»The Veil Has Been Lifted«

the matrix is the veil that has been put over everybodies eyes to keep them from reaching their full potential as an physical/spiritual hyperdimensional being...

the maya in dec. 2012 is when this is supposed to happen and we reconnect with the 'truth' or the reality of ourselves-self- oneness

in the real world when Neo feels something is different, maybe the veil has been lifted, and he might just be the first to notice it, the other humans may be given similar abilities in time.

Neo will reach his full potential because it is meant to happen he is the One... (if your potential can be full, or maybe it keeps growing)

everything is a part of the whole of the One... it cannot be described in the words of any language we have but it is tried in poetry and other ways... if you like, it can be called god or bob or one or source

the Brahman and the Atman are one and the same.
each person contains all things within the deepest self
one need only to KNow the Self to Know ALL
the Self can be known in the surest way possible for it is Self-revealing
in Conciousness when the objects of consciousness that block out self-illumination are Transcended. (Upanishads)

You are the ultimate reality

How do we 'Know the Self'? the Self will be revealed to you

... and maybe the cycle will be broken and we can break free from our boundaries and illusions-gender,age,time,life/death,taxes,etc...

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... and maybe the cycle will be broken and we can break free from our boundaries and illusions-gender,age,time,life/death,taxes,etc...

And why would you want to do that? They are the things that makes you who you are.

Take my word for it. It gets boring to be a glowing ball of energy swooping through the universe after a while.

everything is energy, matter is energy either in wave or particle...

who says you have to be a floating ball of energy?

you will be able to do anything, live in this world if you want to-past,present or future- time is an illusion in this dimension
or live on other worlds or even create your own

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And why would you want to do that? They are the things that makes you who you are

"the matrix cannot tell you who you are"
are you not limited by what 'makes you who you are'?

we cannot fully express some thoughts/ideas/feelings/etc because we are limited in how we may do so. we can write or make music or paint but that may only be a part of what we want to express. can you send what you are feeling directly to the mind of someone else?

do you want to be told who you are, or do you want to tell who you are?

we are constantly told who we are everyday, by other people and the media, tv, govt. etc

are you an american (any place of origin) because you live here or because you were born here?
i live here and i was born here but i do not feel a love for this country a 'patriotism' because of events or people telling me that i should 'love' the country you were born in.

the media refers to the citizens of america as 'consumers'
meaning we 'devour, destroy, absorb, spend and waste'
in a sense we are these things, we devour and destroy absorb spend and waste. in their sense we are the people that spend and buy and consume everything we can because in doing so, we are good citizens/consumers

people in power are not called 'consumers'

are you a consumer? is that your whole purpose, to live and work and earn to spend and devour to be destroyed?

and if you oppose the govt in the country which you live for going to war, and you are a 'consumer' you are supporting that govt, they require your income taxes to opperate and will be taxing you till the end of your life.

drugs are not funding terrorists, taxes are.

this has been a rant, but do you see how you are told who you are and not that you tell who you are? we are part of a system and that system controls us

I am an information recepticle/filter in the guise of a consumer.
But no label can describe who/what you are. It is, as always, open ended, isn't it? Artist, lover, observer, madman, addict, garbage collector, television executive, religious zealot, clerk, veterinarian, etc.
Reality is in the eyes of the beholder.

And this is why the Merovingian wants these eyes. All of them.

@esc

I think you are closer to the truth than you know.

The soup is not defined by the spoon.

As the walls crumble, the roof will fall.

Watch out, they'll be coming.

Oh man, how tired I sometimes get of reading your post.

I know that you must see me as really stupid, since you are constantly trying to feed me this "Nobody can tell you who you are" shit.

I am a living human being that is based on genetics and influence. That's not so hard, is it?

Yes, the genes and influences may vary, and that's what makes us individuals.

Why do you have to believe in super-powers?

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you will be able to do anything, live in this world if you want to-past,present or future- time is an illusion in this dimension or live on other worlds or even create your own

Or maybe I can't?

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drugs are not funding terrorists, taxes are.

Amen!

