»Wachowski brothers, and the meaning of the Matrix«

Dear readers of this post!

I would like to share some of my knowledge regarding the epoch-making movie trilogy, and the Source of Matrix. One day, as I was reading a book in a place, I learn, I came across an interresting coincidence with the Matrix idea. The book is actually about the history of earth, and the human race. Not like the ones you know, this book gives a completely different viewpoint of all that has happened from 72000 years before, to the establishment of our current "civilization". So I was reading something about a pod, or a container, which holds some bodies that are fed intravenously, and kept in stasis liquid. This peticular pod has a "little window" as the book says, which is for the discarding of the lifeless bodies [is this familiar?]. The book doesn't actually reveal any machines that are fed upon the energy of these bodies, but it actually says, that these bodies are held captive to controll the same "soul" it had before it aparently died, and which souls are now in a new, different body. The captive "shell" is like an emitter, when it recieves pain, the reaction is transmitted to the soul (which still has some connection to that body) and the soul will develop some sort of sickness or damage in it's currently used body [you can find some paralelity in the matrix at this part too, when someone dies in the matrix, the effect kills the real person] . This is one of the tools of manipulation which the warders have. As an interresting distraction, the movie has it's own very complex symbolism consisting of many religions, and phylosophies scattered across the trilogy, but there is a pattern of one religion alongside the whole storyline. As I found this out, I began investigating, and as I didn't have to go to far, from where I have been at the second of recognition, I soon found out that the Wachowski brothers are actually followers of that belief. So now I understand most of the Matrix idea, and it's reality. Now I know, that this was a beginning of some very serious shocking aspects we will soon see about what we live in, and how we are USED.

Interrested in what I am talking about? Want to know more?
Try sending a message to this e-mail address: Stupid email address

Or just leave a post here. I will soon come and read.

That's an interesting thought.

I have always had the idea that the RSI represents the soul.

But I don't believe that a dead body still has a connection with a soul. When the material body dies, the soul leaves permanently.

In the worst case scenario we are controlled and used by a higher power. A soul without a body is mostly static energy; this energy can be moved or altered by letting it enter a body in order to achieve experiences; in other words: the energy then becomes dynamic.

That's the same as with the machines. The machines and the Source itself are very static: rational and dull. They need the humans in order to learn from them and have purpose.

But would you be so kind to give us the title of that book?

Hi there!

Please, let me comment some of your thoughts!

Mobil_Ave_Neo wrote:

...But I don't believe that a dead body still has a connection with a soul. When the material body dies, the soul leaves permanently...

If you remember the movie, when Neo falls from the jump program, his (real)body is forced to damage itself (blood is in his mouth, and he's aching) But actually he didn't hurt himself. That is exactly what I was trying to refer to. When the body is not yet dead, it is still eligible to transmit any damage/pain to the body used by the soul at that time. [Virtual body kept in stasis and receiving pain -> Real body developing damage]

Mobil_Ave_Neo wrote:

...In the worst case scenario we are controlled and used by a higher power...

Our belief differs on that part. I believe we are living the worst case scenario (which is called "worst case scenario" for the purpose, to make people think, that is far from their situation) and all this HAS evidence. You just have to look: I will tell you only one example now, take the terrorism. What is the effect: Attack of terrorists -> Fear of people -> Security tightens -> New laws form, to allow even more controll, and grant even more power to the "law enforcers" -> The word "democracy" looses it's meaning, and involves more and more dictatorship -> Every citizen is forced into a political checkmate (complying: less rights, not complying: more terror, or proclaimed an enemy of security, and safety) loosing more and more rights. And finally we will be transformed into this:

I think a soul is what drives this vehicle -our body-, we use in life for many purposes. And when I get out of my car, I just don't feel like I'm a bunch of molecules that is only for the purpose to drive the car. Somehow the idea, that I'm made only to drive cars is not exactly the thing I could accept Do you see where this is pointing to?

