»SOPHIA STEWART VICTORIOUS?«

IEMan99 wrote:

allone wrote: also, was her paper really only 8 pages? (i have heard/read different numbers) and in that paper, did it give detailed describtions as to how the film should be directed/shot and so on? for some reason, i dont think it did. i also think (am not sure but willing to bet) that the M1 script was a little bit longer than 8 pages. yup, its official. you would lay down your life for the wachowskis, lol. above you said, and i paraphrase: " was her paper really 8 pages?..i dont THINK it did...i also THINK". im saying this to say that when it comes down to it you REALLY dont know. you didnt and dont have access to the court docuements and transcripts. you dont know what anyone has seen. you guys still dont know and when u started bad mouthing her in the very beginning you didnt know. all you had was a website with excerpts. the reason im defending her is because you people didnt even give her a chance to tell her story. you approached it BIASED from the beginning. as humans i know, its hard to let go of things especially when something like the matrix has made that much of an impact on your life. but guess what, things change. and some things you think are one way,in the end become something completely different. like this whole situation but dont worry, you can cry on my shoulder lol

well..it would seem our arguments are based a hell of a lot more on merely throwing insults....unlike you...

stop takin it personal, im addressing everybody. rrelaxx

to the both of you, just realize that this will never end. you're going to argue your opinions till you die.

how can u even have an opinion with out ALL the facts? im not saying i have them either, however i wait till i hear ALL the facts to base an opinion. what about you two? yall just jumped right on to the wachowskis dicks (well not the transexual one). lol

you dont know the insides of the case.. just press releases and overviews in the pdf format. what about the material, the witnesses, the testimony, the lawyers objections, the transcripts, the actual THIRD EYE ESSAY, not excerpts.

no one knows, YOU two will NEVER know. i'll never know either. so stop it! you're NEVER going to see the money. the wachowskis dont give a F**k about you, and sophia doesnt give a F**k about me.

she never earned the money...she bleated like a sheep about the struggling blacks...yet what will she do with the money...keep every fuckin penny of it

can anyone say..."DOUBLE STANDARDS"

i just hate seeing people who have put loads of effort and time into a labour of love only to be fucked over by some undeserving prick

look at the case with grand theft auto

the makers rockstar and dma are currently the subject of several lawsuits totalling nearly £500.000.000...thats pretty much the entire amount the game made...because someone says it was their fault that some mentally imbalanced gun totting school kid decided to kill his fellow students

anything for a piece of the pie....even if you never contributed a damn thing to making it

Did the w's actually steal every single idea from sophia or did they borrow ideas like they did from a lot of other places.
Cause it's not illegal to borrow ideas,and why does sophia keep on saying this is a rasist thing?

IEMan99:

you still havent answered my questions at all, and also you have avoided commenting on any point that we make except to criticize us for saying them.

IEMan99 wrote:

how can u even have an opinion with out ALL the facts? im not saying i have them either, however i wait till i hear ALL the facts to base an opinion.

you totally contradicted yourself in that statement. so you admit that you dont have all the facts either, and at the same time you claim that you wait until you do get all the facts to base an opinion...and you have already formed your opinion. but you still dont have all the facts, you have just as much as we do. that statement makes no sense. it also contradicts previous statements you have made:

IEMan99 wrote:

i rooted for the under dog because of the way yall were trying to rip her apart without even hearing the whole story

IEMan99 wrote:

the reason im defending her is because you people didnt even give her a chance to tell her story.

so it seems that you were on her side from the start of it all, perhaps before you were even a member here. in fact in your very first post you started a whole new thread about the case (saying that race is a legitimate issue). most of the posts that you make have to do with the case and how she is right and so on.

