»Dark Theory«

Hey,
I think there are a lot of good questions posed on this site. But the name "Matrix-Explained" seems to be a little bit like the matrix in that it doesn't explain anything! [Joke]

Anyway, I just found this site and after reading it all I thought I'd post a theory my dad and I had after seeing Reloaded.

We're not the type to pick apart things like "why the machines would go to all the trouble of making a matrix in the first place. Because the obvious answer to that is: then there would have been no movie and we wouldn't be here discussing the question! - And all our heads would have exploded. However the particularly dark theory that we came up with was inspired by that very question.

(I don't claim this to be the be-all, and end-all of all matrix theories. It's just one little idea we had and I thought it was worth mentioning)

THE THEORY: When the humans blocked out the sun they weren't too smart. Our entire eco-system relies on the sun. But whatever the reason they did it because they thought the machines would have no other abundant source of power. So after they did this and the war was still going on (as seen in the Animatrix: The Second Renaissance 2) they realized they were fucked: scary AI machines poking their brains and NO SUN!
<HERE'S WHERE MY THEORY COMES IN>
NEVERTHELESS they survive. Either by a) beating the machines, b) making a truce, c) made other machines to beat the bad machines. In any one of these the humans are still shit out of luck because they have no sun (and no energy source). So assuming the humans came to the same conclusion that the machines did in the first matrix movie (use humans for energy) they decided to enslave their own to save themselves. In other words: Humans controlling machines that are enslaving other humans for energy in order to save the whole human race. This could have even worked with the whole "matrix within a matrix" theory.

Kind of dark and twisted, I know. But it would have explained SO many of the un-answered questions. Not to mention the reason the machines would go to all the trouble to make a matrix in the first place - the humans couldn't just "disable" their own and suck their energy. Their morals made them create the matrix to make them feel better about enslaving their own.

I also think it would have kept up with the whole theme that parallels our current consumer based society: I thought the first matrix reflected more of how our current society views people as money. Replace the battery in Morpheus' hand with money and the "human fields" with our consumer based economy. Keeping with my theory this theme would continue to fit because there ARE privileged few "humans" (corporations, government, etc.) that DO control the "machine" (consumer based economy) that churns out new products for us (consumers-slaves) to buy - which in turn keeps the machine running and our culture popping.

Ahh, I'm getting all political and off topic... I hope I made even just the slightest bit of sense.

There is actually a theory that mankind and the machines were in agreement about the Matrix. The machines would be allowed to use the human bodies for energy if the humans are plugged into an artificial reality. The scene at the UN building before it is blown up in the Second Renaissance points to this. The machine is seen actually signing something.

Welcome to the forum.

I don't know about your theory, but as a matter of fact, the machines didn't create the matrix for no reason. If you wanna make a person sleep and get energy out of his/her brain without activity. you've got to create a dream world where your mind is working 24/7, even if you're asleep in the matrix, your brain is working in order to make you "think" that you are asleep coz youre just dreaming that you are asleep... shit, that's complicated, isn't it?

I think there is a question mark at the end of Second Renaissance. Are the world leaders selling the rest of mankind out? Or are they have they been pushed into a position where they have no choice?

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I don't know about your theory, but as a matter of fact, the machines didn't create the matrix for no reason. If you want to make a person sleep and get energy out of his/her brain without activity. you've got to create a dream world where your mind is working 24/7, even if you're asleep in the matrix, your brain is working in order to make you "think" that you are asleep coz youre just dreaming that you are asleep... shit, that's complicated, isn't it?

I think you missed my point. I wasn't referring to why the machines would make a simulated reality as opposed to just simply paralyzing us. I was referring to why they would come to the conclusion that the matrix was the best way to generate energy. And the answer to that lies in the theory: that there was some other factor that made the matrix the most logical choice. As I and Akshat Gupta also noted,

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The machines would be allowed to use the human bodies for energy if the humans are plugged into an artificial reality.

My theory was simply suggesting what the motivations behind this action could have been.

Don't forget that the defeat of humans happened around 2090 if I remember well.
At this time, humans were more likely exploring other planets, wich means that there are probably human beings on mars, the moon, etc.

Scorching the sky is too dumb, even for humans. I think that they did it because they were affraid that the machines would reach the others human colonies, so they decided to make of earth a big jail from where machines could never escape.

In the comics Goliath, the AI say to a human that the machines are fighting an alien race that use organic vessels. That vessel had not missiles, it was throwing asteroids to bomb the machine city.

So let's make a supposition : humans on mars realize that they cannot trust their robots and after their defeat on earth, they decide to use organic-based technology only, wich brings us to the situation above where the machine lie to that human (they need him to pilot an engine beyond the scorched sky) by pretending it is an alien race while, in fact, they're the humans who survived on alien colonies.

Akshat Gupta wrote:

There is actually a theory that mankind and the machines were in agreement about the Matrix. The machines would be allowed to use the human bodies for energy if the humans are plugged into an artificial reality. The scene at the UN building before it is blown up in the Second Renaissance points to this. The machine is seen actually signing something. Welcome to the forum.

And the Matrix being just a simulation of the real, Neo represented the one who chose peace, now he was just going through the simulation to understand his choice.

I can't help but notice how evident it is that the movie stresses that The Matrix robs a person of their potential 'purpose' and also 'free will.' However, this breeds a distinction amidst determinism when comparing the fake world with the real world. There is clearly a realm of higher omnipotence that bestows purpose. So, in terms of this emphasis on 'purpose' the movie adapts the ideals of kantian morality, which is, all human beings are not the means to an end, but the end itself. therefore, if there was this agreement between the machines and the humans, then, subsequently, we would be using each other as a means to an end. The difference is, the origin of the machines is to serve as a means to an end. Thus, as humans being the mere end itself, the movie requires this form of deterministic purpose to prove that it is only inevitable that the humans prevail. In the end of the film, however, it is true that an 'agreement' is formed through peace.
So we are ultimately left with two different types of rational species co-existing through the ideal of tolerance. But what we cannot forget is that a specie's birth should be congruent with its death.
If we created machines as a means to an end (a means to an end simply meaning we created them to provide us or serve us somehow. For example we created the automobile as a means of getting us to certain places, this would make a car a means to an end.) Machines are devoid of purpose, they operate by pure rational logic.
Overall, the film romaniticized human consciousness to define purpose and the reality that humans cannot be eradicated by means of an intelligent yet subordinate species of machine. The machines are limited just as we are. They probably attained the awareness of how we function according to the law of consciousness and used it to their advantage to breed a similar yet not genuine consciousness in themselves. The machines just want to be like us in a sense, not conquer us. We are their only means to observing inherent consciousness. This is apparent in the fact that the man (the program) in the train station was programmed to love. He didn't actually love. What he called love reflected what is seen in humans, and so he was programmed to act as a human would amidst love.
Needless to say, I think the Kantian view of objective morality and what's called Kant's "Categorical Imperative" really sheds light on this human/machine consciousness and co-existence through agreement and peace.
Sorry if I added to the confusion. Anybody familiar with the work of Kant might be able to see the message here.