»Who created the Architect?«

If the architect created the matrix, and if he is a program, who created him?

Well there's some disagreement here. Some thoughts are that he was once human and is now virtual. Or, he's a synthetic personality programmed/created to watch over the residents of the Matrix. What is his function in the real world of the machines remains to be seen.

i dont think one machine has the power to create the matrix. I reckon he is human, protected by the machines at first?? then maybe turned into machine?? ok i dont believe what i just wrote. its an idea then lol

I guess the important thing here is to realize how Larry and Andy look at artificial intelligence. I think they see it at superior to our own, and I have no doubt that machines in the Matrix movies could have (and probably have) created the matrix.

From the way how he talks I would suggest he is a program. Did you understand what he was talking about when you first saw it? Ergo: Probably vis-a-vis software

HAHA the amount of times he said ergo! did any of you see the mtv movie award spoof about reloaded, it was hilarious.

Ergo: Probably vis-a-vis software .......explain then.....

oops that was me

When Neo enters the door after the keymaker has been killed, he leaves the Matrix (There is a 5 second flick showing the door becoming a white/green dot, leaving the Matrix and entering the Architects room). Which makes the Architect not part of the Matrix, but a program running parallell to the Matrix (not inside it).

The architect is one of the main AIs of the machine world. He has the responsibility for energy production, and does this by keeping the Matrix operational (well, he thinks so, but in reality he has no clue, beacuse the machines really don't need humans for energy, and that makes him stupid).

So Neo and the architect have a long conversation about how the machines can survive no matter what Neo chooses. Machines don't care about time, and couldn't if there is only 1 little Pentium processor running for 5000 years until the sky has cleared and the solar-panels start working again. So there have to be another meaning behind the Matrix (and the architect), or I will be seriously disappointed.

emp wrote:

and that makes him stupid).

Arseetect

emp wrote:

So there have to be another meaning behind the Matrix (and the architect), or I will be seriously disappointed.

Any ideas? I mean this has been discussed over and over again in fora and on "philosphical websites". What is your best shot?

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Arseetect

I have to admit that I find you somewhat more interesting that the Architect.

You take the time to create this wonderful site.
You create professional, useful and cool freeware.
You are funny.
You use the picture of a woman as an avatar:

emp wrote:

Quote: Arseetect I find you somewhat more interesting that the Architect. You take the time to create this wonderful site. You create professional, useful and cool freeware. You are funny.

Thank you very much!!

is this guy flirting with guy?

the Architect is a program created by other programs created by other program, etc. What generation or level of understanding is in the Architect is as unknowable to man as the generation of understanding of God and the angels.

Nah, I like the idea that there is one bad ass AI who has 3 threads running:

1. "Search for alternate energy sources so we can rid us of those pesky humans"

2. "The Matrix OS v6.02"

3. Produce more machines to battle the growing threat of Zion.

We created the machines. It's got to be more bureaucratic than that.
In the animatrix we see quite a variety of ai. I believe they have many different ideas. Remember, they obliterated our economy by being so efficient, and improving on everything constantly by collaborating with totally weird, different types of machines. Really, until the Machine City is unveiled, we are in the Dark.

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We created the machines. It's got to be more bureaucratic than that.

Good point, but machines are known to be excellent optimizers. I think the machines (when in control of the entire planet) would remove anything not useful to a machine.

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they obliterated our economy by being so efficient, and improving on everything constantly by collaborating with totally weird, different types of machines

Yup. Many different machines. But one "mind". Even completely different processors would think the same thoughts, because they are based on the same digital/mechanical technology.

Inside the Matrix, though, there is a whole other story.

But still, it seems like a really stupid idea to have one program watching over the trees, one over the birds, and so forth.

Wouldn't it be better to emulate the laws of physics as completely as possible, and just let a tree be a tree?

The really interesting and bizarre part of this though, is that the AI programs are sentient. Thusly, efficiency is key, but not at the price of their "lives." I don't believe that the programs that watch over all the little details are sentient. They are probably less sentient than XP(which due to the Patriot act, and the deals Microsoft made to maintain their Monopoly money, now connect your computer directly to the CIA's Echelon Sattilite supercomputers which relay the filtered information to the the Beast Supercomputer in Switzerland, the new capital of high technology).

emp wrote:

But still, it seems like a really stupid idea to have one program watching over the trees, one over the birds, and so forth.