IEMan99 wrote:

what about you two? yall just jumped right on to the wachowskis dicks (well not the transexual one). lol

i would also like to add that i didnt just "jump right on anyones ____."
this is something that you are just assuming, and did you not do the same thing for sophia? instantly jump on her bandwagon and not wait for all of the information? all the things that you claim the people that disagree with you on here are; you are the exact same.

if you take notice, i did not make any comments about this entire issue until after the trial had ended. ( i have said this before, something that you decided to avoid) and yes, i did read all the same information that you have read. (again, unless you know her personally or were on the jury or whatever) and from that information and knowledge of other trials and the way the judicial system works and how cases like this go, i made my decision.



what reasons do you have to support her other than, "because she was the under dog"? why cant you discuss the points that we make? why is it that we make a valid point (several) and the only answers we get from you are "she deserved it" or "give her a chance" or "you dont have all the facts" or "its hard to let go" or "you are biased" (which, by the way you are biased towards her) and then you criticize us for saying what we said and call us names.

because of that i can no longer take you seriously. i tried to discuss different points about this entire thing, which you have avoided and instead just started calling names. i have asked questions that are totally relevant to this case, and again you avoid those and criticize people for saying what they said.

everything that you say is pretty much the same thing.

you tell us we dont have all the facts. (which you dont either) you tell us that since we do not have all the facts we pretty much dont have anything to base our arguments on, but you do somehow? you are hypocritical in telling us not to form opinions until we have all the facts, and yet you have already done the same.

i dont feel like typing all of my comments and questions again, so ill ask you again to go back and read them and comment on them and answer the questions that are asked. not just mine, but everyones. please respond to them with your thoughts and opinions, not by calling anyone names or simply saying she deserves it.

again:

allone wrote:

would you die for sophia? comment on the case with mr. cameron and mr. ellison. please, talk about the case, not me or other members. argue the point i made about lawyers, tell me your opinion. lets hear that the american judicial system is perfect and nobody has ever won a case in our courts unless they 100% deserved to without ANY shadow of a doubt. tell us that large companies do not just give in and pay just to get over it and not have to deal with it. tell us how an 8 page paper can tell a story that took more than three movies to tell, and how this paper also described in detail how to direct it and so on.

there is more than that, so please go back and read them.

stop avoiding questions and comments and hope that they will be forgotten.

also please stop addressing everyone here by calling us names and instead address the questions that are asked and comment on the comments that are made.


until you do, i can no longer take you seriously.

Wait until you have all the evidence before you give your opinion, eh? Well I'll admit we don't have all the evidence, but on the other hand we have enough evidence to say that Sophia Stewart's text is nothing like the matrix.

Remember the link to Sophia's 'Third Eye'? Not only is it badly written but it doesn't bear any more relation to the matrix than other books which were written prior to it. Take 'Neuromancer' for example.

Also the claim that terminator can be based on the same thing as the matrix is based on while also based on an entirely different story as well, seems a bit strange.

In fact, while we are saying that we should wait for all the evidence - how about evidence that Sophia Stewart actually won the case? I've only seen one site and that could just as easily be internet rumour....

Do you know what? I don't care WHO wrote the matrix. I care about who directed (and, if we are to believe Sophia, VERY professionally adapted) it. They are called The Wachowski Brothers and they are complete geniuses!

I think these posts are becoming more of personal attacks against eachother rather than focusing on why we think whether someone plagiarized or not, etc. Let's keep the focus on basing our opinions on what we know so far and not on personal attacks.

I've always had my doubts about this case, but according to what is going on it seems like the lady has a strong case, right or wrong. I don't know why the Wachowski's hid, edited, then destroyed 30 minutes from the original film, which is suspect. And I don't know why Sophia didn't bring up a lawsuit against the Terminator in the early '80's rather than waiting for a higher grossing film (The Matrix) in '99.

I forgot to add that someone is obvisouly lying here. And it will ultimately come down to who has the better lawyers.
Does anyone know if they tried to settle outside of court? Or did that never happen?

