»who would want to get out of the matrix?«

?

i wouldn't, have you seen how badly devopled Zion is

Anyone that loves truth.

I wud love to get out this matrix,
I see no point in these lies and cover up
of the fake word.

Shadow

Coventry

Isn't that the city Churchill knew was going to be bombed from cracking Enigma? Collosus would be one of the great grandfathers of THE MATRIX.

psikeyhackr

Newsflash: Matrix is FICTIONAL! Thank you, and have a good night..

Matrix_rulzz wrote:

Newsflash: Matrix is FICTIONAL! Thank you, and have a good night..

That explains why Morpheus won't answer my phone calls and why all those times I jumped off rooftops I just fell on my face. Thanks, you'vre really saved me a lot of trouble.

What about the bum sleeping in the subway that turned into Smith?

Couldn't Zion be better for him?

But then maybe he would just be a bum in Zion.

psik

to see and know the truth before i die, would be wonderful. to die in the realy world would be better ten dieing in this nural simulated prision.

Neo1 wrote:

to see and know the truth before i die, would be wonderful. to die in the realy world would be better ten dieing in this nural simulated prision.

Well said. I completely agree.

It's better to die free than in chains.

exsactly

The world is always more or less real anyway

Quote:

to see and know the truth before i die, would be wonderful. to die in the realy world would be better ten dieing in this nural simulated prision.

Yea that'd be great!
I'd give anything to know the truth. even if it would be only for one minit and i'd die after.

To know the truth you must risk everthing.

Darius wrote:

That explains why Morpheus won't answer my phone calls and why all those times I jumped off rooftops I just fell on my face. Thanks, you'vre really saved me a lot of trouble.

This may seam stupid but I don't care how I die... wouldn't really matter that much lol

And I would want to be unplugged... only to learn all that martial arts... re-enter the matrix... and walk into my highschool.

If we examine the Matrix properly, we see it is a complete waste of time, as, in fact, leaving the Matrix is an entirely distasteful option. The film would be a lot shorter if the protagonists were not so beef-headed.

Berklian Idealist wrote:

If we examine the Matrix properly, we see it is a complete waste of time, as, in fact, leaving the Matrix is an entirely distasteful option. The film would be a lot shorter if the protagonists were not so beef-headed.

I agree, I'd much rather go on living a normal life than having to go live in crap city and try to force my belief of a better world on everyone, even those who disagree. What if after everyone s freed fromt eh Matrix it truns out most of them would of rather stayed there? they didn't make you reenter did they? Why do you have to bother them? But, kungfu is bad ass.

but if you knew that you were living a life of control, a prisioner would you still want to live that life, to die a prisioner or would you rather be free.

Neo1: exactly.

djlartzu wrote:

I'd give anything to know the truth. even if it would be only for one minit and i'd die after.

Do you think Zion is the truth?

Neo1 wrote:

but if you knew that you were living a life of control, a prisioner would you still want to live that life, to die a prisioner or would you rather be free.

Do you think people in Zion are free?

If we speak in Matrix,....Zion, to me, is not much more than the realisation that we are deluded.
When you transcend the Matrix, you are robbed of the illusion ("ignorance is bliss"), but you get a life in cold and darkness as a reward. Zion is a cage of a different quality.

To know the truth, and to be free,... you would have to walk Neo's path to the end.

...

Look, the ridiculous mistake made about "truth" is that truth in reality is whatever we as individuals make of it -- it is mostly unaffected by our surroundings. Imagine one day you're approached by Morpheus, who tells you you're being duped in a dream world. I'd have to respond to him, Sir, I think, therefore I am. The people unknowingly jacked into the matrix, once it was programmed to function as a believable world functions, were robbed of no individuality nor identity (we know this because those who escape retain the person they were when inside). Nor are they robbed of autonomous thought and the will to act upon it. Unless you're in the wrong place at the wrong time, your life won't be interrupted by agents, rebels, and programs, etc.

