»How do the rest of the machine race spend their time?«

I guess I just found another thing to twist my brain with...

What does the rest of the machine race spend their time?

We know that many sentinels are swooping around below ground searching for humans, but what about the rest?

Are they trying to fix the sky/finding alternate power sources?
Are they trying to reach other planets and spread across the universe?
Are they bored? And thats why they need the Matrix?

emp wrote:

I guess I just found another thing to twist my brain with...

A splinter in your mind?

Well let's say the machines have fun, and now?

No, really, we don't know what's happening in 01. It has been proposed that Zion is 01 (Zzzi-on = Zzzero-One), what this may turn out wrong.

We simply don't know.

I guess my point is that there are so many logical errors in the way machines behave regarding their energy-supply (which is supposed to be reason the Matrix was created), that we can conclude that the "humans as energy source" theory can be completely discarded.

Which again makes it easier to get to the real truth about what Larry and Andy was thinking.

The energy source may truly be a red herring. As I've said before, machines are massively efficienct. But, can they be creative. To ask the question about what do machines do, implies they have a purpose. It best they're simply trying to survive with the plight they've put themselves in by creating and maintaining the Matrix. There's a massive construct to attend to, so there's got to be more to it than simply energy production. The Wachowski's haven't showed us all of the cards yet.

Despite this "Getting energy from human bodies is inefficient" there is another thought: "Is this energy enough?"

My god how many times per day do you have to eat? A lot. And this is only to keep your body alive.

What about all the sentinels? They need energy, too.

What about the Matrix? This computer system need energy, too.

What about heating? Since the earth's temperature has fallen (Chicago -80 degrees) you need to secure heating all of the time.

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Despite this "Getting energy from human bodies is inefficient" there is another thought: "Is this energy enough?"

Well, based on "a new form of fusion", we can probably guess that it is enough of it.

The problem that remain is why the W. Bros choose to explain the reason for the Matrix with humans as batteries, when even 12 year olds see the giant plot-hole.

But I guess Morpheus and his crew never had deep discussions about the same thing at the dinner table... Too bad, it might have made them realize that there is another reason for their entrapment.

The machines use the humans to power their fusion plants. They generate a lot more energy than just what they get from the humans. The humans only act as sparks. That is the premise as outlined in M1. As to why not cows, well, we didn't see any cows in any of the animatrix, so maybe the cows became extinct, who knows.... What do the machines do in their spare time? Ponder the meaning of life.

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The humans only act as sparks. That is the premise as outlined in M1.

Do you have another version of M1 than I do? And do you really think that the machines would create a nearly perfect simulation just to have "happy" sparks for their power plant?

Try to explain why babies aren't lobotomized before being plugged in as a fusion-spark. They would still produce the same energy and live just as long, but they wouldn't be THINKING.

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What do the machines do in their spare time? Ponder the meaning of life.

Really? You don't think they would be trying to fix the sky? Or inventing sparks for their power plants that doesn't need a Matrix to be "happy"?

Keaneo has said that the last sequence filmed(not necessarily the last movie sequence) is that of Neo in the Machine City. The only AI that are in the Matrix are the rogue(exiled)criminal-undeletably broken or agent programs. Who knows how many AI are just doin their thang in the Machine City. Did one of these creatures stop the sentinels? Are the peace-monger AI pissed about the amount of energy being spent on War Machines when they display the grotequeries of humanity as the Bush Family?

I will quote from the movie:

Morpheus says:
"The human body generates more bio-
electricity than a 120-volt battery and over 25,000
BTU's of body heat. Combined with a form of fusion
the machines have found all the energy they would
ever need."

In an older version of the M1 script, Morpheus says:
"The Machines discovered a new form
of fusion. All they needed was a
small electrical charge to initiate
the reaction."

And I say that that's the premise imposed on us in M1, not that it's the absolute truth. I don't know why they don't lobotomize humans to keep them from thinking, nor do I know why they didn't use cows. But I also don't know what's the difference in energy production between a normal human and a lobotomized human. You can't assume that they generate the same amount of energy because you've never tested it. I'm sure the machines must have experimented with that and maybe they found that thinking is the main source of energy production in a human being. Our brain does use a lot of energy, and the neurons in there are the ones that fire the electrical charges. So unless someone can show us some medical proof that lobotomized humans generate just as energy as normal humans, I'm going to assume that the AI are intelligent enough to do their homework. Same thinking goes with the cow question. Remember, the AI is smarter than we can imagine.

cochen (i can't stay logged in for some reason. i think this is why so many posts say guest!)

there are many chemicals that the human brain uses on a daily basis that can only be replenished during REM sleep. A comatose person does not create those same "normal" chemicals. Perhaps it is one of these strange chemicals that is extracted and utilized for the machines Fusion Processing. In the Animatrix, it really showed a good example of how extensive the biological experiments were that the machines were performing.