Quote:

I think these posts are becoming more of personal attacks against eachother

WELL FUCK YOU ASSHOLE

What is the link to sophias the third eye.
It would be interesting to read and I can bet my lemonade panther that it is not a lot like the matrix.
She said that the neo seeing gold code thing comes from her work I would like to read that and why the hell did she get money for the matrix 2 and 3 she had nothing to do with them(and probably not much with M1 either).
The W's probably borrowed ideas from her like they have done from a lot of places.
Maybe the hong kong kung fu guys can get money too I mean they use kung fu in the movies and the matrix was not the first movie that was used in.Haiiiya!
And maybe sophia invented buddhism too cause there are a lot of those influences in the matrix.
Maybe she is a AI superbeing and we live in the matrix now..And I heard carrie ann moss was called a criminal too cause she came up with the idea of calling the movie the matrix and said it should be in a virtual world and she did all this for a big role in the movie.
Somehow I don't think so.

El Escogido wrote:

I think these posts are becoming more of personal attacks against eachother rather than focusing on why we think whether someone plagiarized or not, etc. Let's keep the focus on basing our opinions on what we know so far and not on personal attacks.

i think so too, that is why i keep asking for our questions to be answered and our comments to be discussed rather than calling people names.

yipman wrote:

What is the link to sophias the third eye. It would be interesting to read

this one is it...i think...i have read anything more detailed

the name on the front isnt even hers...its pathetically childishly written as well...i done a better essay for my english exam last year

Please. All this stuff about "the facts" and not speaking an opinion without knowing what's really going on.

First of all... after doing a little checking around, the only sources I could find on the case were from "daghettotymz" and "conscious hip hop." Wow, incredibly reliable resources. Not that CNN, Fox, or newspapers like the NY Times are completely unbiased... but when your information comes from a news source that tries to appeal to an African American readership, you have to wonder.

Secondly, have you read some of the propoganda getting slung around on those sites. "Where is Oprah, where is Ebony, the Jesse Jacksons..." I'll tell you what; they're probably thinking the same thing - the case is ridiculous.

Even if there are rumors going around that a case was won, that proves nothing. Unless you feel honestly that the court system is an infallable object, then you must also then agree that the courts were right when they allowed legal segregation in the United States. True, that ruling was later over-turned, but I suppose if a jury says it is... then it must be.

But we know this isn't true, and so even if there is currently a victory, until I've seen significant and important evidence (which I have not), then I won't believe it. Period.

Do I love the Wachowskis? Yep, I do. I admire them for the work they did. Do I hate Sophia Stewart? No. But I am extremely suspect of her for two reasons.

1.) No major news source or entity for African American rights, etc., is bothering to support her. That, and the Third Eye is not a significant piece of literature in both size and content. (this is not to say that the Matrix script writing was transcendent).

2.) Stewart may be a black woman fighting the large foot of the corporate media... but I highly doubt in this case that it is a "black vs. white" debate. The idea that the "white community doubts a black woman like Sophia Stewart could write a story like this" is simply ludicrous. If you look at the majority of reviewers or casual viewers of the films... people thought the Matrix was trash! People thought the last film in particular was a failure. People talk more about the action and kung fu than the writing (obviously that doesn't include this website)! No one discusses the "brilliance" of the writing, and so for Ms. Stewart to assume that America is coming down on her writing skills is false.

As an African American myself... I'd like to think that at least in some areas, in some fields of life, we've moved past the idea that blacks can't write significant pieces of literature. Sure, black work may still be looked down upon in areas of rap, hip hop, etc.; but in literature we have respect. And so I don't buy the argument that white media is vehemently defending the authorship of a story that half of its constituents thinks "sucked."

Stories get robbed and stolen from all the time. George Lucas himself admitted to using old World War II footage as inspiration for his space battles in the old trilogy. Should those black-and-white filmmakers get money too?

Spiderman is Batman with super strength and the ability to stick to walls. Otherwise, they're the same guy, and almost the same story, only one has a darker feel, and the other is more lighthearted.

