»Meaning of navras«

intell wrote:

Case in point. So now what?

Aw, there you go being original again!

Stay on topic or don't post at all.

Thank you.

Rokk27 wrote:

Somebody please tell me what what the lyrics philisophically mean!

The lyrics are excerpts from the Upanishads...
hinduwebsite.com...

To get an idea of the basics, these two links might be helpful:
matrix-architekt.de...
...and...
hinduwebsite.com...

th3 p4th wrote:

Thank you.

you are welcome...

geocities.com...

And here read the Navras section:
geocities.com...

intell wrote:

Example: Some of you have been saying that the matrix stands for maya for a long time. But when did anyone ever venture to speak about why someone would liken a concept like maya to a virtual interactive computer-generated simulation? And when did anyone get anyone else to consider why make a movie in which you use modern ideas and situations to represent age-old concepts? Jesus is written to have said, "This is why I use illustrations because this people sees but see not. They listen but hear not, neither do they get the sense of it." So you rephrase something that people didn't get to help them catch it. And the W's didn't just make a film, they made a trilogy, some anime, and a game. That's alot of work.

I'm kinda new to these posts, but I have to say that it's utterly useless only to analyse every aspect of the Matrix, or of any philosophy for that matter, as a purely intellectual exercise....

The truth has to be realised / experienced by each person, and so has to relate back to real life, not just an abstract place. None of the great philosophers from the past - Jesus, Gautama, Vyasa, etc. had a handy library of philosophy near to hand. They all expressed their own self-realised truth. The reason there are so many varied philosophies around is to make the truth accessible to different people in different places.

The great achievement of the Matrix is that it has placed many old truths in an up-to-date context, which is easier to understand for many people today. Plus the movie format can reveal many more subtle elements in a way that plain words could never do, by adding a visual and sound element to the story-telling.

It's one thing to analyse some obscure correspondence to an even more obscure piece of writing, but at the end of the day, what does it really mean to you as a person ?


"There's a difference between knowing the path, and walking the path." - Morpheus

horsesmouth wrote:

I'm kinda new to these posts, but I have to say that it's utterly useless only to analyse every aspect of the Matrix, or of any philosophy for that matter, as a purely intellectual exercise.... The truth has to be realised / experienced by each person, and so has to relate back to real life, not just an abstract place. None of the great philosophers from the past - Jesus, Gautama, Vyasa, etc. had a handy library of philosophy near to hand. They all expressed their own self-realised truth. The reason there are so many varied philosophies around is to make the truth accessible to different people in different places. The great achievement of the Matrix is that it has placed many old truths in an up-to-date context, which is easier to understand for many people today. Plus the movie format can reveal many more subtle elements in a way that plain words could never do, by adding a visual and sound element to the story-telling. It's one thing to analyse some obscure correspondence to an even more obscure piece of writing, but at the end of the day, what does it really mean to you as a person?

And to answer your question, for the person, it upbuilds the ego. This, in turn, serves to further the delusion that the person knows enough to stop learning, and subject every "foreign" thought to ridicule, unless it can be expressed to such a degree that even they can approve it. Every subject he/she takes up after that becomes only an intellectual exercise and never motivated by actually trying to better him/her self, because, of course, as far as he's concerned, that's impossible.

At the end of the day, doing what you describe, is an ego-building, but otherwise fruitless treadmill.

And I think this post kinda belongs in that other thread, right now.

intell wrote:

And I think this post kinda belongs in that other thread, right now.

Very much so...

intell wrote:

And to answer your question, for the person, it upbuilds the ego. This, in turn, serves to further the delusion that the person knows enough to stop learning, and subject every "foreign" thought to ridicule, unless it can be expressed to such a degree that even they can approve it. Every subject he/she takes up after that becomes only an intellectual exercise and never motivated by actually trying to better him/her self, because, of course, as far as he's concerned, that's impossible. At the end of the day, doing what you describe, is an ego-building, but otherwise fruitless treadmill. And I think this post kinda belongs in that other thread, right now.

Is this a "foreign" thought to you ?
Self-betterment is exactly the reason anyone bothers with any of this. Unless, as you say, they're only here to ridicule ...

intell wrote:

Every subject he/she takes up after that becomes only an intellectual exercise and never motivated by actually trying to better him/her self, because, of course, as far as he's concerned, that's impossible.

Sounds like me!

intell wrote:

And I think this post kinda belongs in that other thread, right now.

Never-mind, thanks for the help, Capt...

I have a question for you, back on the topic of Navras: how does a person help himself in this world, given that the very mind he's trying to improve is what he's using to analyse the problem.

In other words, how does one know that one's thoughts/insights are not just more illusion ?

horsesmouth wrote:

Is this a "foreign" thought to you?

Is what a "foreign" thought to me?

horsesmouth wrote:

Self-betterment is exactly the reason anyone bothers with any of this. Unless, as you say, they're only here to ridicule ...

I used to think so. But some people visit online boards to get attention. For the same reason people do a lot of things that involve the public.

horsesmouth wrote:

I have a question for you, back on the topic of Navras: how does a person help himself in this world, given that the very mind he's trying to improve is what he's using to analyse the problem. In other words, how does one know that one's thoughts/insights are not just more illusion ?

Capt and Tozy have more experience in what I'm about to bring up but here is a start: A common theme in many of the religious texts is that man's mind, or the egoic mind is what needs to be stilled or surpassed. As Capt so aptly posted to GhostTrax once, "thought is the problem".

intell wrote:

I used to think so. But some people visit online boards to get attention. For the same reason people do a lot of things that involve the public.

