[Matrix Reloaded]
Link: "You're not gonna believe this, but you're in the mountains."
 

Username:

  
Password:

  
Auto-login on each visit
  

  
Not a user yet? Register in 20 seconds!

»Neo kills the Arcitech...«


Forum:
[before Revolutions] More Matrix theories, More Matrix explanations [closed]

 

NetBounty

Neo kills the Arcitech...  

Reply with quote


Bleeding newbie poster
Posts: 6
Location: Tasmania, Australia
View user's profile

Quote:

NEO: "If i were you, i'd hope that we don't meet again" Arcitech: "We won't"


These words are swapped, and you don't get to see Neo actually walk through a door, and we don't get to see the Arcitech again. When we see Neo next he is flying through the corridors with fire behind him, then the level of the building explodes into fire.

What do you think on the theory that the fire behind Neo killed the Arcitech, or if that didn't kill him the whole building level exploding would have.

Click and double-click to resize image
lenno

Not sure about that  

Reply with quote


Guest

I dont think the architect was killed by the building exploding because he was never in the building. The numerous doors the keymaker leads Neo to are the same backdoors Seraph showed earlier in the film. The fact is the door Neo opened into the Architect could only be opened by him and him alone. I believe the building blew up because the speed and anger of Neo leaving caused it to crumble and as far as I know the Matrix is beginning to fall apart in revolutions due to Neos decision to take the left door and Smiths continuing cloning. Also is it possible the 'SPEAK' machine talking to Neo in the trailer for revolutions is in fact the Architect in his true machine form?

NetBounty

  

Reply with quote


Bleeding newbie poster
Posts: 6
Location: Tasmania, Australia
View user's profile

True, but the Arcitech says they won't meet again.

atreides

Death of the Architect  

Reply with quote


Experienced poster
Posts: 139
Location: Iran
View user's profile

Dear NetBounty

How could Neo and The Architect meet again - at least in this apparition of Architect -, when the Architect clearly point out: "The door to your right leads to the source and the salvation of Zion. The door to your left leads back to the Matrix, to her and the end of your species."

Ergo there will be no Matrix after the end of our species due to Neo`s choice.

And you certainly remember the meaning of "Death" for a program as described by the Oracle?

In my opinion highly unlikely.
But then again I could be all wrong.

Regards,

Atreides

Confusion will be my Epitaph
Andromeda

I would like to point out that  

Reply with quote


Experienced poster
Posts: 110
Location: The Source
View user's profile

When the Keymaker is explaining what needs to be done, Neo has a 'short vision' of the building exploding (just fire about to blast out the windows) this is INSIDE the matrix.

The Oracle told Neo "You have the sight now" or atleast a portion of it.

Coming back to the Architect
We know he wasn't killed because he is a program OUTSIDE of the Matrix, remember ONCE inside the backdoors Link cannot reach them. (I wonder how was it, that he knew that Neo and Morpheus were inside then. I think because the time ran out, and the the building didn't explode.)

After the Scene of the Architect and Neo we see a door knob and the paint bubbling meaning the fire is burning inside (Neo triggered the bomb) but the we dont know if this was the door Neo open on his left (we dont see the knob turning and Neo flying out, actaully it explodes and Neo comes flying out which means it was different door than the one he chose in the architects room.

Asato ma sad gamaya
Tamaso ma jyotir gamaya
Mrityor ma amritam gamaya
Andromeda

WHICH BRINGS ME TO MY NEXT POINT  

Reply with quote


Experienced poster
Posts: 110
Location: The Source
View user's profile

The keymaker tell Morpheus "that door, will take you home"...

We dont actually see what happens, all we know is that Morpheus woke up in the ship. IF Link didn't set up and exit for Morpheus because he can't see them in the backdoors, then how did he exit the Matrix? Confused

Idea There was a phone already set up so Morpheus could exit, wouldn't this mean that the Machines wanted everything to happen like that. Remember the Keymaker says "it was ment to be"

QUESTIONS QUESTIONS

Only a couple of weeks till the answers... some answers.

emp

  

Reply with quote


So many posts, I must be correct!
Posts: 443
Location: Norway
View user's profile

Did any of you find it weird that Smith waited with firing his gun until Neo and Morpheus was inside, and the keymaker was closing the door. I think Smith wanted to kill the keymaker, not Neo and Morph. If not, why wait 5 seconds after drawing your gun before firing?