There's a possibility that someone is lying. There is a possibility that perhaps the W Brothers hid something in the first Matrix to avoid copyright infringement. In fact, I won't even try to contest the idea that Sophia Stewart's story may have, in fact, been translated or used in some way in the Matrix.

However, I will say that regardless, the connection between Third Eye and the Matrix is minimal. To the point of being coincidental. And even if not that... does she really deserves massive sums of money for it? I say no.

No she does not deserve money for the matrix movies it's ridicuolus.So they might have used some of her ideas but I doubt she thought this whole thing up way back then in 1981.Look at tarantino he steals/borrows ideas from all over the place and I have not heard of people going after him

well

while doing an advanced google search i found a site with a piece by a journalist called hannlile zulu who claims he interviewed sophia stewart and was given a 128 page copy of her script....i have emailed the site and asked for a copy to be sent to me

i will keep you informed

Sigh... so I did a little read of what "available" material was in the script.

I immediately noticed points in the writing that could be construed as storyline the Matrix could have ripped off. They make mention of the One. There is a girl that a man was meant for....

But these are all surface details. You say prophecy, I'm thinking the Matrix, I say prophecy you think the Third Eye? Or how about, you say prophecy and I say you're ripping off the story of Jesus Christ?

The words and phrases that could be used against Warner Brother's in court are essentially just broad terms in the story. The prophecy. The One gets mentioned once. but ther'es also a guy named I-Kahn. Oh no, you're ripping off of Star Trek. Kahn was clearly a prolific figure in the cosmos.

Also, once the script got into details about "awaiting the arrival of I-Kahn" things get iffy. You read the first sentence and go "Yeah, that was in the Matrix too!" but then you read about taxes, nuclear war, and the rest. The Matrix is a conglomeration of more story ideas than just the third eye, clearly, and I'm afraid the "taxes" part wasn't one of them.

Either way, it's unfortunate that the entire script is not available for public view. I am sure not going to purchase it. But since this case is about Truth... let the world know the truth then. Give us the entire script, please. So that we can find out whether I-Kahn was really Neo or I-Cius was Trinity or something.

<---- Totally unconvinced.

Yes please It would be nice to read the whole thing and see for myself what a load of bs this is.
Thanks for the link,I read it,and I must say of course the w's stole from her I mean people have never worn black clothes before so that must be it and he was called ONE so of course the whole matrix story is stolen from her what a joke.

Doctor Shaft wrote:

does she really deserves massive sums of money for it?

you have to remember though, she wasnt/isnt in it for the money.

it seems as though the people who are against her, so to speak, all have valid, legitimate reasons to base their arguements on. everyone who has said something against her has backed it up with some type of example or reasoning behind their claims.

it also seems that her supporters dont have many arguements and cannot debate the valid points that have been made...other than to say that we are in denial and we have not given her a chance.

we can only be criticized for thinking the way that we do, without any reasoning behind it other than, give her a chance. she has had the chance, and her claims are absurd.

why doesnt she post the entire transcript that she wrote? so that (perhaps) more people will support/believe her? is she scared that someone will take her story and make a movie out of it?

yipman wrote:

Thanks for the link,I read it,and I must say of course the w's stole from her I mean people have never worn black clothes before so that must be it and he was called ONE so of course the whole matrix story is stolen from her what a joke.

uh oh, i wear black often, should i be expecting a court summons in the mail?
what about pepsi cola? didnt they have the "pepsi one" drink? should they be expecting to be sued?

Thanks for the link Anomaly. I enjoyed the read. Maybe now we can actually have an opinion since we've become more informed.

Wow, more crap.

There's an interesting concept in journalism that everyone should keep to heart when they read "articles" or information on the web.

1.) Take note of who's saying what, and where it came from. What's it's reputation, and stature.

2.) Is it professionally done?