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this has been a rant, but do you see how you are told who you are and not that you tell who you are? we are part of a system and that system controls us

We are the system. It is made by humans, not by some evil god.

Oh no. Not another one of these topics.

P

Where is STINKOMAN?

esc,

MOVE!! don't buy anything!! Don't watch movies!! Boycott the revolutions DVD!!

we (every person on this planet) are consumers because we need stuff in order to live and enjoy ourselves. to get stuff, we have to buy it, make it, or steal it. most of us buy it. that is definitely a source of control over parts of our life, but its not controlling all of it. maybe you could simplify your rant by saying "Don't believe everything you hear."

as far as taxes goes... they suck. i don't agree w/ all of the taxing laws and methods, but can you find a government that doesn't tax? my feeling is that if you want to enjoy the life inside a regulated society pay taxes and vote. if you want live on your own, move.

just enjoy life within the confines you are given. help others as you go. and personally i'm not waiting till 2012.

0x587e1a2c wrote:

esc, we (every person on this planet) are consumers because we need stuff in order to live and enjoy ourselves. to get stuff, we have to buy it, make it, or steal it. most of us buy it. that is definitely a source of control over parts of our life, but its not controlling all of it. maybe you could simplify your rant by saying "Don't believe everything you hear."

Well, actually you don't need stuff to survive. Everything you need you have. It is your understanding of what you think you need that drives you. Check out Buddhist thought on suffering and its derivative causes. It is the need and desire for things that cause pain.

A buddhist monk can be sustained by a grain of rice. Imagine if they were completely enlightened ... would they need that grain at all?

0x587e1a2c wrote:

as far as taxes goes... they suck. i don't agree w/ all of the taxing laws and methods, but can you find a government that doesn't tax? my feeling is that if you want to enjoy the life inside a regulated society pay taxes and vote. if you want live on your own, move.

Hence the biblical idea of a tithe.

Unfortunately, one does not have the luxury of shrugging off society and its trappings. One cannot move out of it and decide that they don't want to pay taxes.

Anyhow, this discussion has been had in much greater detail on the 100% human/100% machine topic... I would try to offer more insight and back myself up with more, but I am not in the mood right now.

Sir Reef.

SirReef wrote:

Well, actually you don't need stuff to survive. Everything you need you have. It is your understanding of what you think you need that drives you.

fine. i understand that if i don't eat i die. my hunger and weakness back up that understanding. i buy food to eat. i consume food to appease my hunger. according to esc's rantings, that makes me a puppet named "dumb consumer." my point is that the necessity of having to be a consumer doesn't make one "under control." It doesn't even suggest that some majority of the worlds population is "under control."

as for the monk who can live on one grain of rice...
did he buy the rice? now he is a consumer like me.
is he enlightened, or is he just suppressing the fact that he's damn hungry.

furthurmore, i don't beleive "need" always causes pain. i believe desire can. but why associate characteristics of enlightenment w/ not needing anything. they don't seem related to me.

0x587e1a2c wrote:

as for the monk who can live on one grain of rice... did he buy the rice? now he is a consumer like me. is he enlightened, or is he just suppressing the fact that he's damn hungry.

He understands that he is more than his body. His body holds little control over him.

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furthurmore, i don't beleive "need" always causes pain. i believe desire can. but why associate characteristics of enlightenment w/ not needing anything. they don't seem related to me.

They wouldn't. Having a western mindset doesn't normally equate to this understanding. My understanding may be flawed, but it is just that... my understanding.

Enlightenment would lead to not needing things because you would realize that there is nothing to need. Everything around you now is an illusion, if you will. It is the "Matrix". If you were to understand and comprehend who you truly were, you would not need for anything.

"Do you believe that is air you are breathing?"

Again, this has been debated to death over on 100% Man/100% Machine. If you are truly interested, which I suspect you are not, then read some of those posts. They offer much more insight then this post.

Sir Reef.

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Enlightenment would lead to not needing things because you would realize that there is nothing to need. Everything around you now is an illusion, if you will. It is the "Matrix". If you were to understand and comprehend who you truly were, you would not need for anything. "Do you believe that is air you are breathing?"

