»HOW CAN A SENTINEL PASS THROUGH NEO«

yes that's right. I have been asking the question far and wide with un-acceptable answers. How is it possible for a sentinel to go through the ship. I even paused it on a part of the scene where you actually see the sentinel PHYSICALLY pass through the ship.

This question has been discussed a million times.

We see it in Neo's 'vision'.

Neo's mind is still connected/focused to/on the Source(-network). The Sentinel's 'soul' which is build out of energy/light uses it's last breathe to attack Neo physically.

It is just like with hearing. Most animals hear much more frequencies than humans. So a particular sound that we don't hear, can be horrible for some animals.

Neo has also tapped into a new frequency. Trinity and others cannot sense it, but Neo can; so he is also vulnerable to it.

I agree with Mobil_Ave_Neo

It is similar to how a bat percieves the world by sound. The bat emits a high frequency sound wave and constructs a mental image of it's surroundings based on the reflection of the waves.

In a spherical room, the bat would keep flying into the walls, because it's system can't understand that particular shape and reflection pattern.

Neo's outer sense is completely unique, literally like another sense. I once described it accurately by using an analogy to blind people.

If someone is born blind, it is impossible to describe what colours are. They don't understand, apart from on a mere scientific level, after being taught how the eye works. Neo says to Trinity, "I can feel them" but this isn't enough for anyone else to understand. Only Neo really knows what it is like, because he is the only One who can experience it.

It brings up an interesting question though: Do all Sentinals have souls?

And if so, why would they willingly sacrifice themselves in the way we see so often in the trilogy?

I like the way Mobil_Ave_Neo says "only he can experience it, so only he is affected by it"

Thinking of it this way makes a lot of sense. You can also see that Sentinal on the windshield when they are flying up to the sky later on.

you sure on that jones? pretty sure if you slow it down frame by frame that you see the physical shell, or the actual sentinel bounce right off the windshield of the ship.

His "spirit/energy" however continues to follow it's predicted trajectory or vector. You could see this spiritually, or if that doesn't fly with you, you can see it as the slow dissipation of energy moving in the direction it had previously calculated.

Unfortunately I don't have the DVD with me and can't check this. But I remember seeing sentinel "legs" on the windshield when they were heading to the sky.

Yes, I'm having withdrawals from not watching a Matrix film in nearly a week....

I still don't understand to this day the answer to that question. I've read these posts but I'm still also wondering how the Sentinal went through his body. Mobil_Ave_Neo kinda explains sorta like those whistles that are silent to humans but annoys they shit out of dogs. So I guess that it would mean that the Sentinal attacked Neo's soul. (Or something like that?)

think of it as an energy body... Neo felt it go through him...

I don't see it as attacking his soul, more just that particular machines conciousness having an "out of body(machine)" experience upon death. It couldn't hurt Neo, it probably just felt a little weird... and his reaction to it kind of supports that lol. Trin had to catch him.

I'll take a stab at it.

I have studied this scene. This question has been asked many times.

The Sentinal definitely does not physically pass through the ship. It crashes into the windshield and the windshield cracks and leaves a large hole in it. The hole is not big enough for a Sentinal to go through.

I like to think of it like this....

Every machine containes AI...a program. When a program is no longer needed and it's purpose is obsolete, it must return to the source, unless of course it chooses to exile.

As we know, Neo has a connection to the source. He is a part of the source.

When that sentinal destroyed itself by slamming into the Logo's, the program within it used Neo to return to the source. The sentinals light/spirit/program passed through Neo.

I belive this happens everytime a sentinal, or any machine with AI for that matter, is destroyed. It passes through something connected to the source, to return to the source. As mentioned in previous post's, this is seen through "Neo vision".


It's definitely not the spiritual explanation, but I belive that is what is happening here.

That is the best explanation I've heard of this scene here. Don't know if it's 100% correct but I certainly have a better understanding of it when it's explained like that.

Yes that's a quite good addition.

When a Sentinel dies it cannot use it's hardware (the little satellite) anymore in order to connect to the Source.

So maybe it uses other living Sentinels to return it's 'soul' to the Source.
But this time Neo was closest to the Sentinel, so maybe it did indeed use him to return to the Source.

This could also explain why Neo talks about only four Sentinels instead of five at the Oracle. Maybe the four Sentinels all used the fifth one in order to return to the Source. This was abit too much for this poor Sentinel and he also died down.

But this makes me wonder what happened to the program Smith when Bane was killed. There you see the light scatter and die down; it doesn't go anywhere.

Wow...Freud, help us!


It´s as simple as this: Neo´s vision is like the HUD of a videogame, the sentinel is a NPC wich is not rendered (it´s not real because neo´s HUD vision sees "IMAGES" of the real things, not the real things), because it´s not SOLID, not rendered, the sentinel can pass through the "PLAYER" (NEO), even wen the bitch really hits the cockpit and bounces in the air like a tennis ball.