3.) Does the journal look at the issues, or does it conveniently rant on about broad issues and examples.

4.) Is the language and argument real? Or is it using age old techniques to draw your attention and sympathy by crying wolf at typical acts in society?

This article thing was just that. Propoganda. An opinion piece at that. I call it propaganda because it's arguments are entirely baseless. It argues for the sake of arguing.

"A black woman wrote the Matrix?" The writer quotes a middle-class, white American on an internet message board. This is an indication of white oppression against Sophia Stewart? Come on, you've got to pull some more racist hatred out than that. This is commonplace. And it comes from ignorant teenagers - on the internet! Hardly a credible indication about much of anything... other than typical American society. I've heard worse crap than that. It's every white 13 year old's dream to act badass and powerful on the internet. Play Counter Strike and you'll see what I mean. It's disgusting... but also quite meaningless in today's world. And it has little effect on the case in hand.

The article goes on a parade about black people turning there backs on Sophia Stewart. And I still hold to the claim... there must be a reason, and it's something other than "They were bought out! Conspiracy!"

Until I've seen this magical 138 page script (without paying for it - thanks) then I simply won't believe it. I'm going to cry BS until I see the physical evidence in its glory. Or if someone news source not tied to Sophia Stewart in a personal or sympathetic way brings out compelling arguments. We have none of it.

PS: A jury decision doesn't count.

i definitely see your point...the article is obviously one of the "black power" "affirmative black action" blah blah

etc etc

very dubious as to the xenophobic underlyings of such sites but the article is reasonably well written

just a thought

i would like to see the classified ad that the brothers put out as well. sometimes when ads are put out like that there are small disclaimers at the bottom such as: once submitted it is now property of blah blah blah, or call for more details to find out that once you give something to us, it is now ours.

im not saying that their ad did say that, but i have seen those before.

Thoth wrote:

It looks like it. You will have to log into the site. slccglobelink.com... Scroll down on the page below: slccglobelink.com... Good for her.

We have no time for this SHIT!, if you love SOPHIA STEWART so much and you want to rejoice in her so called victory, then create you own website, and do it there. Don't waste valuble postings on shit like this ok

the anomaly wrote:

WELL FUCK YOU ASSHOLE

I forgot about the online thugs...

allone wrote:

IEMan99: you still havent answered my questions at all, and also you have avoided commenting on any point that we make except to criticize us for saying them. IEMan99 wrote: how can u even have an opinion with out ALL the facts? im not saying i have them either, however i wait till i hear ALL the facts to base an opinion. you totally contradicted yourself in that statement. so you admit that you dont have all the facts either, and at the same time you claim that you wait until you do get all the facts to base an opinion...and you have already formed your opinion. but you still dont have all the facts, you have just as much as we do. that statement makes no sense. it also contradicts previous statements you have made: IEMan99 wrote: i rooted for the under dog because of the way yall were trying to rip her apart without even hearing the whole story IEMan99 wrote: the reason im defending her is because you people didnt even give her a chance to tell her story. so it seems that you were on her side from the start of it all, perhaps before you were even a member here. in fact in your very first post you started a whole new thread about the case (saying that race is a legitimate issue). most of the posts that you make have to do with the case and how she is right and so on. IEMan99 wrote: what about you two? yall just jumped right on to the wachowskis dicks (well not the transexual one). lol i would also like to add that i didnt just "jump right on anyones ____." this is something that you are just assuming, and did you not do the same thing for sophia? instantly jump on her bandwagon and not wait for all of the information? all the things that you claim the people that disagree with you on here are; you are the exact same. if you take notice, i did not make any comments about this entire issue until after the trial had ended. ( i have said this before, something that you decided to avoid) and yes, i did read all the same information that you have read. (again, unless you know her personally or were on the jury or whatever) and from that information and knowledge of other trials and the way the judicial system works and how cases like this go, i made my decision. what reasons do you have to support her other than, "because she was the under dog"? why cant you discuss the points that we make? why is it that we make a valid point (several) and the only answers we get from you are "she deserved it" or "give her a chance" or "you dont have all the facts" or "its hard to let go" or "you are biased" (which, by the way you are biased towards her) and then you criticize us for saying what we said and call us names. because of that i can no longer take you seriously. i tried to discuss different points about this entire thing, which you have avoided and instead just started calling names. i have asked questions that are totally relevant to this case, and again you avoid those and criticize people for saying what they said. everything that you say is pretty much the same thing. you tell us we dont have all the facts. (which you dont either) you tell us that since we do not have all the facts we pretty much dont have anything to base our arguments on, but you do somehow? you are hypocritical in telling us not to form opinions until we have all the facts, and yet you have already done the same. i dont feel like typing all of my comments and questions again, so ill ask you again to go back and read them and comment on them and answer the questions that are asked. not just mine, but everyones. please respond to them with your thoughts and opinions, not by calling anyone names or simply saying she deserves it. again: allone wrote: would you die for sophia? comment on the case with mr. cameron and mr. ellison. please, talk about the case, not me or other members. argue the point i made about lawyers, tell me your opinion. lets hear that the american judicial system is perfect and nobody has ever won a case in our courts unless they 100% deserved to without ANY shadow of a doubt. tell us that large companies do not just give in and pay just to get over it and not have to deal with it. tell us how an 8 page paper can tell a story that took more than three movies to tell, and how this paper also described in detail how to direct it and so on. there is more than that, so please go back and read them. stop avoiding questions and comments and hope that they will be forgotten. also please stop addressing everyone here by calling us names and instead address the questions that are asked and comment on the comments that are made. until you do, i can no longer take you seriously.

you spent a whole essay trying to get at me. you even went back to my first post to see what i posted? arent you taking this a little bit serious?

and on top of that, the questions you raised previously NO one will be able to answer. if i gave you my opinion it would be just that. you and anomoly name case after case of people suing for stupid shit. those are THOSE cases. hey!....it happens. yes, big corporations do pay off law suit filers in certain cases, but not all of them. and depending on the amount of money involved some will fight it. how much was sophia suing for? how much did she get? did she settle out of court? YOU DONT KNOW!

come to me with some transcripts. some court documents. some proof! read the whole manuscript. find the parts that were missing. the footage that was cut from the first matrix .... if you REALLY read my first couple of posts you would see that i was saying issues like racism, theft, and plaguerism happen frequently and to keep an open mind and to remember the history of this country (USA), because you werent there . you didnt see what went down between the parties involved.

you dont know what went on. who submitted what. who copied from what. YOU DONT KNOW. and if the article that was released saying she won is real and she did have influence over the matrix, dont you think she deserves the judgement that she got (knowing the wachowskis had a dream team of lawyers backing them) was fair?

that fact is you dont know if this is one of those stupid cases due to the fact that you werent there, at all. you're just hoping in the back of your mind that it isnt so.

does anyone know the wachowski brothers personally? i'd like to find out what kind of people they are? does anyone know of any interviews that they have done that i might have not seen? maybe somethin in the dvd specials that i skipped by accident. something? something; i'd like to know their thought process behind the matrix? my guess is that none of you have seen, or heard from them in any interviews..why is that? answer that!

you (a lot of you) jump to their defense like they are related to you or something. it still registers as denial to me. that your prescious matrix trilogy couldve been part of someone elses idea. an un-heard-of black woman. wait, and she cries racism! Thats IMpoSSible! she has to be crazy! . lol well guess what....it is possible.


the matrix was an excellent movie. a lot of critics hated it, but the intillectuals loved it. it is a great story in and of itself. however, if sophia stewart had ANY influence over the story..in any way (has anyone seen the comic book drawings?) then she is entitled to monetary compensation. dont you agree?