gorkie wrote:

If you remember the movie, when Neo falls from the jump program, his (real)body is forced to damage itself (blood is in his mouth, and he's aching) But actually he didn't hurt himself. That is exactly what I was trying to refer to. When the body is not yet dead, it is still eligible to transmit any damage/pain to the body used by the soul at that time. [Virtual body kept in stasis and receiving pain -> Real body developing damage]

Good point. But I always thought this was somehow inflicted on the real body because of the psyche.
You know that feeling don't you? When you think about a certain itch, pain or a sickness, you tend to feel this pain, itch or sickness.
I think the psyche is so powerfull that it also can produce blood somehow in the body. Maybe because of a certain stress overdose? I wouldn't know if it's scientifcly possible, but I personally think that it is possible.

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Our belief differs on that part. I believe we are living the worst case scenario (which is called "worst case scenario" for the purpose, to make people think, that is far from their situation) and all this HAS evidence.

Agreed, but this circle of power and negativism is not created by a higher power. A see a higher power as something spiritual. You talk about humans with higher power, which is a materialistic matter. On this level I agree with you; we are all slaves of some system. But they will never steal your mind entirely; that is if you are strong enough to keep your mind free and honest.

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I think a soul is what drives this vehicle -our body-, we use in life for many purposes. And when I get out of my car, I just don't feel like I'm a bunch of molecules that is only for the purpose to drive the car. Somehow the idea, that I'm made only to drive cars is not exactly the thing I could accept Do you see where this is pointing to?

Not really? That the soul is a living 'creature' with it's own agenda? Tell me more about your ideas please.

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So that about describes the real machines, the massive virus keeping us safe (from freedom), democratic (in which the people are represented by the ones that make decisions about them) and serving our rights (no comment). Recognize them? You might think I was harsh, but take a look yourself. Keep your eyes open!

Good description, but the machines in the Matrix trilogy are not all that; they also represent spiritualism and purity.

The body and soul:

Mobil_Ave_Neo wrote:

Good point. But I always thought this was somehow inflicted on the real body because of the psyche. You know that feeling don't you? When you think about a certain itch, pain or a sickness, you tend to feel this pain, itch or sickness.

The idea is correct! The body can be effected by many of our feelings (itch, pain, sickness and more) Actually if you think negatively of life, your chance of getting sick is higher than those who have a positive attitude. Anyway a body (in stasis), which was ours before, is able to alert us about its conditions, which cause some of the otherwise inexplicable pain and sicknesses.

The mind:

Mobil_Ave_Neo wrote:

I think the psyche is so powerfull that it also can produce blood somehow in the body. Maybe because of a certain stress overdose? I wouldn't know if it's scientifcly possible, but I personally think that it is possible.

Yes, about our powers. Well I've heard and read some interresting facts about those, some I even have recovered. But this is not the correct environment to discuss about that matter To say the least, we all have some powers in our reserves.

The circle of power:

Mobil_Ave_Neo wrote:

Agreed, but this circle of power and negativism is not created by a higher power. A see a higher power as something spiritual. You talk about humans with higher power, which is a materialistic matter. On this level I agree with you; we are all slaves of some system. But they will never steal your mind entirely; that is if you are strong enough to keep your mind free and honest.

Let me first answer the "materialistic matter" phrase. I am far from ever sliping so low as to think materialistic, actually nothing is more distant from me than that state. As for your answer: This circle of power, is deep inside the dark nooks of this society. BUT you are true, the source comes from much higher (correlated to the surface of earth). As I know, this is not a question of coincidence, nor luck. It has nothing to do with the ambition of the members of the "higher circle", this system was ment to be like this, before there where signs of any civilization here. Not by God, not by a superrior being, but as an effect, to some slightly more "global" politics. I'm not trying to suggest, that everything that happens has something to do with the material world, I'm just saying, that the state we are in now (used, curtailed of powers), is the effect of "local"(material world) politics.

