»who would want to get out of the matrix?«

CaptPostMod wrote:

Darius could have wrote: The war with Zion is still persistent because it's too late to quit now, the real problem was the machines failed to plan ahead, but that doesn't give you any excuse to insult the Matrix (you live here after all), we're in this now so the Matrix needs your support, your unsupport will accomplish nothing so be helpful and it will end sooner. Nonchalant of human death? This is a war on the terrorists of Zion, who cares who we have to kill to stop them! Sorry to hijack this thread but my patriotism is very dear to me. You haven't hijacked the thread, just answered the question. Your answer is (obviously) "Darius does not want to leave the Matrix." It's kewl. ps. For all government spooks reading this (hi Mr.NSA), I love America. It's great here. Ours is definitely the best theocratic military dictatorship money can buy. Thanks for turning us into such a great country. Praise Jeezis! amazon.com...

[sniffles] Would I be considered a gov spook? [puts on Agent Smith sunglasses and attempts to do the moonwalk] LoL! I love America too. Yes there are people in the gov that are corrupt....lots of ppl but it is not as much as other conteries. Look at Mexico, Cuba, and oh there are many countries.

AgentDragon: EU is one of them.

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Does anyone feel the world is very unreal sometimes? We might not live in a matrix, but there is definitely something more, a deeper meaning than this. The truth is out there. It's looking for you. And it will find you, if you want it to.

Well, have someone explain why sometimes when listening to a piece of music, you feel like you're hovering mid-air, or so consumed by its majesty that it feels like an out-of-body experience, how it can so deeply manipulate your emotions just by upping the frequency of a mathematical figure called a half-tone by a few notches. Have someone explain why a child can learn the most complex rules of grammar by the age of 2. Have someone explain why you would do anything simply to make someone else happy. Conversely, have someone explain why most people on earth feel it is morally wrong to murder. There's something deeper going on here, make no mistake. How deep does the rabbit hole go?

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Well, have someone explain why sometimes when listening to a piece of music, you feel like you're hovering mid-air, or so consumed by its majesty that it feels like an out-of-body experience, how it can so deeply manipulate your emotions just by upping the frequency of a mathematical figure called a half-tone by a few notches. Have someone explain why a child can learn the most complex rules of grammar by the age of 2. Have someone explain why you would do anything simply to make someone else happy. Conversely, have someone explain why most people on earth feel it is morally wrong to murder. There's something deeper going on here, make no mistake. How deep does the rabbit hole go?

The Power of Memes!

indeed, intell. In the past fifty years, the question that has gone more scrutinized by experts on pragmatic, scientific, and spiritual bases, and yet unanswered: Do we create music, or is music an entity independent, waiting for us to discover it? Same question is asked concerning language, as well as the body's physical functions, and also the concepts of love. Perhaps other areas as well. To me the answer is pretty deep in the rabbit hole -- some may disagree, but the profound genius of all these fields will ever have me convinced that there's a lot more to all of them than we know.

Some question if it's something our minds create and are not yet capable of understanding, or if there is an eternal order of the universe (the original Greek meaning behind the word "logos" incidentally) where a higher being or beings mold such concepts at a higher level -- that we can understand a small portion of them in a less-intelligent state, fed truth in small portions, so to speak. I believe as we study them out, our intellects come nearer, little by little, to their true nature, and their source. So yeah, in this light, one could easily compare us to being inside a matrix of sorts, having the wool pulled over our eyes, but for good purposes -- simply because most people are not ready to see it, not ready to be "unplugged". Those who ready themselves will be. The truth will find us, if we want it to...

You better believe it! Lol!

Oracle: "You weren't ready to know."
Neo: "And who decided that?"
Oracle: "You know who." *gestures to the "Temet Nosce" sign.
Neo: *looks at the sign and then down* "I did."

Five senses are not enough to comprehend what's out there.

