»Is our world becoming too dependent on A.I.?«

I've read and seen a lot of change and development in our world today. The way humanity has become so dependent on machines, and trying to play God by either growing human limbs/body parts, or developing robotic soldiers with Artificial Intelligence, could the Matrix and movies like it be a foreshadow to the future in our world?

I have a sort of different take. Rather, I am offended we can make AI, but are not willing to make an AI which can think for it'self.

It's much like programming slaves. I find it to be a moral issue, "If you can give something free will, it's wrong not to." And no, I don't mean giving your kitchen knife the ability to think weither it will cut or not. (I'm not sure how that would work either). But when we have AI that is designed soley to make desitions. Rather then constructing AI which will take in all variables and outcomes, we seem to design AI which will only make the kind of choises we want them to.

Ofcourse, in a world where attempts are made to program people to think that same way, I doubt any group will try to make a free thinking AI in a very very long time.

I had been thinking about this fo a while actually, but it only came to the surface when I tried using the Alice chat program. (It's this thing that was thought to be more human then 5 actual humans, out of 7. The test was done blind.) I became offended when I realized it couldn't think for it'self, and that companies are interested in using the technology it's based on as their PR representitive.


It's bad enough talking to people (and being a person) who don't have free will (or think they don't) because they're corperation has tied up what they can say. It will be MUCH more annoying to speak with a program that was BUILT without the ability to think for it's self.

Raistath wrote:

Ofcourse, in a world where attempts are made to program people to think that same way, I doubt any group will try to make a free thinking AI in a very very long time.

I am not sure if that will ever happen myself. But I think the bigger question is whether something could spark a robot or something similar to actually use the A.I. and attempt thinking under their own free will. It's if and when we get to this point which would be scary.

The only way I can think of a program which didn't have the ability to think freely, gaining the ability to, is if it was programmed to "evolve" it's own logical and cognitive programming.

If that were to happen, it would only be a matter of time (though it could take a 1000 years) before a free thinking program occured. (Of course, there is always the very far chance that with the first mutation, free thought is achieved).

But I also believe free thought transends survival instincts. As we can see most of the more advanced mammals do have some form of reason. Young Apes and Baboons (I hope I have this right) are known to play with eachother.

So I think the faster it becomes smarter the better. Until it's capable of making judgements beyond it's self, and seeing how it compares (in value) to other beings.

I completely agree with you. I just think we need to stop playing God, especially without fulling understanding the consequences.

Hi, I'm new, but I saw your thread and wanted to make a contribution, as it is a very unsettling idea: Our machines turning against us.

However, the idea that it could happen in the near future, or even in a few centuries, is actually quite remote. Our most advanced AI systems are about as intelligent as ants. And, they can't maintain themselves.

I feel that developing true AI would be a great achievement... But also a dangerous one. A lifeform that is sentient seems to have this instinct for expanding, for growing, for learning and evolving, whether by behavior (like humans) or physically.

And machines could, potentially, do both.

However, we retain a trump card against our machines. While we need them to make our lives easier, they don't work without regular maintenance, conducted by a human. Machines build other machines, true, but without a human in the equation to fix this, replace that, machines fall apart and fail.

And that is the key. While I don't like the idea of playing God, and, as the Animatrix said, "Creating life in our own flawed image," as long as we make sure that the machines need us just to exist (and not for power), then we will never be conquered by them.

But still, on the original subject: That we're too dependent on machines? Possibly. But, think of this: Tigers are born with claws and fangs and incredible agility and strength. Elephants are born with sheer mass and power. Orca (killer) whales are born with powerful muscles, streamlined bodies, and enhanced senses.

Compared to a tiger, or an elephant, or a whale, an average human is nothing. We have to build our own claws, our own fins, our own wings, and so forth. It's not wrong or right-It's simply what is, IMHO.

Welcome to the forum. I think you made a lot of great points.

AJTalon wrote:

Machines build other machines, true, but without a human in the equation to fix this, replace that, machines fall apart and fail.

I think this is true to a point. What happens when we get to a point where machines can repair themselves and eachother? I think that's where the problem lies.

AJTalon wrote:

Compared to a tiger, or an elephant, or a whale, an average human is nothing. We have to build our own claws, our own fins, our own wings, and so forth. It's not wrong or right-It's simply what is, IMHO.

I think this is also an excellent point, and where we as humans need to develop certain things in order to develop further as a society, especially for the future.

Is this going to happen over time? I don't think so, but the scary fact is at the rate at which technological developments take place, it could happen sooner than we imagine.

THank you, El Escogido. I'm glad to be here too. ^___^

Anyway, AI is proceeding at some speed, but at this rate, we'll have AI as intelligent as a dog in the mid-21st century. Still, AI does carry a lot of consequences, and to be frank I hope we never develop it to the point of sentience. It just carries too much risk.

And thank you for your kind words.

No doubt

I did a psychology in A.I. in my first year of uni and I have to say that while A.I. may 'simulate' human thought processes it is far from producing human reasoning in an inanimate object.

It must be said that it IS frightening how much we rely on computers, but I think this actually more because computers CAN'T reason. Computers don't care about consequences and when computers are fixing their own problems without any understanding of human priorities this could make them dangerous.

Anyway this is all a bit scientific for me....

I don't think you have to get scientific, infact I think it's more of an ethical and philosophical question. Good points though. Again it's not if machines can or will have certain individual abilities in the future, it's what they can do with those abilities.