About the soul:

Mobil_Ave_Neo wrote:

Not really? That the soul is a living 'creature' with it's own agenda? Tell me more about your ideas please.

Yes, the soul is a living creature. We use a body to paticipate in the game played on this earth, but we are also capable without a body. And as I wrote before, we even have some.. powerfull features, but this still isn't the most adequate environment for this kind of info.

Machines:

Mobil_Ave_Neo wrote:

Good description, but the machines in the Matrix trilogy are not all that; they also represent spiritualism and purity.

Well, ofcourse! Not all programs where like the ones that kept the system operational, naturally I was referring to the ones, that keep us slaves, not the ones helping.

An interresting query from the same aspect.

"System failure"
matrix-explained.com...

Enjoy!

Please exuse me, but I'm not able to reply or answer questions during weekends.

On a quick note, it's seem this post subject is somewhat overlapping "system failure post" making some text redundant.

What i have to say gorkie is little personnal but why do you find our, to know....

I feel that our life, society, family, war, etc. is already a big load. There's still a lot of great things to accomplish....

Maybe your reason are:

curiosity
frustration
life is boring
life is fake
you want to go to zion
you want to meet god/aliens/machines
free your mind and live happily ever after in a better place
all of the above
none of the above
others

To me my life goals and the joy of doing good thing (hopefully at a big level) are sufficient. I don't expect that all justice will be serve but most of it will. I still believe the good of human nature (which simply is to me not to do to others, what you don't want to be done to you) will slowly take over most injustice.

You might says if i was born in the middle of a war, i would think diffently. And yes ,but it would be simply lesser goals.

The matrix movie was good entertainment and fun to analyse. But to prove our world is a matrix....
I'm just curious of your why.

Have a good weekend

in the first matrix movie people were trying to discover the truth.
people would search for what the matrix is.
how is this any different to what is happening on this website?
people know what the matrix is, but they are questioning wether it is real or not

I think like you first one but i've read much more revolted post which made me curious.

-Everything or anybody on this planet is build up from the same basic ultra-microscopic atom-particles. So in essence we are all build out of the same elements, which you can compare to the Matrix code.

-We are living out a program: we are slaves of our instincts, emotions and hormones.

-Choice is most probably an illusion for us. Based upon someone's genetics and the environment someone grows up in, you can predict all the choices someone is going to make and each choice will influence the next one.

-People with epilectic seisures in their brain have experienced very spiritual sensations (simulair to waking up?)

-I recently red an article about an authistic guy who also had an epilectic seisure when he was 3 years old. It seems that one of his brain-hemispheres was damaged, causing the other hemisphere to over-specialize.
The result was that he can do miraculous calculations with his brain. Sometimes he doesn't even have to calculate, he just 'sees' the outcome of many numbers like a vision (comparable to Neo-vision?)

So why could the Matrix not be real? I mean, I am sure that it would not be computer-code, but there are certainly some structures and numbers involved.

what about sophia stewart?
i mean she is black and she is nicknamed the mother of the matrix.
what if the real oracle actually made the first matrix movie, and the architect is trying to sabotage the idea by getting a black woman to try and wreck the idea.
and who could of stopped sophia stewart from getting any further?

oracle = the first matrix movie
the architect or boss machine = matrix 2 and 3 and animatrix

if the matrix was real then the architect is having a go at the oracle. i have seen a website where it looks like the oracle is having a go at agent smith..

dont you think that numerology affects us.
i mean.
9/11 means perfect end of man in biblical numerology.
or perfect judgement.

have a think

Sorry first one, but my reading of sophia stewart is limited. I just know that she claims her idea was stolen or something.
Here is what i didn't understand:

if the real oracle actually made the first matrix movie
(the wachowski were guided by an oracle?)

the architect is trying to sabotage the idea by getting a black woman to try and wreck the idea.
(sophia stewart is wrecking the idea?)

and who could of stopped sophia stewart from getting any further?
(did she want to go further? In which sense?)

oracle = the first matrix movie
the architect or boss machine = matrix 2 and 3 and animatrix
(Is this about choice?)

having a go
(what does it mean)

I'm really confuse and i apoligize (i'm sure i've got it all wrong). I would be glad to give my thought but on the right track.
[/quote]

we are a buch of code and calculation....fine.

