»I'm starting to understand the reason behind the 6th...«

I have a theory but I'm not sure if it's true.

In the Matrix, it is inevitable for an anomaly to be formed, the One.And the machines prevent the One from saving the humans and destroying the Matrix, as making up a prophecy, saying that if the One reaches the source, the war would end.And when the One reaches the source, he is asked to make a decision between 2 choices.In one choice, the machines will destroy the zion, the One will choose 7m 16f people from the Matrix and the machines would let them rebuild Zion, the One will reinsert the code that he carries and reboot the Matrix, as known as the right door.The other choice is the One is sent to save the girlfriend, the machines would destroy the Zion and wouldn't let humans to rebuild it and this would cause a system crash and kill everybody connected to Matrix, which will be followed by the extinciton of the entire human race, at least this is what the architect says, which I think the last one is bullshit, is also known by the left door.Neo chooses the left door, unlike the other 5 Ones, and saves Zion by cooperating with Deus Ex Machina.I believe Morpheus' time is the 6th One's time, and he has never seen the other 5 ones unlike

Your theory does not include Smith while he is the primary reason why the machines make a truce with Zion...

In fact it does include but I didn't write it because it is easy to understand.Smith was only part of the system at all the times of 6 ones.He had learned much from Neo and when he gets beaten at the end of M1, he rejects to return to the Source, he stays and becomes an exile and later on, he gets more and more powerful.It is possible that he was deleted 5 times and a better Smith was created instead of him, and maybe his name was different or maybe he didn't have a chance to get beaten by the one or even the one wasn't as powerful as the first form of Neo's oneity(not the super-one after he gets to the source),which we don't know even one of them.But we know that it was a chance that Smith learned to copy himself and at last he was able to spread to zero-one, and Neo gave this as a reason to make a truce with the machines and he said that he was able to stop Smith and the Machines wasn't, and he does stop him, someway like fooling him a bit, but he stops him anyway.

We obviously disagree.

Smith doesn't want power simply for having more power... He wants the destruction of the matrix. Neo wants to stop the war with the machines...

Neo stops him in the end... But Neo dies while stopping him...

omega wrote:

Smith doesn't want power simply for having more power... He wants the destruction of the matrix.

And I think absolute opposite of that.Smith wants to spread to everywhere, to zero-one too.He doesn't care that Matrix is destroyed or not, as he also conquered it before.Destruction of the Matrix wasn't his purpose anytime in the Trilogy, but the destruction of Zion was his purpose before he had freed himself from the system.If you try to understand it with more logic, you will see that he wants to take over all that he can, besides than destroying all.

I don't use your logic to understand the movie...
You look at it through the glasses of your perception while I look through mine.
You seeing things a certain way doesn't make'em right.. And same applies to me...

Destruction of the matrix wasn't his purpose anytime in the trilogy? You are simply wrong... Again, I refer you to the end of the first movie... Go listen to his monologue.

And Remember what Oracle told Neo...
__________
Oracle: ....You know where. And if you can't find the answer, then I'm afraid there may be no tomorrow for any of us.

Neo: What does that mean?

Oracle: Everything that has a beginning, has an end. I see the end coming. I see the darkness spreading. I see death. And you are all that stands in his way.

Neo: Smith.

Oracle: Very soon he's going to have the power to destroy this world. But I believe he won't stop there, he can't. He won't stop until there's nothing left at all.
Neo: What is he?

Oracle: He is you, your opposite, your negative, the result of the equation trying to balance itself out.

Neo: And if I can't stop him.

Oracle: One way or another, Neo, this war is going to end. Tonight, the future of both worlds will be in your hands or in his.
_________

He won't stop until there's nothing left at all. - That's not the destruction of the matrix to you?

omega wrote:

He won't stop until there's nothing left at all.

If this is true then his purpose was to destroy the whole universe, including himself and this would be total foolish.I believe Oracle was bullshitting since the beginning, shitting prophecies or whatever crap, but she knows the existence of the real world and she must have meant the whole thing, whole humans and whole machines, whole existence.

no, you are wrong again...
All he can destroy is Zion and the matrix... Possbily the Earth...
Technology is not available to destroy anything else...