Ogami Itto

  

Reply with quote


Experienced poster
Posts: 175
Location: illusion
View user's profile

That IS weird. You may be right. Since Smith has the mysterious ability of accessing the backdoors, he may have just wanted that power for himself. The building WAS a door to the Architect. Being that he controls the Matrix, it just makes sense that he would have the security of an entire skyscraper laced with semtex. It wasn't Neo's wrath that blew the building. It was explosives!
I think the Machine-King is different than the Architect, and probably authorized the creation of the Architect. Whether they have the same goals or not is going to be an interesting discovery, if they are indeed different entities.

find the gate and you may walk alone between heaven and earth
GSW

  

Reply with quote


I am starting to like this site
Posts: 80
View user's profile

Ogami Itto wrote:

That IS weird. You may be right. Since Smith has the mysterious ability of accessing the backdoors, he may have just wanted that power for himself. The building WAS a door to the Architect. Being that he controls the Matrix, it just makes sense that he would have the security of an entire skyscraper laced with semtex. It wasn't Neo's wrath that blew the building. It was explosives!
I think the Machine-King is different than the Architect, and probably authorized the creation of the Architect. Whether they have the same goals or not is going to be an interesting discovery, if they are indeed different entities.


Yes!!!

Come to think of it, it could be that the scene when Neo is flying through part of the building is actually explosives detonating and Neo merely escaping.... hmmmm.... good theory Ogami Itto Laughing

"The program Smith has grown beyond your control. You cannot stop him, but I can..."
GSW

  

Reply with quote


I am starting to like this site
Posts: 80
View user's profile

I've recently been on whatisthematrix.com and found that the Architect is in the cast for Revolutions... Shocked

NetBounty

  

Reply with quote


Bleeding newbie poster
Posts: 6
Location: Tasmania, Australia
View user's profile

LOL, fine throw EVERYTHING i said out the window. Or whats left.

GSW

  

Reply with quote


I am starting to like this site
Posts: 80
View user's profile

LMAO, sorry! Smile

Guest

  

Reply with quote




The Building blew up because every floor in the building had a bomb wired to it. NEO this when they first entered the building.

knn

Re: WHICH BRINGS ME TO MY NEXT POINT  

Reply with quote


I am rich. Have time for so many posts
Posts: 1662
View user's profile

Andromeda wrote:

The keymaker tell Morpheus "that door, will take you home"...

Hey, good one, have added it.

in-my-opinion.org...

ebooks-download.com...
dxsolo

just because he was listed ....  

Reply with quote


Hey, my tenth post!
Posts: 10
Location: Manchester , CT
View user's profile

i saw that colonel sanders was listed as the cast but before the second matrix cypher was listed as being in it(i assumed as part of a flashback or something) but then the movie came out and he was not in it , and now it obviously does not list him. So who knows , of course it could be that they just use his voice for one of the machines

basically i dont think they would make the same mistake twice of listing someone who is not in the movie but who knows

... and I said to hell with the ham and bologna sandwich
knn

Even the official site  

Reply with quote


I am rich. Have time for so many posts
Posts: 1662
View user's profile

Even the official site lists the trainman bum as cast for Reloaded, although he hasn't been there.

Dreamoutloud

Explosives and cast members  

Reply with quote


Guest

Actually having a cast member's name in the credits and having them not appearing in the movie isn't all too uncommon. Many times an actor actually shoots scenes for the movie and later when they edit the film, his part may have been cut out for various reasons (ie. time limitations, no real effect on the plot, scene ends up not really "fitting in"). So quite possibly "Cypher" did shoot a scene or something for Reloaded but it just hit the editing room floor in post-production.


As for the building exploding...
In the elevator on the way to see Merovingian, Neo says that the floors are wired with explosives. This is also the reason that the two ships sent teams in to the matrix to cut the power grids for those 5 minutes and 14 seconds... so that Morpheus, Neo, and the keymaker could get into the "backdoor hallway" without the respective floor detonating when the door opened setting off the "alarm".
When Neo took the right door leading from the architect, he went back into the Matrix, taking him back to the floor they were on when they entered, when he opened that door the explosives were triggered. Neo just "turned on the speed" and got out of the building before the explosion could kill him.