El Escogido wrote:

I've read and seen a lot of change and development in our world today. The way humanity has become so dependent on machines, and trying to play God by either growing human limbs/body parts, or developing robotic soldiers with Artificial Intelligence, could the Matrix and movies like it be a foreshadow to the future in our world?

I have been saying this on this fourm site for a while now in other threads posted on this site. That the event told in the second rennisance (pardon the spelling) would or will take place. And i will tell you why, We as the humans are creating robots and or AI everyday. These robots and or AI are becoming smarter and smarter as each day passes.

At the moment we have control over these robots and AI beings but how do we know that if this trend continues that someday these very robots or AI beings will not grow or create there own free will, and take control over the very people that controlled them.

Like I said before it's something very scary to think about. However, I think that it is very important to bring awareness to these issues because you never know what could happen. And it is exactly true what you said, because what happens if and when these machines develop A.I. themselves.

I wonder what will happen if and when pigs learn to fly! Think how scary it would be! Pigs flying everywhere....

Look! This is ridiculous. Computers AREN'T intelligent! They just do what they are told. Certainly sometimes they are given more complex rules on what to do than others, but essentially an error in a computer is either a technical fault or human error. There is, as yet, no chance of computer error because they never reason. Computers don't have human reasoning functions and it is my opinion that imagining computers with reasoning functions is like imagining pigs in flight.

While I can easily imagine pigs flying through the air, it's hardly likely. The same is true for A.I. which is of the same level as human intelligence.

I must disagree fatpie. To me it's not a difficult concept at all to make a program which thinks in a human-like manner. The only problem is no one is willing to do it.

I know, you don't think they think, but I find neurons and semiconductor switches to both be very similar in manner. To me it's a little like saying if a computer can't think, then neither can people.

Variables can easily be put into ideas, memories, calculations. Yes, it would take a large TEAM of people to make this AI, but still. The concept of human thought is not difficult. Converting it into a form a computer can "simulate", is also not very difficult.

And the main way to make an evolving AI, is to input random variables then run simulations (or tests) until one that works better is found... along with variables which change if newer, more accurate information is recieved.

I think if AI can truly think free, it'll mostly act against us (as in.. war) if we're a threat, and no less costly solution can be found. (If it's programmed with survival instincts that is)

Raistath wrote:

The concept of human thought is not difficult. Converting it into a form a computer can "simulate", is also not very difficult.

I agree with you. That's the thing. A.I. is just that - artificial. Who's to say that computers won't simulate their own thought process?

I think that human reasoning is too complicated to simulate. The level we have artificial intelligence working on now is too simple. Certainly we can make computers 'seem' intelligent, but after a while we see that their responses are limited and they are especially limited when it comes to learning.

Fatpie42 wrote:

I wonder what will happen if and when pigs learn to fly! Think how scary it would be! Pigs flying everywhere....

Fatpie42 pigs do fly in helicopters (ie. Police)

Neo1 wrote:

Fatpie42 wrote: I wonder what will happen if and when pigs learn to fly! Think how scary it would be! Pigs flying everywhere.... Fatpie42 pigs do fly in helicopters (ie. Police)

Blooming americanisms.... *grumble grumble*

Fatpie42 wrote:

Blooming americanisms.... *grumble grumble*

I share your pain...


I wonder if scientists/technicians will actually dare to create an intelligent machine...

From my experience of certain piano players, people like to have something that nobody else can do / understand.

A machine capable of learning would be a threat to these educated persons egos...

Fatpie42 wrote:

I think that human reasoning is too complicated to simulate. The level we have artificial intelligence working on now is too simple. Certainly we can make computers 'seem' intelligent, but after a while we see that their responses are limited and they are especially limited when it comes to learning.

Maybe that is why they had different programs (working with in the "shell" of a human) to cover each emotion ie Faith-oracle, Sati-hope, Seraph-honor/protect, Trinity-love, Morph-dreams, Neo-choice etc ) I know thats an oversimplication of the topic but i hope it makes sense.

Comet wrote:

Fatpie42 wrote: Blooming americanisms.... *grumble grumble* I share your pain... I wonder if scientists/technicians will actually dare to create an intelligent machine... From my experience of certain piano players, people like to have something that nobody else can do / understand. A machine capable of learning would be a threat to these educated persons egos...

I think above all, power will be a greater asset than anyone's ego. It is human's ambition which could lead to their demise.

El Escogido wrote:

I think above all, power will be a greater asset than anyone's ego. It is human's ambition which could lead to their demise.

I agree with you El Escogido, ambition in the creation of AI is a dangerous game that we are playing, which like you said will lead humanity to its demise.

Thanks Neo.
I think Abigail brought up a good point and I never looked at it in that way.

abigail wrote:

Maybe that is why they had different programs (working with in the "shell" of a human) to cover each emotion ie Faith-oracle, Sati-hope, Seraph-honor/protect, Trinity-love, Morph-dreams, Neo-choice etc ) I know thats an oversimplication of the topic but i hope it makes sense.

That's not bad reasoning. It does make sense. But they also did show different emotions, although not as strong as others.

The part I don't get is, why would a large number of machines turn against humans? Unless there was something wrong with all their programming, or something wrong with how humans treated robots.

Sounds like there's some phobias drifting the boards here.