Marsoullis wrote:

indeed, intell. In the past fifty years, the question that has gone more scrutinized by experts on pragmatic, scientific, and spiritual bases, and yet unanswered: Do we create music, or is music an entity independent, waiting for us to discover it? Same question is asked concerning language, as well as the body's physical functions, and also the concepts of love. Perhaps other areas as well. To me the answer is pretty deep in the rabbit hole -- some may disagree, but the profound genius of all these fields will ever have me convinced that there's a lot more to all of them than we know. Some question if it's something our minds create and are not yet capable of understanding, or if there is an eternal order of the universe (the original Greek meaning behind the word "logos" incidentally) where a higher being or beings mold such concepts at a higher level -- that we can understand a small portion of them in a less-intelligent state, fed truth in small portions, so to speak. I believe as we study them out, our intellects come nearer, little by little, to their true nature, and their source. So yeah, in this light, one could easily compare us to being inside a matrix of sorts, having the wool pulled over our eyes, but for good purposes -- simply because most people are not ready to see it, not ready to be "unplugged". Those who ready themselves will be. The truth will find us, if we want it to...

You make a very interesting point. While I'd like to believe that music is an art, a malleable force, I have no way of knowing do I? With infinite time, infinite things will happen. It reminds me of the Architect/Oracle, while my life is predetermined, they already know the choices I will make and has\ve in a sense seen the future. If you like to think God created the world, and I hope you do, He gave us our freewill but to think He wouldn't know what we dould do is crazy. God knows all the variables so to speak. God didn't tell me that tomorrow I'll wake up and eat Corn Flakes for Breakfast, b ut He knew when he created evrything that it would all lead up to that, Corn Flakes...

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You probably won't read this, or atleast take it seriosuly, but I'm writing it anyway. The only "illegal" bill you could be reffering to would be the Patriot Act signed on the 26th. How it led to mindless deaths is beyond me. My ignorance huh? Maybe that's why I asked, but you decided instead to be high and mighty and blow me off. At this point I can only take your post to mean: "Crap he totally made me look dumb. Oh yeah, you're ugly and your mother dresses you funny, BAM!" Try to stick to actual reasoning and not cleverly concealed insults, if you don't mind.

Bro, just drop it lol! And next time, don't sheepishly write me some private message -- this is forum discussion, open to everyone. It wasn't your ignorance I blew off -- it was your manipulating what I said to something totally off-key, and your ridiculous defensiveness. Don't expect anyone to respond to you if you're going to put words in their mouth. Relax a moment. Breathe deep if it helps. Then, if you have questions, by all means ask away, without the attitude. I promise you'll get all the answers you want in these forums.

Meanwhile your latest point here is definitely good, and true I believe. I think on those same terms as to God's foreknowledge of our lives. It's my view that he created music just as he created love, and that nothing down here is done without purpose, for good or for evil.

I've said it before and I'll say it again -- the beauty of this story is it being an apocalyptic archetype. I don't consider it as black and white as the war between Michael and Satan -- the machines to me are not nearly always necessarily the "bad guys" nor the programs, obviously. But it's a war at what seems the end of the world. That is the timeless tale we all should get used to understanding -- I'm one who foresees such world wars occurring in the near future (especially if the GOVERNMENT keeps going the way it's going -- notice I said nothing about the wonderful land of America, dearest Darius ).

George Dubya = Merv's twin brother

Marsoullis wrote:

I don't consider it as black and white as the war between Michael and Satan -- the machines to me are not nearly always necessarily the "bad guys"....

Who said Satan was always necessarily the bad guy? When the revolution in the Matrix began, machines were Angels and humanity were the ones rebeling against the great Architect's design. Which side of the war between God and Satan do you think the Zionites are on?

This demonstrates the danger of trying to fit too much of a philosophy or religion into the trilogy. If it doesn't fit, you must just quit. Or something like that

intell wrote:

This demonstrates the danger of trying to fit too much of a philosophy or religion into the trilogy. If it doesn't fit, you must just quit. Or something like that

Sorry, missed that. What is "This?"