Guest

  

Reply with quote




If Neo doesn't reach the Architect then he isn't the system anomoly that they are worried about. Think of it as humans minds exploiting the system.. this is a limit to the amount of exploiting going on before the machines will feel the matrix is in danger and have to reload.. by leading potential "One" to the Source they have the chance at finding the true anomoly. If they couldn't get Neo into the Source and everyone died.. he obviously wasn't able to exploit the system enough to be a concern.

Its like a digital gauntlet.. if you make it to the end you are the One. If you don't then no one wins and you wait for the next "One" to come along. If anyone does manage to pass the gauntlet then he was able to get to a point that was a concern to the machines.. they update the matrix using his code and reset Zion.

Psionic

  

Reply with quote


Bleeding newbie poster
Posts: 8
View user's profile

Very good read. I will just add that I think the One was the eventual product of the "anomoly" of choice, and that the Oracle was the one that figured out how to control the One.

dreamoutloud

I don't think that my last post made it up totally...?  

Reply with quote


Guest

Actually having a cast member's name in the credits and having them not appearing in the movie isn't all too uncommon. Many times an actor actually shoots scenes for the movie and later when they edit the film, his part may have been cut out for various reasons (ie. time limitations, no real effect on the plot, scene ends up not really "fitting in"). So quite possibly "Cypher" did shoot a scene or something for Reloaded but it just hit the editing room floor in post-production.


As for the building exploding...
In the elevator on the way to see Merovingian, Neo says that the floors are wired with explosives. This is also the reason that the two ships sent teams in to the matrix to cut the power grids for those 5 minutes and 14 seconds... so that Morpheus, Neo, and the keymaker could get into the "backdoor hallway" without the respective floor detonating when the door opened setting off the "alarm".
When Neo took the right door leading from the architect, he went back into the Matrix, taking him back to the floor they were on when they entered, when he opened that door the explosives were triggered. Neo just "turned on the speed" and got out of the building before the explosion could kill him.

For what it is worth, here is my synopsis .........
(with the aid of some other forum posts)


When the Architect says that Neo is an "eventuality of an anomaly which despite my sincerest efforts, I have been unable to eliminate" he's letting Neo know that he is not wanted—in fact never wanted or intended, and most of all, not needed. Think about that assumption—that Neo is needed by the machines to reload the program, the potential problems with this theory are obvious (eg. "Why spend 2 movies trying to kill him?"). Consider this: "the anomaly is systemic, creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations." No anomaly == no fluctuations in the simplistic equations—and the Matrix would function properly, or at least for the better. The very existence of the anomaly is a major problem; it creates disruptions in equations. The anomaly that cannot be eliminated before it exists, needs to be within a “measure of control”, so: How to handle, the One?

Killing him is plan A, that's why Agents try to kill him, why sentinels try to kill him--Plan B -the prophecy of "the One" and being led to the source (the Oracle tells us returning to the source is what happens to programs about to be deleted) for all of humanity. Plan C could be shutting down the Matrix entirely and dealing with those "levels of survival we are prepared to accept." as the Architect states.

Something as powerful as Neo couldn't be forced into much of anything, so it’s all a clever plan created to control the anomaly. Lesser anomaly's were killed off by plan A, five anomaly's managed to get to plan B but were led into the Source trap, and now version "Neo 6.0" resisting all other controls has the potential to be "the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself."

The problem is choice—
He chose to hope, and he made that decision before he even met with the Oracle. (Hope that he could return and save Trinity AND save Zion)

The situation present in Neo's dreams shows what most people would have thought to be Trinity's death. But when the Oracle asks if she dies, Neo says he doesnt know. Why? Because he cant accept her dying. The Oracle senses Neo's inability to accept it- that he has hope. Thats why she claims he is able to "make a believer out of her". It seems to indicate that maybe before, the previos Neo "Ones" said Trinity dies in the dream... since obviously Trinity would have died, because the five previous Neos that made it to the Architect chose the Left door. The Architect even says to Neo that Neo was the first "one" to experience love.