Why do you have a porblem with Smith? Maybe it is a problem within you?

No and just as opposite, I don't see Smith as a problem.He is just another guy copying himself, having fun etc.I don't know why the Brothers made Smith so important, he found a way to copy himself, this is just lame.There is no explication.Neo's offering him to beat Smith in exchange of peace is just a coincidence.Smith's last position is just a hurried script, it doesn't fit the story.That's why people don't like Revolutions, half is human vs machine, half is Smith.

In order to understand Smith and his purpose you have to look at all of the movies as a whole. You can't pull from one movie for an overall conclusion about a character. The coolest thing about the movies is that the characters grow. It's not just a cash cow with cool fx. There is a definite story there. It is a story of enlightenment, a fight between the spiritual and the animal, which is exactly what man is. You must remember that Smith is Neo, Neo is Smith. Yin/yang, light/dark, hot/cold they can not exist without each other. If there was no Smith why would Neo be needed? What threat is there? Yeah, the destruction of Zion is there but like you said, it could have been an opportunity for the machines to halt whatever progress humanity had made and for the matrix to upgrade itself. But how would that have been different from the other 5 times? Neo's emergence in the matrix and his being different than the other Ones caused Smith to grow. The stronger Neo got the stronger Smith had to become. He's Neo's opposite. Neo didn't follow suit and return to the source like he should have, neither did Smith. FATAL ERROR, SYSTEM CRASH. Smith takes over. If anyone is to have a chance, man or machine, they have to set things right. The fight between S-n-N at the end of Rev. was neccesary for three reasons.
1.) It would save Zion. I save your ass, you spare ours.
2.) It would set the matrix right. Neo entered the matrix for the last time, from machine city, not a broadcast deck. He entered directly from the source. Neo had to take Smith back with him. They're two sides of the same coin.
3.) It established Neo's spirituality. He fought because he chose to. He saved Trinity because he chose to. He gave into Smith because he chose to. He's not programmed, there's no such thing as fate or destiny. He understood the illusions of life and was able to transcend to a higher plane.
I feel this last reason was the most important piece of the puzzle. That was the anomoly. The machines couldn't understand it. Neo and Smith merging for the last time imparted that knowledge (in computer terms) onto a floppy that the matrix could now upload and understand. That's why Sati was able to change the matrix and make a sunrise for Neo. Without Smith, human spirituality wouldn't be compatible with the system, the anomoly keeps occuring, the system has to keep rebooting. Now that the equation is balanced, the peace will last as long as it can.

Exactly. Smith is far from useless in terms of his position. He is very necessary to plot.

Imagine if Smith wasn't in his position. Who would stop Neo? How would they stop him? And if they did indeed just stop him... then what's the point of even dealing with the One at all? Let him cause a ruckus, you can just find him and delete him at will, right?


The film was never really about "man-vs.-machines." It seems like that in the first movie, and that's really what Zion was all about in the films. But Neo at the very end realizes that it really isn't all about "man vs. machines." That was never the point of his existence nor what the war was really boiling down to. Victory was never meant to be had in a direct, humans vs machines conflict. That war was decided long ago and humans lost. And Zion would lose again and again. And in Reloaded, all their efforts were about to be crushed.

No, Neo was fighting to transcend all of that. And Smith, being his opposite, all the evil and insanity, it was a battle between the typical "good vs. evil." Although this time the film decided not to go the usual "good simply crushes evil" route and showed why Neo's choice was so difficult. He had to take all of his awesome power and simply not use it in the end. He had to surrender. He had to essentially sacrifice himself to the darker side. Let it consume him. This of course causes the great canceling out, and along with it a period of greater peace and a chance for greater good (so yeah, good still basically quenches evil), but it showed that it doesn't come without a serious price. The physical fight was just to show how futile it all was. Neo had passion. Smith had passion. They demonstrated that they had almost limitless power in the Matrix, but Neo soon figured out that the fight really was useless. That the only way foward was as the Oracle said... together. So he sacrificed himself for the good cause.