Sorry, I didn't mean it like that, I am here to learn ...

intell wrote:

Capt and Tozy have more experience in what I'm about to bring up but here is a start: A common theme in many of the religious texts is that man's mind, or the egoic mind is what needs to be stilled or surpassed. As Capt so aptly posted to GhostTrax once, "thought is the problem".

Thx

How does one still the mind ?

horsesmouth wrote:

How does one still the mind ?

Here's a good place to find some resources on meditating: wildmind.org...

Though, complexity and mantras aren't the key. A Zen Master said chanting Coca-Cola could be enough if you really did it.

Here's what I'd do:

Find a comfortable position to sit in. Breath in, breath out: then count in your head. So, breath in, breath out, 1: breath in, breath out, 2: breath in, breath out, 3: breath in, breath out 4 . Then start again. Keep counting to four in your head. Focus on your breathing, and do nothing but sit and count. Keep your eyes open and be in the room. Do not give in to fantasy, memory, or thoughts of the future. Just be there, counting your breaths in and out. If your thoughts start to wander, gently but firmly bring them back to counting. Your focus is sitting where you are sitting, and counting your breath.

Set an egg-timer or stop watch and do that for 30 minutes (do not check the time, make sure whatever it is has an alarm and put it out of sight, allow time to pass naturally). If you can't make the time for 30, just do 15.

Try that a couple times and see how you feel after.

CaptPostMod wrote:

Try that a couple times and see how you feel after.

Thanks again, Capt.

I have meditated in this way before. However, as a point for discussion, I still have the problem of the mind, and knowing (using that mind) how that same mind really feels. The problem is that, although I may feel calm and peaceful, how do I know that I'm actually achieving inner peace, not just an illusion of it, and that it's not all in fact (as was said a few posts back) a building-up of the ego ?

It's what I see in MX reloaded, where Neo's powers grow and grow, and he becomes more and more relaxed in his fighting style, taking more powerful enemies, and convinced he's really 'the One' who will make the difference. And only when he's met the architect (perhaps his most arrogant, controlled part of himself) does he learn that he actually means nothing and his entire path has led him nowhere positive.

In other words, isn't the very statement "I want to become a better person / have more understanding / be more self-controlled" - itself a statement of the ego ?

horsesmouth wrote:

The problem is that, although I may feel calm and peaceful, how do I know that I'm actually achieving inner peace, not just an illusion of it...

What's an illusion of inner peace? That's one of my favorite Western myths, this idea that a placebo for the mind is worthless. I mean, if you think your thoughts are calmer, then aren't they?

horsesmouth wrote:

In other words, isn't the very statement "I want to become a better person / have more understanding / be more self-controlled" - itself a statement of the ego ?

Yes. Give up Zen, go fish.

CaptPostMod wrote:

What's an illusion of inner peace? That's one of my favorite Western myths, this idea that a placebo for the mind is worthless. I mean, if you think your thoughts are calmer, then aren't they?

Not necessarily. I've seen people do some horrendous things, while believing they're cool as a cucumber. It's because more might be going on subconsciously.

I'm not being overly self-critical, but "it's always best to ask".

CaptPostMod wrote:

Yes. Give up Zen, go fish.

Fishing could be zen, couldn't it ?

horsesmouth wrote:

I've seen people do some horrendous things, while believing they're cool as a cucumber.

I've seen people do horrendous things while completely passionate, too. All you said was you wanted to calm your thoughts, you didn't mention wanting to foster good karma. Do you have a goal?

horsesmouth wrote:

It's because more might be going on subconsciously.

Such as what? Where is your subconscious? How does it work? How do you define mind?

horsesmouth wrote:

Fishing could be zen, couldn't it?

Not if you put it that way.

CaptPostMod wrote:

I've seen people do horrendous things while completely passionate, too. All you said was you wanted to calm your thoughts, you didn't mention wanting to foster good karma. Do you have a goal? Such as what? Where is your subconscious? How does it work? How do you define mind?

Ok, ... goal ? The only goal I know of ... to meet God, to become fully self-realized ... to get out of the cycle of birth and death.

To clarify, I don't mean to foster good Karma specifically, but I do believe, based on my experiences, that the world I percieve is the world in my mind. So if my mind becomes calm, I have a (possibly unrealistic) expectation that I'll get some positive feedback from around me to tell me that it's working. In the same way as I can see that when I'm in a bad mood, everyone around me seems to be pissed off as well.

And it works to some extent, breathing, etc, calming the mind, seeing the results. But something's missing - there's something more; I can't say what it is but I can feel it. And many philosophies say the same thing, I even see it in the Matrix movies. Neo was not all detached and calm. He's very attached (to Trinity). There's a real, positive element required, otherwise the calmness doesn't last. Sooner or later the desire for something or other comes back and disturbs everything. That's what I mean by subconscious.

CaptPostMod wrote:

Not if you put it that way.

Just kidding about the fish!

horsesmouth wrote:

Ok, ... goal ? The only goal I know of ... to meet God, to become fully self-realized ... to get out of the cycle of birth and death.

Your goals are not Zen, but they are worthy if one seeks Deva-hood. And there are many ways to attain them:

CaptPostMod wrote:

Ah, but that would be karma. The ripples of cause and effect that continually stir. So you seek to rid yourself of your karma completely then?

Thanks for all that, Capt.
It does help to remind me that I'm not really too clear on the actual goal.

But to be rid of all karma ? Absolutely!