The way the One interprets this dream is critical to what door is selected. The choice offered the One at the end is this: your friend is falling to her death. But all of mankind will die if you dont choose the other door, and whats more, your friend will end up dying anyway.
Neo cant accept this lose-lose compromise. He cant accept that Zion will fall and he cant accept that mankind will die and he cant accept that Trinity will die. Its totally illogical given the circumstances. Except, NEO HAS HOPE..
Free will; free irrational, wonderful choice.


The One is a remainder—not a probability, I think that's a very important distinction. This remainder gets created by all these multitudes of calculations required for the Matrix to function. So some equation—related to the choice equations because that's what first introduced the anomaly, "choice"—isn't precise and it’s responsible for the anomaly. Once that equation gets executed in the code—or series of equations, whatever—the anomaly occurs. The anomaly is inherent to the programming because of an imperfect calculation (or imperfect calculations) regarding choice. Think of it as: "Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of [choice]".

I’m suggesting that when the Architect says: "You are the eventuality of an anomaly" meaning: "you are one consequence of the anomaly ", he’s telling Neo that he is only an offshoot of the anomaly rather than the whole. So killing Neo might not be killing the inherent anomaly (an impossibility), but instead: killing Neo would be stopping that consequence of it. Stopping the function of the One would make great strides towards better controlling the burden of the greater anomaly: people and their illogical choices. It would also help slow the growth of Zion which "if unchecked would constitute an escalading probability of disaster". Remember this version of the One was killed by the Agents—"with a certain satisfaction I might add' to quote Smith—and the Agents were upgraded, again, hoping to kill Neo specifically. Obviously in hopes of killing Neo because the old agents outmatched anyone besides Neo already.

"Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash, killing everyone connected to the matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race." I also believe, is a threat (unlike the reality of the destruction of Zion, which will happen anyway) designed on a bad choice calculation—the whole dialogue is meant to foster detachment from anti-reality, to get Neo to focus on all of humanity and make the logical choice of saving everyone in the Matrix rather than the illogical choice of saving one woman--who would probably die anyways given the grave possibilities set forth by the architect. The Oracle told Neo he couldn’t see beyond the choices he didn’t understand when in fact, he couldn’t see beyond the choices the Machines didn't understand.

"Which brings us at last to the moment of truth wherein the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed and the anomaly revealed as both beginning and end." I think reads as: "Which brings us here where choice, and its related calculations, get us into trouble once more—the anomaly was born from the imprecise choice equations, and now a result of those choice calculations must make one". If you know computer programming, once an anomoly has occurred, you can't just delete the anomoly once you find it. The anomoly code has been written on the hard drive over every function of the hard drive.. like when you get an email with a virus, deleting the email won't do anything once it has been opened and the damage to your computer is done. The machines are getting the "one anaomoly" to return to the source, "the Matrix mainframe" where the whole program originated and all computer code starts, hoping the anomoly will delete itself and the Matrix will fire up again until the anomoly code is read again and the cycle starts all over. Remeber, the council members are all old, and everyone else in Zion is pretty young. Maybe the council members were among the 17 females and 7 males chosen to repopulate Zion when the previous Neo's returned to the source?
Nothing in the world is perfect. Humans are not perfect. Machines' objective is perfection, so they minimized the problem, giving a choice that 99% accepted. But this was not enough, so from time to time machines must do the 'cleaning' and remove the imperfection from both the Matrix and the Real World(I don't believe in MWM theory, too simple and predictable, and makes for a downright lame story in my opinion).

For "perfect beings" like the machines, it is really a hard job, because they cannot understand the flutuations caused by the imperfection. So they created an 'escape plan'. They used hope against the humans(the greatest strenght, but also the greatest weakness), making people believe in the prophecy, that would lead Neo(the anomaly carrier) to the source and eliminate it.

How many 'Ones' have there been? How old is the Matrix? How many Matrix restarts have there been? How many Zions have there been? This is NOT ANSWERED in the movie. It seems that is answered, but after careful re-examination of the transcript it is not said there.

Architect: "The Matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next, in which case this is the 6th version."
TV Neos: "5 Ones before me? 4-3-2 What are you talking about?"

Please note that the Architect's 'counting' is just his own preferred way of classifying the version (and he doesn't say anything about rebooting - For those who insist that the Matrix has to be rebooted after a 'One' comes to the Architect).