Hey file-core...
Again, please refer to the dialogue between Neo and Oracle that I posted...
Does it look like Smith is having fun copying himself?
Do you have a problem that he is the only one with a sence of humor?
He is not evil... He is as much of a creation of Oracle as is Neo...

So then this is Smith's existence's purpose.His existence's purpose is to balance the good evil equation and letting Neo have a chance to save Zion's ass.But Smith's own purpose is to destroy all.But after all Smith was necessary in the story, the problem is that he is not aware of it.

Smith was absolutely necessary for the story, because if it wasn't for him, ZIon would have been destroyed by the machines and humanity annihilated...

Neo is so damn lucky .Other ones didn't have the chance

If you want the most complex character in the trilogy, look to the Oracle. But we'll discuss that when Smith is settled.

To begin....We have to go back to the Matrix, the movie that started it all.

Remember when Smith was in the room by himself with Morpheus? He was drugging Morpheus so Morpheus would give him the access codes to the Zion mainframe. But Smith wasn't just asking for those codes....he was begging. He went as far as explaining his hatred for the human race, which 'smells' and lacks the perfection that a Utopia has. In other words, he hates humans because they're not perfect....They seem to be running around without PURPOSE.

...But that's not the most important part of this scene. The key part is when Smith is saying that he must escape the Matrix, the prison he's trapped in. And the only way he can do this is by fulfilling his PURPOSE, which is getting the access codes to the Zion mainframe. So Smith's sense of urgency to get the codes makes sense....he wants to get out of the Matrix which is inhabited by imperfect humans.

Fast forward now to the end of the movie.

Smith kills Neo. Keep in mind that Smith never did get those access codes....he never fulfilled his purpose. But something happens. Trinity kisses Neo, and Neo gets back up. Neo destroys Smith....Smith BREAKS DOWN....

I capitalized BREAKS DOWN because this is one of the ways that programs face deletion, according to the Oracle's speech in Reloaded. So Smith was facing deletion....Isn't deletion an escape? Isn't deletion what Smith WANTS?

Yes, it is. But Smith was compelled to stay....compelled to disobey....Smith is SIN.

After Smith broke down, he had a choice. He could either face deletion (which is what he used to want) or he could stay and DISOBEY. Smith chose the latter. He realized that when Neo destroyed him, part of Neo's code printed onto him, giving Smith super powers. His most useful super power was becoming a virus....he could copy himself onto other people and spread destruction. He was the prime epitome of sin, for sin is something that EVERYBODY performs....and it's clear that Smith had taken over EVERYBODY by the end of the Matrix Revolutions.

"He is you....your opposite, your negative" - The Oracle

The Oracle's words about Smith and Neo here are very meaningful. The Oracle is basically saying that Smith can't exist without Neo, but Neo can't exist without Smith. It's the yin/yang thing that people talk about. I can go even deeper with this idea, but now we're getting into symbolism....which is more of opinion, not fact.

I think that sin buries people from the simple and obvious truth....the truth is that everything that has a beginning has an end. This is why Smith couldn't see past his choice of taking over Neo....he was so boggled up in his own sinful actions that he didn't realize what he was doing. Because of this, he copied over Neo....Since Neo was plugged into the Source, the machines used him as a sacrifice to destroy Smith. Neo was the cure for the virus, the Jesus Christ.

Neo is not Jesus... Period...
Jesus didn't kill anyone... Neo kills thousands in the movie...
Jesus said turn the other cheek... Neo said: we need weapons...

He is a representation of Jesus. I'm not saying he IS Jesus.

Just because he killed people doesn't mean that it disqualifies him from this position.

Neo's situation was more complex than Jesus's. He couldn't just do what Jesus did to save the day. He had to fight the system....and ANYBODY inhabited by the Matrix itself was, at the time, an ENEMY....

When the power surges go through Neo, you can see the cross made of light formed.

omega:

"Neo is not Jesus... Period...
Jesus didn't kill anyone... Neo kills thousands in the movie...
Jesus said turn the other cheek... Neo said: we need weapons..."