Someone is running those code....there we go again.

This sound like religious tought.
If you believe God running the code, your monotheist
If you believe many gods....polytheist
If you beieve aliens (interesting)....Out here in canada we have raeliens
If you believe in machine....(probably there a name, lets call it matrixix)

Tell me do you pray to them. If your a believer why not. In the matrix, they are bad guys. It's saying god (or whatever) is the bad guy keeping humans to a ignorance level. Am i right of your interpretation?

Mr. Rhineheart wrote:

we are a buch of code and calculation....fine.

Not neccesarily a bad situation.
I believe our lives are programmed, like a program from a study-course. We are here to learn and experience so that's why 'God' has created this world.
Offcourse we are materilisticly bound by rules and boundaries, but this is needed. No pain, no game, no experience, no learning.

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Someone is running those code....there we go again.

Not neccesarily. We have freedom to some extend, even when we die our soul can choose to spook around on this earth instead of returning to the Light (comparable to returning to the Source or hiding in the Matrix), but the consequence will be that we will not learn and grow further on.

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This sound like religious tought.

It's more a philosophy. Religion has the tention to tie people up to strict rules. I only believe in one rule: "do whatever you please, just make sure that you don't hurt yourself and especially not hurt others and if you do hurt yourself or others then try to learn from the situation".

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If you believe God running the code, your monotheist If you believe many gods....polytheist

I think I am more of the latter. I don't believe in just one God. The Universe is 'God', so each one of us is a piece of 'God'. We all have to help each other out to make any progress in life. Some enlightened souls, like Jezus, Gandhi, Neo, etc. have more 'rights and power' in the spiritual world so they can help people out.

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If you beieve aliens (interesting)....Out here in canada we have raeliens

I believe that there might be more planets like earth yes with living beings on it with the same purpose: experiences, learning and growing.

Quote:

Tell me do you pray to them. If your a believer why not.

Praying can be done by just thinking out thoughts. If your prayers are good for you or other people on a spiritual way (not materlistic like winning the lottery), then you might have a chance that they are answered by 'higher entities', perhaps even Jezus.

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In the matrix, they are bad guys. It's saying god (or whatever) is the bad guy keeping humans to a ignorance level. Am i right of your interpretation?

Humans are projecting them as bad guys. The humans want to have free will without responsibility for it and thus they are condemmed to circle in a prison that is the Matrix.
The Machines are actually spirits of light (like Neo begins to see them), who want to achieve the best for humanity. Neo is the first one who establishes a new link, new hope.

In short I will explain my 'believes' to you again:

-We are reincarnated souls, here on earth to experience and learn.
-Our lives are planned although we have free will.
-The consequences of free will can be 'good' or 'bad'.
If you make good choices, you will degrade your karma and sooner or later you don't have to return to the 'prison' that is earth.
If you make bad choices, you will build up your karma and then it will take more lifes for you to get out of the 'prison' that is earth.
-If we are willing and open, an 'invisible force' will guide us on the path of getting to 'Know Ourselves'. This is projected by the intuitive Oracle in the movies.

i only know a bit of sophia stewart myself.
i was trying to get you thinking,

you are a clever man

What is this bullshit about this Sophia?

I never really took notice of all that.

The Wachowski's made the whole story! Come on, look at the details that came fully out of their heads. That cannot be stolen. Only ideas for lame action or sci-fi movies are stolen; this is a profound intelligent set of movies which brought us a message.

Hey mobil, do you have a name for your philosophy?

One more question.