Please also note that at this point of the conversation between Neo and the Architect it is not clear whether every "integral anomaly" is manifested as 'a One' who comes thru to the Architect. Therefore it is unknown how many 'Ones' existed before Neo. Thus the reaction "4-3-2".
It is only later that the Architect mentions: "Your 5 predecessors".

Why do I bring this up?

It has been speculated, that the TV Neos represent former 'Ones', because they say "4-3-2". However, I believe the TVs do not represent previous 'Ones', because of these facts mainly:

Neo and all TV Neos take the left door and all Neos say
Neo: "If I were you, I would hope that we don't meet again."
There are more screens than previous 'Ones'.
Behind every TV Neo there are also TV screens. Thus a TV Neo cannot represents an older 'One' showing the reactions of the older older 'Ones'.
All TV Neos look alike. Since the Oracle lived a long time she maybe would have recognize the similarity, instead she states:
Oracle: "You're cuter than I expected" -when they first meet in her kitchen.
In Matrix 1 you see the same TVs just before Smith's interrogation of Neo. It would mean that previous 'Ones' sat in the same room the same way.
When the Architect finishes talking about Neo's life
Architect: "Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation... Which has led you... here"
as he speaks the word "here" all TV monitors all of a sudden show Neo.
After the Architect has spoken Neo says...
Neo :"You haven't answered my question"
...and the Architect replies...
Architect: "That was quicker than the others."
...and all monitors show Neo making his statement...
Neo: "You haven't answered my question"
...in the same moment.
The camera moves around and picks a monitor with a TV Neo as the final statement of the real Neo, then the camera shot goes "into" the screen with the actual response that Neo gives.
Thus the TV monitors can represent:

Note that when the camera does one of these 'pan into a screen' moves, the slate is wiped clean. That is, once Neo has made a decision, all Neo's on the screens are now based on the last decision, not all possible decisions that could have been made in the past. In short, the pan into screen technique is basically a visual way of showing that Neo has made a choice..

All possible reactions of Neo
The Architect's calculations (=weather forecasts) of possible reactions.
That is pretty much the same as 'all possible reactions', BUT introduces two more things:
The TV monitors wouldn't show any reactions if the Architect did not make any calculations. And in fact: A lot of responses of the real Neo are not accompanied by the TV Neos. For example, Neo says...
Neo: "You need human beings to survive"
...while the TV Neos show no reaction.
But more importantly: The calculations might be flawed. You see from some TV reactions, that 'real Neo', behaves sometimes very differently from the 'TV Neos'. While all TV Neos shout "I'll fuckin' kill you" or are upset, the 'real Neo' stays calm. Thus 'real Neo' may differ a lot from how the Architect sees him. (Because he is the first to experience love?) Note that when the camera does one of these 'pan into a screen' moves, the slate is wiped clean. That is, once Neo has made a decision, all Neo's on the screens are now based on the last decision, not all possible decisions that could have been made in the past. In short, the pan into screen technique is basically a visual way of showing that Neo has made a choice..

Videogame Freak Mak

  

Reply with quote


Somewhat experienced poster
Posts: 20
Location: The Matrix(AKA my Gamecube)
View user's profile

Smith didn't hesitate, it was just several things going on at once, WHILE the smiths were taking out their guns, Neo grabs Morpheus and flies down the hallway, and by the time they fire the Keymaker closes the door, if they fired right away there'd be no way to explain how Neo and Morpheus woudln't have gotten shot.

The Matrix Bunch! With who the hell knows as the Oracle

This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.



Right now you are in a Matrix forum called
"[before Revolutions] More Matrix theories, More Matrix explanations [closed]"
Page 1 of 1

Click here to see all topics of this forum
Click here to see all other Matrix forums hosted by matrix-explained.com

 


Click here for more options
V
V

Search

View unanswered posts

Log in to check your private messages

Click here to see, who is online

Most users ever online was 443 on 06.Nov.2003 10:03

Submit your site!

Go voting!

Edit your data

Jump to:  
Memberlist
Usergroups
FAQ
The time now is 25.May.2012 10:05
All times are GMT + 2 Hours

Powered by p h p B.B. © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group