»I can Feel you Now?«

I'm sure many have hear the theory that the ending of The Matrix (1) actually takes place after Reloaded and/or Revolutions. After reading this theory I have watched both the first movie and Reloaded at least one more time and I noticed that the ending of the first movie doesn't fit with the beginning of the second.

At the end of The Matrix Neo sounds confident. While many might suggest that this confidence comes from his newfound abilities I belive that his confidence comes from the resolutiion of The Matrix Revolutions. Since the movie might not have a "true" ending due to the W-Brother's style, a vague ending such as letting the machines make the next move might be appropriate.

At the beginning of Reloaded Neo is extremely upset because he does not know what he is supposed to do now that he has these new powers. He is unable to figure out or understand his dreams. This does not sound like someone who is giving a choice to the machines ("Where we go from there is a choice I leave to you").

At the end of Reloaded Neo says "Something's different, I can feel them." If he just discovered this then it doesn't fit with the line at the end of The Matrix ("I know you're out there. I can feel you now")

Reloaded involved the ideas of purpose and making choices to satisfy that purpose and at the end of The Matrix Neo says "Where we go from there, is a choice I leave to you."

These are just some ideas that I have compiled to go along with this theory. While I think it is cool I don't know if I believe in it 100%. Please feel free to comment and add to these ideas.

Ye I think that theory is pretty accurate as the ending to M1 just doesnt fit with the beginning of Reloaded and if it is true that the Superbrawl at the end of Revolutions takes place in the same junction where Neo makes the call at the end of M1 it adds further weight to this theory. I believe Neo is talking to the Architect at the end of M1 and therefore this must be at least after Reloaded but I believe it is after the end of Revolutions.

YES sir, I think you just HIT the money now

The ending of The Matrix is after revolutions (not comfirmed, but that would probably be the MOST satisfying ending we can possibly have)

The syste failure message implies the Matrix has crashed which obviously by the end of The Matrix 1, it was still working fine.

and REMEMBER that all the Machines DO, is control humans by means of CHOICE, so at this point Neo is GIVING THE MACHINES A CHOICE.

NOW some people said that the W. Brothers did not itended to make a sequel, but we really dont know, they may not have had a script, but could have had the basic story line, remember they said that THIS 3 MOVIES were the original story they were trying to tell.

The_Anomoly wrote:

At the end of Reloaded Neo says "Something's different, I can feel them." If he just discovered this then it doesn't fit with the line at the end of The Matrix ("I know you're out there. I can feel you now")

He says this first part in the real world, and the second in the matrix though...

He's gonna say the first quote in Zion because it's never happened before, ergo he's surprised and confused etc... so it's worth mentioning to Trinity etc...

You might have something with the Matrix/Real World conflict but I think the "feeling" he gets applies to all machines within and outside of The Matrix. My main reason for thinking this is at the beginning of Reloaded Neo is startled by the feeling he gets that something is wrong and finally realizes it's Agents coming to crash the party. At the end of Reloaded he seems to take being the One to the next level by seeing inside machines.

if Matrix1 somehow comes after Reloaded, why does Zee (the wife of Morpheus' operator) have a problem with him heading back out w/ Morpheus. I forget how literal it's stated, but the understanding is that Zee is Dozer's (or Tank's) brother. He died on Morpheus's ship in M1. In Reloaded, she doesn't feel so great about having her husband or whatever getting back on board a ship that has killed her brother. This chain of events has to put M1 before M2.

i think you're trying to read too much into his speech at the end of M1. Neo is just saying, "Yo fools, i'm the One. Somebody told me my purpose in life is cap yo asses. While i wasn't too sure about my ability to do that a few days ago, i believe it now. I want my homies to be free, and if you want to stop me, try. cause i ain't scared to open-up-a-can on you haters!"

System Failure doesn't totally imply a Matrix-wide System Failure.

no offense. just adding my screwed up opinions

0x587e1a2c wrote:

if Matrix1 somehow comes after Reloaded, why does Zee (the wife of Morpheus' operator) have a problem with him heading back out w/ Morpheus. I forget how literal it's stated, but the understanding is that Zee is Dozer's (or Tank's) brother. He died on Morpheus's ship in M1. In Reloaded, she doesn't feel so great about having her husband or whatever getting back on board a ship that has killed her brother. This chain of events has to put M1 before M2.

I think you didnt get. Nobody is saying that the WHOLE m1 is after M3, just the
last scene (the phone call)

ok u know when cypher and trinity are speaking on the phone running the trace program on the screen u see

calls trans opt: received. 2-19-98 13:24:18 REC:Log>

now at the end of M1 when neo is on the phone to possible the Architect as someone suggested u see

calls trans opt: received. 9-18-99 14:32:21 REC:Log>

then system failure, now seeing at M1 takes place in under a few months, matrix reloaded takes place say 6 months after the events of M1 (lawrence mentions this in the reloaded DVD actually), then matrix reloaded and revolutions take place over 72 hours then

Also with many of the Animatrix episodes having a story arc it would seem fitting for the trilogy to end the same way, but what i also feel is they will never answer the question regarding zion being the real world this debate will continue for years to come but then again whats real doesn't matter what matters is how we live are lives

I think you didnt get. Nobody is saying that the WHOLE m1 is after M3, just the
last scene (the phone call)[/quote] Why on Earth would they slip this scene, this one scene into this position, It doesn't seem to make any sense to me at all..and if M1 does come after M3 then boy are we in trouble.... there will be no use for any of these theories and debates, to carry on either that or we are going to be stuck in some nightmarish loop of going over the same things over and over..........Hang on..M1 after M3....loop...........
LONG LIVE SMITH

also, in "Beyond", we can see the current date is something in 2003 (I aint got my DVD right now to check exactly)


surely, this is post m3.