Why stupid? This is in the Matrix, baby, the humans have to party like it's 1999. Everything must look like real life.

Jack Frost wrote:

now connect your computer directly to the CIA's Echelon Sattilite supercomputers which relay the filtered information to the the Beast Supercomputer in Switzerland

....which is then connected directly to Smith.

Didn't you ever wonder why all politicians sound the same? No matter how they fight prior to elections: After the elections everything stays the same. Obviously just another case of faked choice: "Choose your president, but everything develops as the system wants it".

I guess the conclusion is that the Matrix is so poorly written that it's falling apart (much like Windows plattform). The architect (Bill Gates) is desperatly trying to convince everbody that he has the bug under control, and that he simply have to reload a new version of windows on his machine. This time, though, he has not only have a bug in windows, but also a virus (Smith). It also seems like the bug has the ability to destroy hardware.

Monopoly won't help him this time.

The Architect isn't part of the Matrix and the Source is neither in so-called real world or the Matrix. It is just another sphere or Matrix. Also, the distinction between humans and programs doesn't make any sense. All seem to be more or less sentient characters. And I think there still exists the destinction between good and evil.

This is the best fit to get the things together. Just some reasons:

- When the Architect says that Zion is going to be destroyed he asked Neo to select 23 Persons in order to rebuild the matrix. This means that the Architect cannot be part of any version of the Matrix.

- Also the existence of the Matrix is depending on Zion. How so?

- The origin of any person, regardless if human or program, is in the dark. How can anyone take for granted that the birth and groing up in our world explains anything to our existence - it does not. Life remains a mystery.

I wonder if the audience is identifying themselfes with the protagonists or group of them. I assume it is Neo, Morpheus, Trinity and the other humans. Why ... or is there a different view?

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It is just another sphere or Matrix.

Again you fill this forum with disinformation.

Do you not like the idea that something is real and is not just a simulation of some sort?

The Architect made the matrix, and is not a part of it, that much is correct. If he is a program, he can choose to make himself a part of the matrix, but his knowledge would make him able to exit at any time.

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Also, the distinction between humans and programs doesn't make any sense. All seem to be more or less sentient characters.

Inside the matrix, yes. But the most obvious difference is that the programs does not have a body to move around in the real world with... Until Smith made his move.

So I agree that by overwriting every human with a program (The Smith-way), you could keep the matrix going without the need for human intervention and anomalies.

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But the most obvious difference is that the programs does not have a body to move around in the real world with... Until Smith made his move.

The unredeemed ones in their cocoons cannot move around in the 'real' world. So they are sub human? As most of them are not aware of the story line, the are subject of manipulation and can be killed without a second thought - as sub-humans?
As you gave the example to confirm my thesis ... It didn't take the move of Smith to amalgate the definitions.

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So I agree that by overwriting every human with a program (The Smith-way), you could keep the matrix going without the need for human intervention and anomalies.

Who cares? And why?

In fact, I do ... it wouldn't work. Or if so, it would be too boring for smith himself - and he would die of boredom.

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The unredeemed ones in their cocoons cannot move around in the 'real' world. So they are sub human?

Does the ability to walk make someone more human than, say, someone in a wheelchair?

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In fact, I do ... it wouldn't work. Or if so, it would be too boring for smith himself - and he would die of boredom.

A program can't experience boredom if it has not been programmed for it.

Just-a-Program wrote:

- When the Architect says that Zion is going to be destroyed he asked Neo to select 23 Persons in order to rebuild the matrix.

No:
"After which, you will be required to select from the Matrix 23 individuals - 16 female, 7 male - to rebuild Zion."

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Also the existence of the Matrix is depending on Zion. How so?

Architect: "will result in a cataclysmic system crash, killing everyone connected to the Matrix"

Maybe because of Smith's spreading, or because more and more people would be freed if Neo & Co continued.

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The origin of any person, regardless if human or program, is in the dark... Life remains a mystery.

And so does this argument, why it should be taken as a reason for anything.