Those who are reincarnated, they can't use their past life mistake to learn and get better. Personnally i don't have any memeories of my past life. Unless i was a bird or a dog...?

I hope to see your reply before my vacation or else i'll just be sitting at the beach and think about first one sayings and your stuff and philosophy.

Aloha!

It's a mix of alot of things: esotoric teachings, buddhism, years of logical thinking and years of intuitive thinking/experience.

The esotoric teachings are writings that have been kept away from the 'average people' because one thought that these people would not understand the principles and even more important: they cut alot out of the esotoric teachings, because this way they could hold the people dumb and have power over them.

Recenlty I red that for instance the pope cut the chapter about reincarnation out of the Bible, because otherwise it would make the people 'lazy'. In other words: they cut it out in order to threat people with hell when they sin, which is not true because you have a chance to correct your mistakes in another life. Even Jezus himself seemed to have spoken about reincarnation!

Mr. Rhineheart wrote:

Those who are reincarnated, they can't use their past life mistake to learn and get better. Personnally i don't have any memeories of my past life. Unless i was a bird or a dog...?

You don't have the knowledge about your past lifes in your current life; that is correct.
But that wouldn't be fair I guess. If you know what is expected from you, you can cheat without really learning anything. It is like peeking when you have an exam at school.
They want you to experience the current life as 'the life' and truly learn from it by experience.

The only way, I guess, to 'know' about your past lifes and karma is to listen to your heart/intuition. Like the Oracle, the ultimate guide, says: "the heart never speaks, but you must listen to it to know".

I am not sure about if you can reincarnate as an animal. Some believe this (like in some countries they don't dare to kill an insect, because it could be former family), some don't. I was told that animals have a different type of soul.
Evolutionary it would make more sense that we always come back as humans. The soul is also gender-related: male souls and female souls. So you can never become a female
This might also explain the need for transsexuality: a female soul that entered a male body or vice versa.

Enjoy your vacation sir!

For those of you struggling with the underlying subtext and symbolism associated with the Matrix trilogy I recommend a thorough overview of "The Great Conversation" by Norman Melchert, which, coincidentally was released in its 3rd edition in 1999. Also, there is a wealth of online resources on hellenistic philosophy, Alexander the Great, Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, the synoptic gospels and gnosticism. In particular, review greek influence on matters of sexual reproduction and early mysticism. After all, "Love is a word."

I find it odd that a discussion of that started out about the Matrix we live in just went the usual course of just grazing the surface of the philosophical/religious symbolism and references used by the W. Brothers.

This is not to slight those who like to discuss such things. In fact, continued examination of those things will lead to greater understanding of the Matrix saga (the finger). But the awareness of what the Matrix describes (the object at which the finger points) wil "alter your consciousness"


intell

intell wrote:

I find it odd that a discussion of that started out about the Matrix we live in just went the usual course of just grazing the surface of the philosophical/religious symbolism and references used by the W. Brothers. This is not to slight those who like to discuss such things. In fact, continued examination of those things will lead to greater understanding of the Matrix saga (the finger). But the awareness of what the Matrix describes (the object at which the finger points) wil "alter your consciousness" intell

I find it odd that you would differenciate between the Matrix we live in and the Matrix describing philosophical/religious symbolism.

In myth, religious and philosophical symbolism metaphorically describe aspects of our existence/reality.
If you want to understand the myth and apply it to the "Matrix we live in", you first have to understand its symbolism.
I believe that only by getting a greater understanding of the Matrix saga, can we understand the message its trying to give about "the Matrix we live in".

The greates achievement of the Matrix saga, I believe, is a (quite integral) description of the nature of man.
Understanding the nature of man (-> the cause) imo is a prerequisite to understanding the world of man (-> the effect), esp. the corrupted world created by him,.... and the myth's answer to it.

So, instead of "just grazing the surface of the philosophical/religious symbolism and references" I'd call it "exploring the deeper levels of our superficial existence"...