Please note, that I have added a poll, regarding this "humans for energy" theory.

On the topic of what the machines do in their spare time,
insider sources claim that it is very popular to visit the Matrix in the guise of Alanis Morrisette and proceed to play skeeball on the boardwalks of Jersey.

Yeah, but soon we will have Ben affleck as The One and Jennifer Lopez as Trinity, and you won't be happy.

Maybe the reaon the machines don't lbotomize isbecause they use our brains for data proesing. Thi would explain the old saying that "you only use 15% of your brain." Perhaps humans are used because they multiply and propogate faster than other animals. (Smith refers to us as spreading like a virus)

1) When you say we only use 15% of our brain it doesn't mean that there is 85% unused . Memory is only a small function of our brain .
2) Humans muptiply much slower than other animals .

sorry guys , that was me

... Im the first time here and wondering that the topic about human batteries is still being discussed - although most of you seeing this 'explanation' as plain bullshit.
If cow, elephants, rhinos or whatever - the major problem with this idea is the fact that if you try to pull the energy out of the body the human or the animal will die instantly. The organism just produces so much electricity it needs for itself and if you take it the organism will stop working. This must had ascertained somebody before me...(?)
Every time I start to think of that movie Ill try to forget this ugly big hole of the plot. To get this idea to work I believe Zion MUST BE virtual, because VIRTUAL PPL could produce VIRTUALLY enough energy for the machines... which on the other hand could explain why Morpheus and the others have no problem with this explanation because they do not know it better.
And the real truth is maybe that humanity reached a level of sophistication where all answers were found and all problems were solved - except the last one: the boredom. So they created complex simulations to solve artificial problems. Matrix is just one of thousands of coin-up simulations which are played from bored super humans, who feel no fear, no hate, no love, no nothing anymore in the real world.
( I repeat someone else's theory surely )
No one is going to die because if you do so you'll just see "Game Over" on a holographic computer screen, awaking in a comfortable seat in the real world (if the game ends there .

TO COME BACK TO TOPIC: What do the machines all the time?

This is a pretty good question. What I dont really understand in M1 is Smith's aversion against the Matrix (besides his noticeable human behaviour). What else have the machines to do than controlling the humans and keep the Matrix running? The humans are always making trouble, the Matrix itself isnt a stable simulation, subprograms are going to do wierd things after a while - so they have really complex problems to handle - just what machines like to do. They were build by humans to solve problems. Unfortunatly in the movies were no signs yet of what machines can do outside the Matrix. Outside is just a destroyed world (?). Maybe they like to talk to extraterristrial artificial intelligences like Wintermute does in Gibsons "Neuromancer" - but come on - discussing philosophical theories all day is what the machines like to do?
So is the answer that machines just couldnt exist without humanity? Maybe this is what Smith tries to tell Neo (and us the viewers). Ying needs Yang, Black needs White and Machines need their counterparts to have a reason for their existence. A dictator without a nation is just a lonely crackpot.
Look at Merovingian - he obviously likes to be in the matrix. It is something he can play with. What should he do outside the matrix? Counting stars on the black (closed) sky?

just my (first) 2 testicles
I hope I set some new impulses becauses the discussions about Matrix are years old so maybe all good ideas were already told on this board...?

emp wrote:

Yeah, but soon we will have Ben affleck as The One and Jennifer Lopez as Trinity, and you won't be happy.

ROFL

I personally still stick to the idea that
*either the machines need humans to solve a problem (now or in the future)
OR
*that humans and machines have a deal (resp. that the machines are enslaved by humans) to keep humans alive because earth is dead.
OR
*that (since Zion could be fake) there are no humans and machines. At least not in the way we get them presented.

It could however be still possible, that humans really serve as sparks (sparks parks)

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The organism just produces so much electricity it needs for itself and if you take it the organism will stop working.