What we see is the image that neo sees, not the real situation...

Remember the "lobotomy" that NEO done to Vain. There we could see the poor SOAB´s head blown into pieces, and then, lying on the floor, the Vain´s head intact, well, with a borehole as big as my fist but INTACT.

And...how Neo is capable of destroying 4 sentinels with his hands?, just think it, he has the power of construct-destruct or modify Matrix acording at his will, he is capable of have left some of his inner code into the MATRIX code, working within its guts letting him have the powers he have without his active thought ( so he cannot kick the ugly SOAB who workrd for Merovingio driving the subway train, because that environment is off-line of MATRIX , and there´s offline because there could be information and program traffic without being disturbed by the agents), so there will be a part of his virtual "other-him" capable of search for the code wich controls that sentinels (even the TOW Bombs, remember the last flight of the Logoss) digging into the MACHINE´s central computer (remember that MATRIX is generated there)and then trigger the "OVERLOAD_ENERGY" instruction that blows up that four bitches before they destroy its main working code provider, NEO ( he tries to preserve the original code, so, when this other NEO noticed the warning of the Sentinels that want to kill a human scaped from a ship wich description, via sentinel´s scanners, is the one of the Nebuchadnezzar, he decides to do something to stop that machines...the simplest of the simplest)

And , why he falls into a coma after this?, most simple impossible, remember what happen with the ones plugged in matrix or with the ones who get plugged to go there? , well, Neo did an auto connection trying to stop that sentinels via program CODE (well, he tries to kill them as he could do it with a hand-impossition), I mean that, in his mind he´s doing a hand-destroying- movement and the bionic spine cord implants translate it into code, but, to make it work that bionic mechanism has to disconnect the Brain´s Central Neural System as it do when the PLUG is in it to do it as if it was connected to use and translate the MATRIX code...and, so NEO fells into unconsciousness because there´s no plug wich can re-connect him after this, because is an inner process ( his brain alpha and beta waves are if like he´s connected...remember what the doctor girl says to Trinity in the Mjolnir). Ah!, and of course, what NEO ignored is that what he did was useless, the real destroyer was his other NEO, the CODE of NEO working in MATRIX, but, because that code has the same characteristics (personality, phenotype, etc..)the oracle didn´t say nothing to him when he says that he destroyed 4 sentinels witht his will .


All very simple...

Quote:

This could also explain why Neo talks about only four Sentinels instead of five at the Oracle. Maybe the four Sentinels all used the fifth one in order to return to the Source. This was abit too much for this poor Sentinel and he also died down.

Possibly.

I also do not think it was a mistake. It wouldnt be just a continuity mistake, like Trinity's Cadillac missing scratches when her and Morpheous get out of it after it scraped against the siderail for like 10 seconds, it would be a major script mistake.

Think about how many times they must read the script before the movies went into production. They obviously had a discussion about how many sentinals Neo was going to stop. Then, the scene was story boarded....then....even completely computer generated before it was filmed.

Just my .02

This post was off topic....sorry.

4 or 5 sentinels. Who cares, most probably a mistake. But if you don't accept that then think about like this. Neo ends up in a freakin coma. When he wakes up he can't remember exactly how many he stopped. If that makes you sleep better at night the go with that. Or maybe Neo can't count, the Oracle did say he wasn't too bright. No seriously, it's probably a mistake, made because people had worked like crazy for a long time and mistakes like that are then bound to happen. There are many mistakes throughout the trilogy but who really cares it's still the best trilogy out there and will be for a long time. And it is kind of lame to discuss a thing like that when there a ton of other interesting things to discuss. I like your explanation of the sentinel through Neo Spinak. But you can't say that it definatly isn't the spiritual explanation. If someone wants to explain it from a spiritual viewpoint you can't say that is wrong. The only ones who can say what is right or wrong in the Matrix trilogy are the W's. We can only say what we personally think, therefore we can't say that anyone is wrong.

I could state the same thing about you yipman...

Why do you spend so many time in trying to convince us that it was a pure mistake?

Because it probably was. The only reason this is even discussed is because some of you won't admit that the W's can make mistakes. What comes next, Morpheus moving sword on the truck is not a mistake but it actually means blah blah blah. What if Neo had dropped his pants in Mobil ave and taken a dump. Would you have said 'oh what is the meaning of that chunk of shit, look at the curved shape of the pile, maybe it represents the cycle of the Matrix' (just making a point about overanalyzing things if you didn't get it). There are many mistakes in the trilogy that are just that, mistakes. And you are right Mobil Ave Neo, I am spending too much time on this. I just can't believe that people are now even overanalyzing the mistakes. But I am not surprised that mistakes happened, they worked like crazy finishing these movies (for which I am incredibly grateful by the way, as I am sure you all are). But hey, what the f..k do I know blahahaha. Maybe the secret of the Matrix is hidden in what looks like a mistake. Maybe the fifth sentinel (who Neo felt survive before he went into his coma, hence him saying 4 at the Oracles) is the Architect in a sentinel costume flying around in the second Matrix checking Neo to see if he has gained his new superpowers yet. The Architect then flies back into his chamber and watches the Mobile Ave station and tries to figure out the meaning of Neos pile of shit. But if you seriously think that it isn't a mistake, then tell me what you think it means, as I am interested in your opinions even if I think different.