Checked beyond... The date on the screen at the end is 02-02-03.

when neo wakes up after he meets trinity at the club, the clock says 9:18

is it referring to the phone call at the end of M1, or what?

also on the clock where the 1 is, other parts of the number glow dimly and could read 9 18 98, this could be the day that neo gets unplugged

but the end phone call is at 9 18 99

9 18 98 is 7 months from the beginning of M1 and a full year till the end of M1, so the 6 months in Reloaded could fit inside that year

So if end of M1 is after M3 how comes it is shown on the Architects screens?

knnknn wrote:

So if end of M1 is after M3 how comes it is shown on the Architects screens?

Ha! cleaver thinking

also:
the first call between Trinity and Cypher on 2-19-98
and the "Wake up, Neo"-scene...

who said that both scenes are close to each other...?
Maybe after 19 feb. Mopheus' crew keeps checking Neo out, until they are really sure that they need him. Maybe they are staking out around him for months... nobody knows

Perhaps but it is fun to speculate and try and find a reason for discrepencies in the movies that might be explained because they were meant to be discrepencies...

No, that is definitely the ending. I'm sure of it. That would be exactly like the Wo Bros, leaving the ending hanging. Could you imagine the look on our faces and sick feeling in our stomachs when we see Neo pick up the phone and say exactly what he did after The Matrix? Then fly off. And that line with "choice". The movies are all about choice, so now Neo's leaving the choice to the machines, and at the same time they leave the rest of the story hanging.


And as for the screens in the Architect's room: Why was the scenes of Trinity falling shown on the screen? That hadn't happened yet either (probably seconds before it was about to, but it still hadn't). Maybe the images on the screens also showed stuff that was about to happen...

I_Live_In_A_White_Room wrote:

And as for the screens in the Architect's room: Why was the scenes of Trinity falling shown on the screen? That hadn't happened yet either (probably seconds before it was about to, but it still hadn't). Maybe the images on the screens also showed stuff that was about to happen...

Please read the counter-arguments on my site.

"And as for the screens in the Architect's room: Why was the scenes of Trinity falling shown on the screen? That hadn't happened yet either "

One possible answer might be that the secene on the multiple screens included Neo's thoughts as well as many other past occurrances.

If Neo thought it, it would be there and as you know these visions were a part of Neo's dreams.

Strav wrote:

0x587e1a2c wrote: if Matrix1 somehow comes after Reloaded, why does Zee (the wife of Morpheus' operator) have a problem with him heading back out w/ Morpheus. I forget how literal it's stated, but the understanding is that Zee is Dozer's (or Tank's) brother. He died on Morpheus's ship in M1. In Reloaded, she doesn't feel so great about having her husband or whatever getting back on board a ship that has killed her brother. This chain of events has to put M1 before M2. I think you didnt get. Nobody is saying that the WHOLE m1 is after M3, just the last scene (the phone call)

So if thats the case what outfit was he wearingi in th elast scene of #1? If it's the old one then your wrong if it's the new one then you just ruined the movie. JK. I've been looking for a good spioler.

I_Live_In_A_White_Room wrote:

No, that is definitely the ending. I'm sure of it. That would be exactly like the Wo Bros, leaving the ending hanging. Could you imagine the look on our faces and sick feeling in our stomachs when we see Neo pick up the phone and say exactly what he did after The Matrix? Then fly off. And that line with "choice". The movies are all about choice, so now Neo's leaving the choice to the machines, and at the same time they leave the rest of the story hanging.

It wouldn't make any sence that the final scene of The Matrix could be "forseen" by the Architect in the TV room. If that was the case, the Architect wouldn't even taken the chance, and would destroy NEO right there and then!
That really doesn't make any sence !

Heres a theory - How about this, screws slightly with chronilogical order and logic, but the ending to revolutions is the start too M1.
I am sure some of you have heard about the matrix resetting theory. I won't reply more until i have seen what you people think of my idea.

In The Matrix we are given no sense of chronological order. None at all, we start off with the date 2-19-98 because that is when they have finally found Neo, and then after that we do not know how many days, weeks or months it is from that sequence to when Neo experiencies his escape from the matrix. And when he is freed from the matrix..... how long was he getting the treatments for, his training, and wasnt their a whole sequence of when they go to Zion cut out?
We do not know, and the dates could be of no relevence for the date at the end is one of the wachowski's wife bdays i think

Quote:

When computers play chess they look at all possible moves as far ahead into the future as possible. This is a major task for computers at the moment but in the future computers will be even more powerful. Maybe the screens on the wall show two things: When we see the Neo's we see the computers vision of all possible reactions, when we see Trinity falling (in the screens) and the M1 phonebox scene(in the screens) maybe we are seeing the computers most likely calculation of future events......after all the Architect knows Trinity will die, and she does but Neo brings her back...... this allows the end of M1 to occur after the end of M3

Where did this go....

Anyway I didn't see a mention about how computers can process possible future events, just that they might be doing it, hardly repeating what was already said[/quote]

Great! This is a great idea.......

There certainly seems to be no way of disproving it....

Reloaded and revolutions might be the sixth failed attempt of the one, M1 could be the 7th successful attempt

Strangely, going back to oriental tradition, doesn't the number 7 have some kind of special meaning?

The name of the 3rd movie is Revulution... And that means something changes... And Neo have alreade that he is bether the the 5 other Neo's by saving Trinity in Reloaded... Becouse the Architect hint to that Trinity are giong to die like 5 times before when he talks to neo...

Revulution = Big change over a short time...