But Jesus also turned away a woman who desperately asked for his help simply because she wasn't a Jew (he only ended up helping her *after* the Apostles begged him to and *after* he got one final insult in at her). Don't forget that it was also Jesus who very primitively (and very stupidly, I might add) took out his anger on a fig tree for not providing food for him when he was hungry.

Don't forget that although he is primarily depicted as a patient, insightful, and saintly individual, Jesus also displays some of the most primitive and contradictory behaviors possible, as well. (A theme which isn't limited to Christianity, I might add.)

msunyata

BigMista wrote:

When the power surges go through Neo, you can see the cross made of light formed.

Yes this is true we can see a remake of Jesus dying on the cross.Neo died for something, the lives of all the people, so Jesus has to be dead for something.I don't know what he died for because i'm not cristian but he surely died for something.

bigmista..
Neo did not fight the system... Agent Smith did.
Neo ended up supporting the system, so he is not a saviour by any means...

But again, I think that jesus was a philosopher, not a prophet, and, more importantly, not a son of god...

Same applies to Mohammed... How do we know it wasn't the devil whispering into his ears?

Mohammed wasn't any Devil connected person, he never was.And he was certainly NOT son of God. Only Islam has the unchanged original holy book of its own, Christianity and Jewish (I don't know their noun) do not have the original holy book now, because they were not written down as they arrived.They were changed by it's writers' opinions afterwards.But opposite of that, Islam was written down after it's arrival had completed, in Mohammed's lifetime.And Q'ur-an tells us that Mohammed was a perfect human, but he was not half-god or anything like it.

And Q'ur-an tells us that Mohammed is the last prophet and there won't be any other prophets or messiahs.And it is a universal religion, it hadn't been sent to any specific civilisation.Believe what you want, but I think Islam is the perfect religion.

MATRIX_FILE_CORE:

"I have a theory but I'm not sure if it's true."

Well, then, let's take a look, shall we?

"The other choice is the One is sent to save his girlfriend..."

Since Neo is the only One to have a significant other, your statement should have *Neo* as the subject instead of *the One*.

"...the Machines would destroy Zion and wouldn't let the humans rebuild it..."

Actually, all the evidence we have points to the fact that the Machines themselves construct each Zion -- not the humans.

"...and this would cause a system crash, killing everybody connected to Matrix."

No, the One's choosing the other door wouldn't cause the system crash -- it would allow it to happen. The crash's origin lies in the very act of giving every human constituent of the Matrix the choice of whether or not he is going to accept or reject its programming.

"I believe Morpheus's time is the sixth One's time, and he has never seen the other five Ones..."

Seeing as how there is no less than a century separating each One, *of course* Morpheus wouldn't have been around to see them all (or more than one, for that matter).

"[...] The Machines needed the One to be alive and needed him to reach the Source by letting him live at Zion. Thus, they could upgrade the Matrix to a better version..."

Where are you getting this "upgrade" business from?

msunyata

Let's look at YOUR mistakes shall we?
"...and this would cause a system crash, killing everybody connected to Matrix."

these were the Architect's original words.

"...the Machines would destroy Zion and wouldn't let the humans rebuild it..."

these are the Architect's words:"after that, you will be asked to choose from Matrix 23 individuals, 7 male 16 female to rebuild Zion.."

He doesn't mention that machines rebuild Zion.

"The crash's origin lies in the very act of giving every human constituent of the Matrix the choice of whether or not he is going to accept or reject its programming. "

This doesn't kill everybody connected to Matrix.As we can see at M3, this allows only people who want to get out to be freed.

"Where are you getting this "upgrade" business from?"

because there wouldn't be any reason to reboot matrix.Architect mentions about "versions" and in programming, every new version upgrades the older version.

"Seeing as how there is no less than a century separating each One, *of course* Morpheus wouldn't have been around to see them all (or more than one, for that matter). "

I said that because dictionary-of-matrix said different.I wanted to explain my opinion against that statement, anybody could understand that Morpheus cannot be 700 years old.

Others are no mistakes at all.If you could stop trying to find my mistakes we could create a good discussion here.