»So how old is the Matrix? Or were the humans ever free?«

Yeah man, exactly. "The One" is the person who initiates everything.

And don't forgot that the part of the explanation of the creation of A.I. and such is in the Animatrix.

Neo!

Neo is not that smart... and plus, how much does he know about technology?

I think you're partially correct. I mean he is "The One" and that comes with certain attributes inside and outside of the matrix.

I forgot to add, that Neo is smarter and stronger than he is really given credit as being. I think people often over look this.

Oracle:"...Not too bright though..."
Smith:"...still using all the muscles except the ones that matter..."

Neo is not smart... There are signs everywhere in the movie.. Neo is blind to them...

El Escogido wrote:

I just don't think 20 years is enough time for a "civilization" to be built, like Zion. I agree that this is probably the most advanced stage Zion has probably reached, but think about what the Architect said. He said that, with regards to Zion, "it will be the sixth time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it." This suggests to me that previous times the machines had destroyed Zion a lot easier, and that although the rebels resisted many attacks from the machines it was still faster than previous versions of the matrix. Another thing that makes me believe this is that there has to be enough time and influence for others to learn about the One. If it would have taken 20 years to destroy the 5th version of the matrix, then Morpheus and those of his generation would not have known about the previous One. And those who sit on the council (who you can tell are noticeably physically older than anyone else in Zion) would not be alive. Think about it.

Yes, good arguments, and I thought about it, don't worry What I didn't explain, is that the previous versions of Zion were not necessarilly as developed as this one. Maybe that they didn't even have the time to reach the knowledge to hack the Matrix. Don't forget that we know nothing of how things were supposed to happen before.

Apocryphe wrote:

Yes, good arguments, and I thought about it, don't worry What I didn't explain, is that the previous versions of Zion were not necessarilly as developed as this one. Maybe that they didn't even have the time to reach the knowledge to hack the Matrix. Don't forget that we know nothing of how things were supposed to happen before.

Good point, and that may be true. I'm not totally sure but I think that the rebels have to be allowed by the machines to reach the point where they can hack the matrix because it is pivotal to The One reaching the source and reloading the matrix. So no matter how long it takes the machines would be forced to wait for this to take place.
What do you think?

omega wrote:

these ideas clearly contradict what Morpheus was saying about "100 years" of Zion fighting the machines, blah, blah, blah...

Morpheus says "I remember that for a hundred years..."

Since morpheus can't possibly remember this hundred years himself (unless he has really good anti-aging cream), it must be second hand memories passed down.

While Morpheus may recall events very well, who's to say the person who told him was as reliable?

In short, there is nothing concrete we can use to determine the age of Zion.


Some time ago, we were discussing this very issue.

For no good reason, I worked it out (very roughly), you might find some of it interesting

El Escogido wrote:

Good point, and that may be true. I'm not totally sure but I think that the rebels have to be allowed by the machines to reach the point where they can hack the matrix because it is pivotal to The One reaching the source and reloading the matrix. So no matter how long it takes the machines would be forced to wait for this to take place. What do you think?

In fact, it's not necessary to get the One out, as we discussed this in another topic. When the first One appeared, there was none to get him out, so how did he become the One ?

Also, if the One can't appear if you don't take him out, then why should the machine help him to get out ?
The anomaly being systemic, it means that you cannot avoid it, it must exist, at best you can control it. Don't forget that the purpose of Zion is to postpone the emerging of the anomaly as long as possible by letting people out. So there is no need for Zion to be able to hack the Matrix.

Apocryphe wrote:

In fact, it's not necessary to get the One out, as we discussed this in another topic. When the first One appeared, there was none to get him out, so how did he become the One ?

Oh shit, I didn't think about that. Good point.

Apocryphe wrote:

Also, if the One can't appear if you don't take him out, then why should the machine help him to get out ?

I thought the machines made sure that The One would have his mind freed to ensure the reloading of the matrix.

El Escogido wrote:

I thought the machines made sure that The One would have his mind freed to ensure the reloading of the matrix.

But the menace is coming from the One himself. Smith was born because Neo was. If the One can't appear, then the anomaly should not show up too.

I know I repeat myself, but the anomaly is systemic, meaning that it will appear no matter what happens. The only way to compensate it is to free all the people who wants to get out, but that will lead to a more powerfull Zion and the machines don't want that.

Apocryphe wrote:

I know I repeat myself, but the anomaly is systemic, meaning that it will appear no matter what happens. The only way to compensate it is to free all the people who wants to get out, but that will lead to a more powerfull Zion and the machines don't want that.

That's right. But the machines have to make sure that The One is allowed to atleast reach the Architect to learn about his real purpose.

And getting back to the original question I still like my theory, somewhere on the first page of this. I think you have to take a rough estimate, just like scientists take a rough estimate as to how old the world originated.

Well of course, this is all theory and my theory could be wrong, but I also like my theory

lol