Well, I guess if some of the people out there who actually don't see the plot-hole tries to argue, they would say:

"But the machines uses the HEAT, not the electricity" or "They don't use all the electricity, just what they need for their super-secret-some-kind-of-fusion power plant"

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I believe Zion MUST BE virtual

But that is based on that there is no other reason for the matrix than energy production... What if the reason for the matrix is that there was peace at last, and humans needed a place to stay while the machines fixed the planet?

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which on the other hand could explain why Morpheus and the others have no problem with this explanation because they do not know it better.

Yup. This goes for all the people in Zion. It seems almost as they are brainwashed into not questioning the obviousness of the illogic behaviour of the machines. Or they know better, but won't tell us.

I guess the machines are trying to reveal that the real world is a another matrix created by something which the machines will create in the future.

Come on guys. Plot hole? I haven't seen any Star Trek style schematics for these power plants. It really isn't too possible to extrapolate that, because the machines are using power technology beyond our understanding of it's operation, there has to be some OTHER reason for the matrix. That's really a bigger jump than simply accepting that there is a way they are osmosisizing the juice from our coppertop asses.

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"But the machines uses the HEAT, not the electricity" or "They don't use all the electricity, just what they need for their super-secret-some-kind-of-fusion power plant"

"Heat":
Yeah, I know, but this is also complete unbelievable. What happend with a human if you put him into cold stream of water? He will loose his healthy body temperature rapidly and just die, becauso his organism also can't compensate the (massive) loss of temparature more than a few minutes.
Okay, then you could try to just take one degree celcius from every human, maybe this is not as lethal. But the water will loose this little degree again while transporting it through the conductions so it would be _pretty_ ineffective - at the end perhaps you have a bit warm water - but surely no hot water _steam_ which is required to push the generators.

"less energy":
Afaik there's no way our organism could compensate any loss of electric energy. It is so less that you need a pretty good superconducter if you dont want to loose it after one meter and it would lead to a critical fall of potential (voltage) in the nervous system at all.

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But that is based on that there is no other reason for the matrix than energy production... What if the reason for the matrix is that there was peace at last, and humans needed a place to stay while the machines fixed the planet?

If you get rid of the "battery" thing everything is possible - thats why I wrote about "bored super humans" playing games. Im looking forward to M3 but I dont believe that there will be another (more believable) truth behind the "battery"-truth.

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I guess the machines are trying to reveal that the real world is a another matrix created by something which the machines will create in the future.

Hehe, the universe is a turtle on a turtles back which stands on another turtles back... (from Pretched's "Discworld" or so)

FYI: english is not my native language so forgive me if I missunderstand you or if my own stuff is unclear.
I try hard

On topic-
I'm surprised nobody's stated what seems to me as obvious. The machines are logical, right? So why would they create more of them than nessecarry? When they need a break from work (repairs, maintainance, recharging), why wouldn't they either do it themselves, or shut down while someone else did it? Easy, they wouldn't. The thing is, they don't have any extra machines that do anything other than sustain the race. They have the factory workers, and those that maintain the infastructure, and maybe a couple supercomputer scientist things. But thats it. There is no spare time. There are no extra machines.

Conclusion: Rambling aside, simply put. All they do is maintain themselves.

Anonymous wrote:

"Heat": Yeah, I know, but this is also complete unbelievable. What happend with a human if you put him into cold stream of water? He will loose his healthy body temperature rapidly and just die, becauso his organism also can't compensate the (massive) loss of temparature more than a few minutes. Okay, then you could try to just take one degree celcius from every human, maybe this is not as lethal. But the water will loose this little degree again while transporting it through the conductions so it would be _pretty_ ineffective - at the end perhaps you have a bit warm water - but surely no hot water _steam_ which is required to push the generators. "less energy": Afaik there's no way our organism could compensate any loss of electric energy. It is so less that you need a pretty good superconducter if you dont want to loose it after one meter and it would lead to a critical fall of potential (voltage) in the nervous system at all.

1) Humans loose a lot of heat , mainly from the head . We need to keep homeostasis in order for the enzymes in our body to work , because they work best at 37 degrees C . When the temperature of our body goes up , we loose heat to the environment . Our head looses the most heat because our neurons spend a lot of energy (glucose) .
2) Machines would not have any trouble transporting the heat without any loss . This can be done with a calorimeter surounded by vacuum .