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I find it odd that you would differenciate between the Matrix we live in and the Matrix describing philosophical/religious symbolism.

I don't necessarily, since descriptions of life are going to be based on a pov and religion is part of a pov.

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In myth, religious and philosophical symbolism metaphorically describe aspects of our existence/reality. If you want to understand the myth and apply it to the "Matrix we live in", you first have to understand its symbolism.

Absolutely.

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I believe that only by getting a greater understanding of the Matrix saga, can we understand the message its trying to give about "the Matrix we live in".

I do too, to an extent, which is why participate in the discussions involving the religious/spiritual correlations perspective...to an extent. And I would be remiss if I didn't say that I really respect and enjoy reading the insights of Inevitability, Lusiada, and some of your recent posts.

That said, the saga is a wake up call to those who know what's going on, a good kung fu/sci fi flick to those who don't, and something to ponder and post on till the end of time for the in-between. (or at least until they join one of the first 2 groups)

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So, instead of "just grazing the surface of the philosophical/religious symbolism and references" I'd call it "exploring the deeper levels of our superficial existence"...

I called the above exchanges that because the movies make an exact correlation with the symbolism in the movies and the myths from which they may have come, possible only to an extent. And this is done on purpose. The posts above yours did not address this fact.

Correcting my posts has become preoccupation with you lately, Tozy. I think I know why and I think you know that I know. But only you know for sure. Now if it because you really are into the conversations - kool and fine. But if it is because of historical reasons (how previous conversations went with me an captpostmod and/or others), then we'll see where that goes, I guess. It doesn't bother me in any way because I post for more than one reason or I don't post at all. Just thought I'd show you I notice.

intell wrote:

That's because you have to realise, just as I did, that freeing your mind involves the deciphering of memes and how they are used in society, not Wachowski message encoding techniques.

Hm,...I wouldn't be aware of what "Wachowski message encoding techniques" were.

But I am convinced that you can way better decipher memes if you come to an understanding of not only "that" they are, but also "why" they are. How can you heal the effect for good, if you leave the cause untouched?

But to deal with the cause, we have first to understand it -> in case of memes, our own nature; or else we will decipher one, and the next will already be waiting at our doorstep.

message wrote:

When it comes to the Real World, sometimes it is better to leave myths where they belong - in books.

Hm,... I consider the Matrix saga to be a modern myth...
I think, art in general has a great potential of deciphering our existence. Myth in particular, has the capability of giving abstract principles a face and thus make them tangible. Thus, I believe, it has some power to hold a mirror in our faces.
-> if you want to understand/change society, start with people, because society is not an abstract principle or system -> we ARE society.

intell wrote:

But, "the Matrix we live in" preexists the Matrix saga...

... but not necessarily the religious and philosophical concepts touched on, or essential to..., the Matrix movies.

intell wrote:

so to illustrate that your above statement is also true in reverse, I will say that a map (the saga) may help you understand more about the territory it describes. But it is only by having some understanding of the territory in the first place, that the directions on the map (the message) can help you get to where you need to be.

Agreed.

intell wrote:

I called the above exchanges that because the movies make an exact correlation with the symbolism in the movies and the myths from which they may have come, possible only to an extent. And this is done on purpose.

Hm,... not sure that I got this right (English is a foreign language to me...), so let me try:

Even if a work of art can just be "grazing the surface of the philosophical/religious symbolism and references",... since it can only serve as a starting point to a development of thought, the interpretation can easily go beyond the surface...

intell wrote:

Correcting my posts has become preoccupation with you lately, Tozy.

To be politically correct, we should begin every sentence with "I believe" or "I think". But I think it goes without saying that we don't state truths here, but just our opinion.
For that reason I wouldn't call it "correcting you posts", but rather "stating my differing opinion on your posts".