So why does they continue breathing? Because we need to breathe. By not breathing, you experience pain.

I think we should stay related to the matrix movies. So if we see our world as the matrix, what is the difference between "god" and the machines?

If there is a way to break through the barriers of this world, would we just realize that we are being exploited for a reason that has no benefit for us?

Isn't that a more probable explenation considering the way the human race is evolving into "consumers"? We are who we are made of.

Breathing is a metaphor for the inward, and the outward. The giving and receiving of energies. It is a symbiotic, unconscious action that connects us to the world. Input oxygen, output carbon dioxide. Plants, totally different from us in so many ways, complete the revolution. The reconcilation of opposites, what this whole universe is based on. The fundamental paradox.

The matrix has taken this a step further, and replaced Plants with Humans, and Humans with Machines.

Emp, we talk about "superpowers" because we can imagine them plausibly, even scientifically at this point. Genetic modification/nanotechnology will produce a new kind of human, given enough time(heh).
But, mostly what we are all discussing here is the mind. Imagination.
First a concept is manifested in the mind, then followed in the "real world."
Some of us believe that the mind manifests all of this ridiculous reality.
Lucid dreaming certainly adds credibility to this assertation.

[quote="emp"]

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I think we should stay related to the matrix movies. So if we see our world as the matrix, what is the difference between "god" and the machines?

I thought I was staying "on the Matrix" topic. I even used a Matrix quote.

But, all in all, my belief is a very similar belief to that which is espoused in the Matrix. The Brothers so admitted that it had its roots in Eastern thought, especially Buddhism.

So, while may may disagree with those understandings... the underpinnings remain unchanged. Take the truths you want from the movie, but it doesn't change the fact that it was inspired by Eastern thought about enlightenment.

Finally, the story is allegorical. Everything cannot be a one-to-one transfer. But, in truth, the machines can be seen as "god". You insist on seeing god as the creator and the doer. You insist on HIM creating your experience. The beliefs upon which the Matrix draw its concepts from do NOT.

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If there is a way to break through the barriers of this world, would we just realize that we are being exploited for a reason that has no benefit for us?

It depends who you consider to be 'us'. If you consider 'us' to be a flesh sack, then yes... there is no benefit to life and experience. Why do we do anything except propogation of the species and our own self-gratification.

But, if you come to a different understanding, and consider 'us' to be more than which you experience on this planet... then there might be a great benefit to 'us' in all of this.

You are trying to make judgements on things from one perspective.

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Isn't that a more probable explenation considering the way the human race is evolving into "consumers"? We are who we are made of.

Obviously, for you this understanding is more probable. My truths, I consider to be evident in everything I do. My experiences lead me to a different truth... so no, it is not more probable to me.

Sir Reef.

I think some of you who want to gain a larger perspective on the history and purpose of civilization would benefit from looking into Ken Wilber's work

I'm working on an integral perspective which shows Neo as a vertical emergent

"A new center of sociocultural gravity is slowly emerging- the vision logic information society with an existential or aperspectival worldview, set in a techno-economic base of digital information transfer, and a centauric self that must integrate its mind, body and matter- integrate the physiosphere, biosphere and noosphere- if its behavior is to functionally fit in the new workspace
And this is a very tall order. Because the really crucial point is that a new transformation places a new and horrible burden on the world. It is hardly cause for undiluted celebration! Every new emergent and transformative development brings a new demand and a new responsibility: the higher must be integrated with the lower. Transcend and include. And the greater the depth of transcendence, the greater the burden of inclusion."

Does Ken Wilber have any answers, or does he just conclude with some vague thoughts about everything being one and a fact-disregarding belief in continued existence after death of the human body?

I hope so. Then I'll read it.

marl64 wrote:

@esc I think you are closer to the truth than you know. The soup is not defined by the spoon. As the walls crumble, the roof will fall. Watch out, they'll be coming.