Machines use humans as their power supply (which ironically was the fault of the humans responsible for Operation: Dark Storm) -- even this may be looked upon as justifiable -- as survival of the fittest. Humans created AI, and according to Morpheus, it was through the egotism of some men that AI got the upper hand -- humanity had no choice but to accept the consequences. Now, considering our race's situation inside the matrix, I'd say things could've turned out a lot worse for 'em. The machines could've apparently annihilated humanity altogether and accepted other levels of survival.

Comes down to choice, and the problem is not choice in this matter. Inside or out of the matrix, we are free to think and choose, according to our situations therein. The machines created an invisible cage for humans, but how is that different from the world as we know it? Do they know it? Is one's mind any less functional when jacked into the matrix? Were the opportunities of life any worse inside the matrix? Not remotely. So then, who could blame Cypher for wishing he'd taken the blue pill. Where causality goes, it sure seemed to have a more pleasant effect than the alternative.

It'd have been nice if man was never confronted by such a dilemma, but like all dilemmas, wishing they had never happened doesn't affect them.

P.S. I hope you idealists who talk about chains and prisons and control are extra-terrestrials of a higher way of life. The machines granted a lot more options to humans than any government on earth. Would you please take us to your leader? (specially us Americans...)

Marsoullis wrote:

Look, the ridiculous mistake made about "truth" is that truth in reality is whatever we as individuals make of it .

I wouldn't call that truth, but perspective.
Or else you would have to give "Jews need to be destroyed" (Hitler), "the western world is evil" (Osama)... the credit of being the truth...

Marsoullis wrote:

I'd have to respond to him, Sir, I think, therefore I am.

Could you also tell him: "I think, therefore I know exactly who and what I am"?

Marsoullis wrote:

The people unknowingly jacked into the matrix, once it was programmed to function as a believable world functions, were robbed of no individuality nor identity (we know this because those who escape retain the person they were when inside).

Are you saying that Neo - prior and past being unplugged from the Matrix - has the same identity, the same thought, the same will?
What about the bending and breaking of the rules?

Marsoullis wrote:

Nor are they robbed of autonomous thought and the will to act upon it. Unless you're in the wrong place at the wrong time, your life won't be interrupted by agents, rebels, and programs, etc.

Morpheus: You're here because you know something. What you know you can't explain. But you feel it. You've felt it your entire life. That there's something wrong with the world. You don't know what it is but it's there, like a splinter in your mind driving you mad. It is this feeling that has brought you to me.

Marsoullis wrote:

but how is that different from the world as we know it?

The Matrix is a representation of the world as we know it.
If you don't understand it literally, but as an allegory for a condition (world, society, collect/individual consciousness,... whatever you choose) you may grow a different perspective on the meaning of "cage" and "freedom", as well as on the choice made to transcend the Matrix.

Marsoullis wrote:

Comes down to choice, and the problem is not choice in this matter. Inside or out of the matrix, we are free to think and choose, according to our situations therein.

"free" and "according to our situation" is a contradiction to me.

Marsoullis wrote:

Do they know it?

Nope, that's why they are not free, but caught in their delusion, because...

Marsoullis wrote:

Is one's mind any less functional when jacked into the matrix?

It's not a matter of the functioning of the mind. Rather it's a matter of knowledge and the ability to choose, which is highly dependent on knowledge:
How can a woman, who has grown up in a society where female circumcision (news.bbc.co.uk...) is "normal" and "necessary", know that it is not, and choose not to be mutilated? -> Her mind does function normally; she just doesn't know better and thus has no choice -> her society is her Matrix.

Neo1 wrote:

but if you knew that you were living a life of control, a prisioner would you still want to live that life, to die a prisioner or would you rather be free.

You aren't a prisoner, you have to consider the practicalities of the situation. The Matrix is essentially a benign situation; as Cypher said: Ignorance is bliss. The Matrix is an entirely preferential situation.