I find dissent in a discussion by far more interesting and refreshing than assent, because it has the potential of enriching you with different views, and concretizing your own views by reacting to the challange.
And I certainly don't think that dissent in a factual discussion, is a reason to feel offended.

There were, however, two moments, recently, that I thought you came across as quite arrogant. That was your:

intell wrote:

Quote: infinite as completely boundless, then we dispose of the finite mind's ability to bind it in a definition. In doing so, we negate a finite mind's ability to be this singular God that encompasses that infinity, therefore negating the concept of this God. Pseudointellectualism is so stupid.

and

intell wrote:

Finally someone really understands what the films are about.

...which easily can come across as "you and me understand it; all the others have no clue."

Since I very well remember my beginnings in the forums, when I was very impressed with all these intelligent people, barely daring to express my humble opinion, I know how discouraging statements like the above can be. For that reason I felt like giving you a hint of my opinion on these statements (even though I suspect that my second hint was misunderstood by you as mere Wachowski-fandom; or else you gave me a very elegant and disarming return )
Nothing more and nothing less, since your relationships with other people on this forum are not of my concern.

For that reason,... should you feel criticised in person, not in fact (as in expressing my differing opinion on a topic) in other statements of mine,.... it would be a misunderstanding and I am more than willing to clear this up.

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But I am convinced that you can way better decipher memes if you come to an understanding of not only "that" they are, but also "why" they are. How can you heal the effect for good, if you leave the cause untouched? But to deal with the cause, we have first to understand it -> in case of memes, our own nature; or else we will decipher one, and the next will already be waiting at our doorstep.

That's absolutely right. Deciphering memes involves discovering why they exist. After all, it can be said that the concept of memes is a meme and the concept of a meme as a meme is another meme.

Human nature is indeed an interesting subject. But I'm going OT.

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Hm,... I consider the Matrix saga to be a modern myth... I think, art in general has a great potential of deciphering our existence. Myth in particular, has the capability of giving abstract principles a face and thus make them tangible. Thus, I believe, it has some power to hold a mirror in our faces. -> if you want to understand/change society, start with people, because society is not an abstract principle or system -> we ARE society.

Exaaaaactly. I agree with this, too.

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... but not necessarily the religious and philosophical concepts touched on, or essential to..., the Matrix movies.

Which is why I participate in those discussions to that extent.

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Even if a work of art can just be "grazing the surface of the philosophical/religious symbolism and references",... since it can only serve as a starting point to a development of thought, the interpretation can easily go beyond the surface...

Here, I believe you misunderstood me. I said the above discussions are "grazing", not the films. And there is an inherent danger of viewing the films through the lens of whatever myth(s) one is looking through. The problem with that as some of the above posts show is that you sometimes only see what you're looking for and miss the whole picture that the op was addressing. But this isn't the first time it has happened and it won't be the last.

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I suspect that my second hint was misunderstood by you as mere Wachowski-fandom; or else you gave me a very elegant and disarming return )

You should have suspected the latter. At any rate, I'm glad you liked it.

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To be politically correct, we should begin every sentence with "I believe" or "I think". But I think it goes without saying that we don't state truths here, but just our opinion. For that reason I wouldn't call it "correcting you posts", but rather "stating my differing opinion on your posts".

"Stating your differing opinion on my posts has become a preoccupation with you lately, Tozy."

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I find dissent in a discussion by far more interesting and refreshing than assent, because it has the potential of enriching you with different views, and concretizing your own views by reacting to the challange. And I certainly don't think that dissent in a factual discussion, is a reason to feel offended.

Repeat, I wasn't offended.

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There were, however, two moments, recently, that I thought you came across as quite arrogant...I know how discouraging statements like the above can be. For that reason I felt like giving you a hint of my opinion on these statements

I respect that. But just recognise that it all is just opinion.

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should you feel criticised in person, not in fact (as in expressing my differing opinion on a topic) in other statements of mine,.... it would be a misunderstanding and I am more than willing to clear this up.

k.