Yep, The Mayan calendar ends Dec 2012 - not long to wait. They said that the world AS WE KNOW IT would come to an end. Perhaps the reversal of the Earths Magnetic Field, there has been lots of talk about that lately....

emp wrote:

Does Ken Wilber have any answers, or does he just conclude with some vague thoughts about everything being one and a fact-disregarding belief in continued existence after death of the human body?

What is vague about the notion "that everything is one"? It sounds pretty concrete if you ask me. Do you understand the notion of vagueness? No one proclaiming this concept has been vague. Obviously, the problem lies in YOUR ability to comprehend the data laid out before you.

Also, what "facts" have been disregarded in the belief og continued existence after death? I can grant you that no undeniable evidence has been given, but that does not create an untruth. I have no evidence, other than accounts, that George Washington existed. Does this make this untrue? I have never experienced San Fransisco, but it doesn't mean it isn't there.

I challege you to give me a "fact" that was disregarded in this belief in continued existence.

Sir Reef.

as for being a 'consumer' i mean that we are no longer referred to as human beings, we are ants to do the work, we are the ants that go to war we are the ants that take care of the queen
i don't mean consumer as just a label that is given to you like mother or doctor or student, humans no longer have any value, just look at the death of civilians in a war, in iraq the civilian deaths are hardly ever mentioned when thousands of them have died and only a couple hundred american soldiers have died
it is unpatriotic to care for the life of someone living in another country apparently


time has been steadily getting faster until the day that there will be no more 'time'

this will be a 'world without time' , beyond this world time does not exist in other dimensions

the poles will change because the earth is slowing down until it stops, and then it will turn in the other direction, the sun will rise in the west, this is a cycle that has been happening for however long the earth has been around. some native americans know this has happened before when the sun rose twice in one day, first from the west, hours later in the east

when we sleep we dream in the 'astral' world/dimension whatever.
how have you're dreams been lately?

i can recall more and more of my dreams and what happens seems to be 'real' distinguishing between this world and the dreamworld is becoming more difficult because i believe that two worlds are merging and one day will become one, our world and the 'dream' world

this is happening because this world is rising out of its current frequency into another
it is just a matter of 'when' some of us will be able to 'free our minds' from its boundaries placed upon us by society with less than adequate education and religion designed to keep us from the truth, we are poisoned with chemicals in nearly everything we eat and drink which dulls the mind, and since i have yet to be able to free myself from the need to 'eat and drink' i am controlled in this way to keep poisoning myself

have you ever levitated or flown in a dream?

the world today is being manipulated to carry out the book of 'revelation'
holography technology has been around for decades that a satellite can show an image anywhere in the world of -jesus or krishna or buddha or whoever they want to control you- they can also send sound directly to your head in any language where you are.

in 'revelations' there is a time when 'demons' are loosed upon the world and they torture humans. people will pray for death, but death will not come.
when is it that you can 'die' and still be 'alive'? in your dreams
people will not be able to 'die' because there will be nowhere for them to go

it is believed by some that when you 'die' here you go to the astral until your next incarnation.
if these two worlds merge, you would not be able to go there because you are already there, you would have to transcend this new 'reality' to be free from it

another way humanity has been manipulated is that they believe in a 'messiah' figure. will someone come glowing with an army behind them to save you and have you worship them?

the truth is you will not be 'saved' you must 'save' yourself, you must take responsibility into your own hands and not just sit around waiting for someone else to do it

eastern thought is suppressed in the western 'mainstream'
christianity deems it to be evil to practice meditation and yoga and all sorts of things

have you ever watched TBN...Trinity Broadcasting Network?
it might make you sick to your stomach

@astral mage:
aperspectival is not in my dictionary, mind, or scrabble-playbook. Is this your own word, or is it just new?

