»Was the Architect lying?«

I think that the architect say to Neo things that Neo must discover to save Zion. This is shown when the architect say Neo what door choose and make the difference about his selection.Finally ,Neo shown that he couldn't save Trinity (Dead on Matrix Revolutions, city of the machines), but save Zion.

If the architect is a program, how could he have created the matrix? If he's the creator, than he has to create it from essentially nothing, which means he couldnt be living in it. So what is he?

He is a program that was compiled from the Source.

The machine world is very deterministic, so they create a program for each task/purpose instead of 'the Source' doing all the work by itself.

The one and only task of the Architect was to build the Matrix based on rational principles, thus also keeping the equation balanced/stable for it to run.

He couldn't do this allone, he needed the aid of other programs who were all specifically designed to investigate human nature.

i.e. the oracle right

Indeed!

And I think that in the beginning also Persephone. She mostly investigated the chemical based emotions of human nature.

I know this is probably wrong but anyway...

and in the beginning Searph might of been orignally used to investigate the physical side of humans

Then I would rather say that he was there to investigate the mental power that human nature is capable of.

He has fights with people in the Matrix in order to 'get to know them'. The Matrix is the world of the mind, so he is mentally testing them.

thanks for clearing that up, so my post was pointless then.

No deedee. You both could be right. He could test mankind's mental need to solve problems with violence.

please dont call me deedee. I wonder if we will ever know his past

Oh sorry...Dee.

We might know his past if MxO reveals it.

Dont have MxO Back to the the original question, i think he is telling the truth...his truth that is.

Agreed.

Mobil_Ave_Neo wrote:

Indeed! And I think that in the beginning also Persephone. She mostly investigated the chemical based emotions of human nature.

i think that is right, the reason why i agree with this is because, she can tell/feel emotions such as love, and passion. eg. the toilet scene with Neo.

so really, when you think about it, all of the exiles had a purpose within the first couple of cycles of the matrix, and that was to understand and better the knowledge of the human psyhcie. ie love, choice, mental and phsyical strengths.

but when all of this info was learned they became obselete

Ithought that to when rereading the posts, i wonder what everyone did? Makes you think...

what part a big topic of abit and good post

dee are you ok man, the last few post have been, shall we say retarded in speech.

i dont know, i think i may be devolping a problem.

dude get it checked out, we would not want to miss out on your input.

Agent Zero wrote:

it was 100% true, he is a machine and cant lie!

The political machine never lies
All Politicians tell the truth.

Morpheus:know what I'm talking about?
Neo: The Matrix?
Morpheus: Do you want to know what IT is?
It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.

Merovingian: No. Wrong. Choice is an illusion, created between those with power, and those without.

The dilemma is, there is not enough evidence in Matrix Reloaded, or Matrix Revolutions, to determine the truth or lack thereof in the Architect's speech.

For example, the Architect states that the majority of pod-people accept the Matrix on a subconscious level. Now, if you had a scene somewhere Neo tries to show someone the reality , and they refuse, instead taking the blue pill, as a commentary on how people choose a comfortable lie over an uncomfortable reality, it would work. Something like Cypher in The Matrix choosing to be plugged back in.

But you never see anything in any of the movies to prove or disprove anything the Architect might say. Another example: say the Kid does some digging in the Zion basement and finds evidence of six earlier cities which had been destroyed. Or someone discovers a videotape of an earlier Neo and it shows...the Merovingian.

The Architect's speech is one of the worse forms of film-making: making up for a lack of plot action by having a narrator explain things. He could just as well have read the Wall Street Journal, backwards, and made just as much sense.

Mobil_Ave_Neo wrote:

Then I would rather say that he was there to investigate the mental power that human nature is capable of. He has fights with people in the Matrix in order to 'get to know them'. The Matrix is the world of the mind, so he is mentally testing them.

in revolutions, in the scene when smith copies himself over the oracle, in codes we see the oracle in green, however seraph in yellow, in fact seraph is the only one in yellow, even neo is in green, we can't say about the frenchman...
so what does that mean?
plus in the path of neo, when the user switches to the code view mode, we see neo in yellow, and also everyone else, can that be on purpose or a mistake?
( it's wingless )...
i think there are things that we're not supposed to know yet, things that will be unfolded later on....

The problem is, we have no way of confirming or denying anything in the Architect's speech. We do not even know if he really is the Architect, or just another talking head.

The Architect makes a series of claims which are nowhere supported in the movies.

For example, he states that most people inside The Matrix accept it. Now, if we had seen some scene earlier in the movie where the Zionites try to liberate people, and people refuse, the Architect's statement might be supported. But we only have his word for it.

What is odd is that after Neo returns from the Architect yak-fest, he says that he believes what he was told. But why? Is Neo that gullible? Or does he have to say this to make the plot go forward.

Another example: the Architect tells Neo that he is not the first "One" (presumably, he is the "Seven"?). Now, there is a shred of support for this from the Merovingian's earlier statements. Yet how does Neo react? Does he ask why the other failed? Does he try to look "behind the curtain" to see what is really going on in The Matrix? Nope. Just more kung fu fighting.