Oops, way off topic, sorry

Neo doesn't need to shit in a virtual environment, because he of all people realises that it is a fake world where in fact your RSI doesn't even NEED food. So a pile of shit would never be an issue for me

And offcourse I am willing to admit that the Wachowski's can make a mistake. They are human and without mistakes nothing is really produced or learned in life.

I guess you are right. Most scenes and sections are separately filmed and maybe they only discovered it after the dialogue-scene with Keanu was already filmed.

But it could mean something though. It could proof us that Neo was not concentrating on each Sentinel individually to stop them. It could tell us that Neo only thought in his mind: "stop ya all!". And so they did. The fifth Sentinel was behind the other four, so visually Neo never saw it.

This was an important detail to know, because it tells us that he doesn't 'touch' each Sentinel individually; no he just 'touches' the Source in one go and then the Source disables the Sentinels.

So in terms of enlightment Neo is in touch with the Source/the Light and he can manipulate it's fabric just by thinking with his mind.

But maybe you should study computer science more, like you stated in another thread

But seriously, you could be right, but also I could be right. Both visions are reasonable.

I just don't want you to judge about what is important to the story or what not. Because no-one really knows

That's what I have said so many times. We can only say what WE think. We don't know what the W's know so we can only speculate.

So Mobil_ave_Neo agrees with my theory...It´s reasonable, no?

If you think of the Matrix as a metaphor for Eastern religions (primarily Hinduism, but secondarily Buddhism), then Neo's transformations throughout the movie are a metaphor of a general progression towards transcendence.

1. In the first movie, he transcends the "virtual" reality of the Matrix, learning to bend its rules.
   
   
2. In the second movie, he transcends the limits of the mind, gaining psychic powers.
   
   
3. In the third movie, he transcends the limits of the body, gaining the ability to bend the rules of reality.
   

In M3, at Track 30, 1:53:38, a cross appears very clearly on Neo's chest as he absorbs energy from the Matrix. I took this as evidence that the whole thing was a Christian allegory, albeit a strange one considering Christ's admonition to "turn him the other cheek" when attacked with violence.

footloosifer wrote:

In M3, at Track 30, 1:53:38, a cross appears very clearly on Neo's chest as he absorbs energy from the Matrix. I took this as evidence that the whole thing was a Christian allegory, albeit a strange one considering Christ's admonition to "turn him the other cheek" when attacked with violence.

Are you sure it was a Christian cross? 2 Perpendicular lines forming a cross are very common symbolism in many cultures.

I think there are references to Judeo-Christianity for sure (Seraph, for instance), but I think it's bigger than that.

Look beyond what is familiar. Trinity, for instance. Is her name a reference to the Christian Holy Trinity? Or perhaps the Trinity of Brahman?

ANd...let me think,what about the fact that NEO is a human being with two arms and two legs, and that the "energy" beam starts from his chest, expanding itself from North to South and from West to East? , well, somebody could also reference this to Darwin´s theories or even the Paradise origin...

Aniway, the most simple thought is that those names are cool,and sounds good, and nothing else, if not, what the heck could mean in any philosophy or religion the names "TANK" or "DOZER" or "CYPHER"? as an example...


:O=== :O===
:O===

I think it is a mix of christianity and buddhism/hinduism. Neo gives his life for man and machine in an enlightened state. Ooh I know, Neo is the Chruddha. I don't know what I am talking about, I'll shut up now. Peace.

Too much Wing Chun without focusing well the inner line of defence, eh YipMan? I know that hurts (I remember my KickBoxing lessons...auch...)

Bad focus = Big Hit in the head =

Angel [MIFUNE] wrote:

ANd...let me think,what about the fact that NEO is a human being with two arms and two legs, and that the "energy" beam starts from his chest, expanding itself from North to South and from West to East?

Dude, I just saw something that I wanted to point out. If you watch it frame-by-frame, the cross looks very much like the familiar Christian one, with the bottom arm being the longest.

Transio, I think the name Trinity refers to the three Mary's who observed the crucifixion:
“Near the cross of Jesus stood his mother, his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Clopas [Cleophas], and Mary Magdalene” (John 19:25)

Basically, I doubt the Wachowski's know much about Taoism or any other religion that you can't pick up on from watching western TV. Just a guess.