»Neo's dream/Stopping Trinity's fall«

Upon watching M2 at home for the first time I couldn't help but notice a detail from Neo's dream of Trinity falling, and being shot by the agent. In the opening scene the camera cuts away then back as we see what is presumed to be Trinity smash into a car. At the end when Neo saves Trinity the agent can be seen smashing into the car in the exact same manner. This leads me to believe that the Neo's dream also showed the agent hitting the car, hence the cut away to give the illusion that it is Trinity, and there fore all that is happening is planned and governed by the machine's. It is not unpredicted that Neo chooses the left door and saves Trinity.

Interesting observation. Neo didn't see himself rescueing Trinity.

this all points back to the oracle's statement, "you can't see past the choices you don't understand." neo couldn't see himself rescuing Trinity because he couldn't yet understand the choice of the left door which led back to her rescue.

it is a cool observation, that somehow, indeed, "You've already made the choice, Neo. You just don't understand why you made it."

That concept in the movie really blows my mind. how could he have already made a choice? are the W's using that concept as a statement about all reality, or is having already made all these choices a product of programming and the matrix?

You are so right. Neo dreams of Trinity falling because he has experienced it over and over again. The machines know this and need him to continue this cycle of "choosing" to save Trinity over and over. It all an effort (through skillful manipulation of neo's human tendencies) to blind Neo from the truth.

0x587e1a2c wrote:

this all points back to the oracle's statement, "you can't see past the choices you don't understand." neo couldn't see himself rescuing Trinity because he couldn't yet understand the choice of the left door which led back to her rescue.

He cannot see Trinity, but he sees the agent crashing into the car (which comes AFTER Trinity)?

Some other things to notice about the dream:

The Opening Neo Dream Sequence
Matrix characters form to puchclock. Guards in architect building switching shifts. Trinity motorcycle bomb fight thing. Trinity says "I'm in!" into the cel phone. Trinity turns to matrix characters. --CUT-- Then Trinity in fight scenes about ready to jump out of window and fall and being shot by agent.

So, what happens in that CUT space. I'll tell you.

That cut space is filled later by Neo, Morpheus, and KeyMaster encountering Agent Smith in the Doory Hallway when he says. "This is a dead end". Then some fighting. Then the KeyMaster opens the door. KeyMaster dies. Morpheus goes his way. Neo goes his to the door to the architect. Now the architect sequence. This is intercut with what happens on Trinity's solo (and forbidden by Neo) mission. Basically a lot of fighting. Neo gets to see this on the many screens in the architect room when the architect mentions trinity. Soon after seeing this he chooses the door and walks through it. This is the end of that cut space.

Now we see again the sequence of Trinity falling out of the window. Only this time, unlike in Neo's dream. He gets to save her. We have to presume Neo interprets his dream as the death of Trinity else why would he ask her not to get involved. But the point here is really not about that. The point is about the fact that the ONE dreams about what happens to Trinity, something really only the architect and the Matrix itself can see, yet he DOESN'T dream about what actually involves himself, that being the conversation with the architect. It is completely left out of his dream which starts the beginning of the movie.

This leads me to a new question about dreaming in the world that contains Zion. For all intents and purposes there is no dreaming in the world that contains Zion. The "zion world", being the second matrix, is a world programmed to be the stuff of stark reality. The inhabitants of the Zion world all think they have awoken from the dream that is the matrix and all think they are aware that their farmed brothers and sisters continue to live on the dream that is the matrix that they have not yet awoken from. So then we have to presume that they do not dream in the Zion world because they have been all programmed not to dream. They simply breathe, eat, drink, love and fight and all thinking that theirs is the TRUE reality. ALL SAVE FOR NEO.

Neo is the only one in the Zion world who dreams. It is a dream he will wake up from in M3.

If Neo was the only One who dreamed, then why would Morpheus bother making references to dreaming?

Methinks you have the MwM theory pulled over your eyes.

IF the MwM theory is correct, it will be in a refreshing way that no one is going to guess, because the only way they would use that obvious and tired plotline, is if they could somehow spin it to actually make it BETTER than any other idea that they had.

MwM is very unsatisfying any way you slice it. Just because STUPID people think that M2 was disappointing, doesn't mean that the W-Bros will Purposefully make a disappointing ending.

When he explains the dream to the Oracle, she is very keen on how he sees the outcome of events as to whether Trinity dies.

For crying out loud, Trinity is falling out a sky scraper and is shot mid air, then apparently smashes down on the car.

But when asked if she dies, Neo says "I dont know". Most people would say, oh yeah, she's dead, but neo cant accept what he sees in the dream. Right there is a clear indication that he already had made the choice to save her.

And the Oracle seems pleased: "Youve made a believer out of me" she says.

The other thing I noticed about this scene is that there is only one car on the road. The rest of the time, nothing. What's the odds eh?

Oh and after reading this thread I went and did a frame by frame to see if there's a hint of who it is. And there is.

Just before the impact, you can see the sillouette which definately matches one of the two characters' last seen position.

I won't spoil it and say which one.