@esc:
All of us are experiencing our own journey. Because of the nature of infinity, we can all have radically different reality paradigms, and still cross over into a consensual reality where they blend together.
For some, cosmic convergence, the discovery of the fifth dimension, and the end of time will occur on 12/21/12 or thereabouts.
For others, TBN is an accurate(I know this is scary!) portrayal of their cosmology. (I think that channel is funny! Those guys steal all of that money, and still dress like bufoons!)
For others still, the universe is on the back of a space turtle or the answer is 42 or 23, etc, etc.
Perhaps the nature of the mind is to make us believe in some form of coherent systems, but for that to happen we can still have absolute choas except for the existence of our coherent minds(whose appearance in absolute chaos does not detract from the random nature of chaos). This forces the mind to sort chaotic things out into logic and reasoning, two things that are not common in the "real universe" of absolute chaos.
But, I like your writings, and think they have a lot of merit.
I just believe that individual minds are much different from each other than we think, and it is very hard for us to imagine their coexistence without similar processes taking place inside of them. The minds themselves, perhaps, decide what experiences "you" need to have for unlocking/completing the infinite cycles which lead to rebirthing or true obliteration.

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aperspectival is not in my dictionary, mind, or scrabble-playbook. Is this your own word, or is it just new?

Ogami not at all- if you are interested look into Gebsers work (think he coined the phrase a decade or so ago)

This nascent structure of consciousness, for the first time in human history, permits the conscious integration of all previous (but co-present) structures, and through this act of integration the human personality becomes, as it were, transparent to itself so that the originary presence, "the spiritual" , is directly "awared." And this presentation of the spiritual origin enables the human being to transcend the potential exclusivity of all structures of consciousness




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emp wrote:

Quote: ... and maybe the cycle will be broken and we can break free from our boundaries and illusions-gender,age,time,life/death,taxes,etc... And why would you want to do that? They are the things that makes you who you are.

But maybe not who we should be.

emp wrote:

Take my word for it. It gets boring to be a glowing ball of energy swooping through the universe after a while.

Probably true, that's why we all invented the game called "Physical Universe", "Craziness", "Problems", "Not being a god anymore" etc...

Should I put this thread to Chit Chat?

emp wrote:

Take my word for it. It gets boring to be a glowing ball of energy swooping through the universe after a while.

unless the universe is a black 2 dimensional space surrounded by two white paddles and our essence is a white glowing ball that gets bounced around between them. that, my friends is an equation that equals endless lifetimes of fun and enlightenment

esc wrote:

the matrix is the veil that has been put over everybodies eyes to keep them from reaching their full potential as an physical/spiritual hyperdimensional being... the maya in dec. 2012 is when this is supposed to happen and we reconnect with the 'truth' or the reality of ourselves-self- oneness in the real world when Neo feels something is different, maybe the veil has been lifted, and he might just be the first to notice it, the other humans may be given similar abilities in time. Neo will reach his full potential because it is meant to happen he is the One... (if your potential can be full, or maybe it keeps growing) everything is a part of the whole of the One... it cannot be described in the words of any language we have but it is tried in poetry and other ways... if you like, it can be called god or bob or one or source the Brahman and the Atman are one and the same. each person contains all things within the deepest self one need only to KNow the Self to Know ALL the Self can be known in the surest way possible for it is Self-revealing in Conciousness when the objects of consciousness that block out self-illumination are Transcended. (Upanishads) You are the ultimate reality How do we 'Know the Self'? the Self will be revealed to you ... and maybe the cycle will be broken and we can break free from our boundaries and illusions-gender,age,time,life/death,taxes,etc...

That was a wonderful Theosophist explanation of the Matrix. Congradulations, you have just proven that you are part of the Matrix and still have not seen past the cloud upon the sanctuary.

But, did it ever occure to you that the New Age might just in fact be the Matrix?

0=1

If time doesn't exist, or machines DO exist that can calculate in five or greater dimensions, then it is assured that we are simulated at a level of accuracy that is indistinguishable from the original version, for the convergence of consciousness has already occured and rippled through realities. So, both the simulation and the original become One.
So this is the story of the birth of consciousness, and the experiences we have are different paths from the birth to the convergence.
This is why the Matrix has such a real, haunting echo to it.
It is a reflection of our feelings.
It is a reflection of the paradox of control and freedom.
It is a necessary event/example to help us understand the truth of consciousness.