»Zion is definatly another matrix«

That is the last line that Morpheus speaks in Revolutions. If Morpheus (the God of Dreams) isn't sure, then it leaves some questions open.

No it doesen't. He has been waiting for that moment for a long time and now that it has come he can't really believe it's true. I'm sure everyone has had these feelings when good or bad stuff has happened, like if someone close to you were to die you would not believe it at first but it would have to sink in over time. Same with Morpheus and the peace, he has just found out the war is over and it is going to take some time to really grasp it.

Wow, just read through all of this. Its very interesting. I'm new to these forums but am a big Matrix fan so here's my view on it, although most of it is repeating what other people say.

In M1, Morpheous says that there was a man born inside the matrix who had the ability to change things however he saw fit and he freed the first people into zion. This man born inside is obviously the previous one and he obviously chose the other door to neo in the architect's room and selected the people from the matrix.

We then have the one percent of people that do not accept the program. These are the people who feel something is not right such as Morpheous, Kid and Trinity. However, why on earth would the matrix let them out? Why would a phone allow them to leave the matrix. What is difference in terms of the matrix between a phone and a hot dog? The system is there to isolate the people who feel something is wrong and allow them to believe that they are fighting against the system, when really they are no more free than before.

"The function of the One is now to return to the Source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program." Is Neo a program? This is interesting. I don't believe Neo is a program because, "although the process has altered [neo's] consciousness, [neo] remains irrevocably human". However, I agree that he does carry specific code which is the system controlling him. His entire life has been controlled so that he can lead events to the destruction of zion and the restart of the matrix.

I give you, the system:

The Matrix: Every human being is plugged into this virtual reality simulation. 99% of them accept "the world as we know it". 1% of them do not and have to be dealt with. they are sent to anotbher part of the matrix, namely...

Zion World: The place for the rejectors. They are here to feel that they are free and so pose no immediate threat to the system but have to be wiped out periodically by the...

Machines: The killing devices used in the Zion world. However, if my views are correct, there is no evidence that Humans are being used as power or that the machines look anything like they do. Also, in Animatrix, the Second Renaisance data comes from the Zion Archive. If Zion is fake, this information is also fake.

The One: The core component of the system. His entire life has been controlled to a large extent [not fully] by the system. Everybody is given a purpose by the system and his is to get into the Zion world and change events in a way that allow for the removal of the unstable people (the Zion citizens).


This has mostly been said already, but it's written in a different way which may be of benefit to others, who knows. I think the interesting thing to come out of this though is:

If there is a matrix whithin a matrix, the second renasiance is a load of rubbish. Who agrees?

Great point Quintessential, that would mean that the second renaissance is nothing but a big waste of time and a load of crap. No I think the real world is real and if Zion was another Matrix then the rebels would feel that there was something wrong there too. Think about it, if you were freed from the matrix today, if this reality was a simulation, and you ended up in another place, would you ever completely trust your surroundings again ?.

Hey, i've just thought of something else.

You know at the end of revolutions when Neo is going to see the machine god? He sees all the machine stuff in gold code right? But obviously his body isn't a part of that, so when we see him looking at his feet whilst he's walking, his legs and feet appear as black because they're blocking his view of the machine stuff.

He's wearing a blindfold....

How come he can see through that but not his feet?

I just wanted to say that I am very happy to see someone with an explanation like jaxdevil's. I have been thinking about the Matrix and trying to come to a conclusion since M1. I had come to almost the same conclusion as you jax, but I knew it would result in a lot of arguments if I posted it.

Just wanted to say Bravo! For posting your thoughts in spite of the inevitable resistance everyone would have to them. At one time I had a lot of information to back up your take on things, but a hard drive crash destoyed it.

After finding out someone else is on the same track, I feel compelled to find the info once again. I will make the info available whan I have gathered it all again. If you would like it.

I would like to leave everyone with a riddle. This is a puzzle that is just like the Matrix Movies.

A man lives on the 50th floor of his building. When it is not raining he takes the elevator to the first floor. Goes to work. Then he returns. Takes the elevator to the 25th floor, and takes the stairs to the 50th floor. When it is raining he returns and takes the elevator all the way to the 50th floor.

Just like the Matrix trilogy, everything you need is present. If you can bend your thinking you will find the answer.
Enjoy.

If Zion is a matrix and the matrix is a matrix then that pretty much makes sitting through the trilogy a complete waste of time because in the end nothing happened. It would just be a bunch of movies about a bunch of idiots who do the equivalent of making an unbelievable trek from Texas to Mississippi in order to get out of the United States.

YEAH! WE DID IT! THE WAR IS OVER!

Kind of makes you want to start throwing your popcorn and sodas up at the screen.

Dumb ass Zionites

Trust me, I know how it frustrates you. But I really dont see why a Matrix within a Matrix negates everything? Everything that has ever happened to you has taken place within your mind. But that does not make your life irrelevant. your brain is your own personal little Matrix. So is mine.

We only have our senses to give us info on reality. With the Matrix we only have what takes place in the movies to go on.
I was frustrated that Revolutions did not lay it all out, clean and simple. But its one of those puzzles that challenges you to think outside the box.

Every scene in every movie between NEO and the Oracle, Architect, Merovingian, Smith and Rama have all the peices to the puzzle. After watching these movies far too many times to admit, I have come to the conclusion that NEO was a program and his purpose was to provide hope to those in Zion. The problem was making sure NEO completed his purpose. This was achieved by everyone around him helping to guide / force him to his destiny.

I could elaborate at length on this, but for now I will abstain.
Let me just say this, lots of people here have different ideas about what was actually taking place in the Matrix. I just personally beleive that Jaxdevil's and my theory make the most sense, given the current situation. This could change, as I never lock myself in a box. If something comes along that makes me rethink my position, I will. You cant find the truth if you are not willing to change your mind. Trust me I have had about 15 different theories about this. So far this one holds water.

Yes everything that has happened to takes place in your mind. But if you wake up one day in a freakin' pod and somebody tells you that everything you believe to be true was all in your mind then yes it would be pretty irrelevant (or as relevant as you wanted to make it) to the world you had just awaken in. That's one of the main points in the movie.

You could dream that you got shot in the head. Does that mean you are going to check into a hospital when you wake up and complain of a head injury? No. Because it never happened. How much validity it holds clearly depends on you now that you are awake. Now if you were shot in the head in real life there would be no denying the effect it would have on you. The relevance, so to speak.

Zion was something humans started to build as they learned the truth or at the begining of the war. Pointed out by agent smith in 1st matrix, the first matrix was a failure. Once and not all humans were always in slavery, I'm sure some were never captured in the very begining. The machines needed ways to use zion as a form of control over humans. After all if he machines "created neo" as some have being saying or neo is a program why couldnt they find neo in the matrix after 30 years of his life. Because he wasnt a machine/program he was a human. Machines realized they became aware of there existence, trying to control machines with AI or humans is impossible. You can only try and change outcomes based on information give to humans. The machines are in a sense acting like us, machines created by humans... If we were programing a machine to do something and it got out of control we would delete it and or try and reprogram it or unplugit. Just with agent smith saying humans are like a virus. We once controlled the machines at least in the begining. When we made machines with AI we made our counter parts and we screwed up. What is really interesting why would morpheus be the one to find the one. If the oracle is all about control why do they need a human to do that. Then if morpheous can find the one wouldnt you say there is something about morpheous that is different about him. Or maybe there is something to the human abilities other then just what a machine tells you we are, or a government, or a news paper etc. Maybe we arent evolved monkeys after all.