But his (or her, it could be a her) arm is in the car before the roof is. (or on the far side, granted)

This whole "Trinity falling" scene is totally dreamy as I mention at

knnknn wrote:

This whole "Trinity falling" scene is totally dreamy as I mention at matrix-explained.com... Could support that Neo didn't make it out of the Architects galactic room

Yeah what is that all about when he goes through the door and the audience gets to see the stars and outer space?!

The double secret probation ending has the whole thing done as Aliens in the end, A.I. style, since that ending was so boss.
But, that is just another trick before the Final 5 minutes where it is revealed that Neo is actually Tom Cruise in Vanilla Sky, and that is who he woke up as in the end of Vanilla Sky, and these have just been a surprise sequel to that movie, and now Tom has to wake up again in a world where he gets paid more than Keanu, which is a system that his Scientologist brain can actually accept.

Hank wrote:

Upon watching M2 at home for the first time I couldn't help but notice a detail from Neo's dream of Trinity falling, and being shot by the agent. In the opening scene the camera cuts away then back as we see what is presumed to be Trinity smash into a car. At the end when Neo saves Trinity the agent can be seen smashing into the car in the exact same manner. This leads me to believe that the Neo's dream also showed the agent hitting the car, hence the cut away to give the illusion that it is Trinity, and there fore all that is happening is planned and governed by the machine's. It is not unpredicted that Neo chooses the left door and saves Trinity.

I posted somewhere else something that might break this idea. If Oracle is working to the system, then the candy given to neo (right before the burly brown) is a probe to scan his dreams, and the facts are MODELLED to match exactly newo has spontaneously dreamed.

GSW wrote:

Yeah what is that all about when he goes through the door and the audience gets to see the stars and outer space?!

Please post this as new different thread in forum "Ask your questions here"

Strav wrote:

I posted somewhere else something that might break this idea. If Oracle is working to the system, then the candy given to neo (right before the burly brown) is a probe to scan his dreams, and the facts are MODELLED to match exactly newo has spontaneously dreamed.

Hmm, intersting. The red candy is a mystery, too

knnknn wrote:

Hmm, intersting. The red candy is a mystery, too

... and ...., it is pretty strange how the Architet is so confident about trinity entering the matrix. and more. If you watch carefully, the monitors show trinity falling BEFORE she indeed falls. How ? The only explanations is that Neo's dreams have been scanned. And then that was USED to control his decision (and choose left door)

but how can the little dream scanning candy leave the matrix and scan his dreams in the real world then transmit them back to 01? also... how would they know that trinity would jump out that window macs blazing... she could end up trying to stand her ground or somthing...

yup... I also beleive everything was already planned and architect says so:

Architect: There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However, the relevant issue is whether or not you are ready to accept the responsibility of the death of every human being on this world. It is interesting, reading your reactions. Your 5 predecessors were, by design, based on a similar predication - a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the One. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific - vis a vis love.

NOTE: The machine suspected Neo's predecessors would react in a different way and they had a "bond" developed IN THE REAL world with people, as oppose to Neo who has a bond far more specific "Trinity"
Also why did the agent have to jump off the window.... didn't he think trinity wouldn't just die when she fell down... nope he had to jump to shoot her otherwise the architect speech wouldn't have made any sense. "she IS going to die" and there's nothing you can do about it."
Remember the Architect screens show everything even scenes from Neo in the real world. ALSO how could the Architect "sense" the chemical precussors in Neo's body if he wasn't hooked up to the Matrix...
SO far we've assumed when you jack/hack into the matrix your INPUT/OUPUT carriers are no longer active so the machines can't find you unless THEY know (by searching) the LINE you're using to hack into the Matrix"

I could ramble on and on... but this is just a theory we'll have answers soon

ALSO if Neo was meant to take ther left door.
-There's a purpose for Neo "Destroying Smith"
The Machines are already aware of what Smith is going to do.
-Smith is a plan of the Matrix.
possible, thought the dialogue suggests otherwise.
etc etc etc

i figured that out the second time i saw it...

Strav wrote:

If Oracle is working to the system, then the candy given to neo (right before the burly brown) is a probe to scan his dreams...

You know what is interesting.... The Oracle gives Neo another Red Candy in Revolutions! whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com...

Take a look at the new pictures on

Strav wrote:

... and ...., it is pretty strange how the Architet is so confident about trinity entering the matrix. and more. If you watch carefully, the monitors show trinity falling BEFORE she indeed falls. How ? The only explanations is that Neo's dreams have been scanned. And then that was USED to control his decision (and choose left door)

Now THAT, isn't a proof for anything. Sorry, but as you know the Oracle knows the future, too. The system just calculates it. And since Trinity's future is only a second away, this is really no problem.

Yeah, the amount of data the Architect has at his "fingertips" is staggering.
Considering the amount of programs "running all over the place," the Architect is probably hooked up to some amazing computers that know every nuance of the cause and effect flow in the Matrix.
As for Neo in the Real World, the machines probably made Zion, so the Architect and the other AI executives must have access to hidden cameras everywhere, probably in their ships, too.