CaptPostMod wrote:

intell wrote: This demonstrates the danger of trying to fit too much of a philosophy or religion into the trilogy. If it doesn't fit, you must just quit. Or something like that Sorry, missed that. What is "This?"

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Who said Satan was always necessarily the bad guy? When the revolution in the Matrix began, machines were Angels and humanity were the ones rebeling against the great Architect's design. Which side of the war between God and Satan do you think the Zionites are on?

And how does it "demonstrate the danger of trying to fit too much of a philosophy or religion into the trilogy?" It's interrogative, not demonstrative.

Let's say, "it is inadvertantly demonstative."

hehehe

Then it is inadvertantly demonstrating the wrong thing I'm not trying to fit anything into the Matrix, actually I was going the opposite direction. Taking something out of the Matrix.

Marsoullis wrote:

I don't consider it as black and white as the war between Michael and Satan.

To write something actually demonstrative- the war between Michael and Satan isn't black and white. The trilogy demonstrates time and again that considering one side or the other in any conflict as the "evil" side is not an advisable thing. And from "Paradise Lost" to "For Love of Evil" Satan/Lucifer/The Devil has been given more than a simple role as "the bad guy." Similiarly from Psalms 78:49 to "The Amber Spyglass," Angels have been given more than a simple role as "the good guys."

ps. Just for fun, check out- en.wikipedia.org...

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Who said Satan was always necessarily the bad guy? When the revolution in the Matrix began, machines were Angels and humanity were the ones rebeling against the great Architect's design. Which side of the war between God and Satan do you think the Zionites are on?

It's a good point made. The machines are originally cut out to be the bad guys in M1, but as we gain more intelligence I don't really make a comparison there. The humans in this case are more at fault than the machines, in my view. Morpheus uses the pronoun "we" when describing the people's pride puffed up in their hearts as they gave birth to AI. The machines simply wanted a piece of the pie and ended up warring to get it. I'd call theirs more a tactic of survival than one of aggression.

You're right however. Isaiah 14:12-17 makes it clear that Satan was not always a bad guy. He was clearly an angel with more influence than most any among God's angels and children. Revelation 12:3,4,& 7, indicate the same, and both depict his rebellion against God and his influencing miriads of people to follow him and become his angels.

I agree with you in that we can make parallels and comparisons where they are appropriate, but never to make the whole thing to be a perfectly-typological story to that of the apocalypse.[/quote]

Capt... wrote:

Then it is inadvertantly demonstrating the wrong thing I'm not trying to fit anything into the Matrix, actually I was going the opposite direction. Taking something out of the Matrix.

I think we might be on the same sheet of music, but just not the same verse.

Marsoullis wrote:

I agree with you in that we can make parallels and comparisons where they are appropriate, but never to make the whole thing to be a perfectly-typological story to that of the apocalypse.

...Or to any other mythological/philosophical source. This is what I'm basically saying. But, uh oh, he thought you said it. (Huh?) lol

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To write something actually demonstrative- the war between Michael and Satan isn't black and white. The trilogy demonstrates time and again that considering one side or the other in any conflict as the "evil" side is not an advisable thing.

Nah. Really?

Stupid question:
When I make a quote, it just says "quote". How did you make it says: "Marsoulllis wrote"?

<quote="Marsoullis"></quote>

Replace the <> with [] and frame your quote with the above tags. The "wrote" part is automatically entered, so all you have to do is fill in the quotes with whomever you are quoting.

edit- Helpful tip. If you like the formatting someone else has done in a post (an emoticon or enlarged text for example), hit the quote button on their post. In the reply box that comes up you can see their tags and find out how they made their post look so nifty.

Sweet -- merci, danke, gracias, shi shi nin, obrigado, evharistw, or thanks (take your pick, depending on where you're from)

I had been trying for a long time to understand how to make my type this size. grazie...thx...etc.