»Why is Smith destroyed at the end of Revolutions?«

On the pages of this Forum there is a theory that it is because when Smith copied over Neo, the link for Smith’s deletion has been established after it has been missing due to mixing of his and Neo’s code in first movie. It is simple and understandable theory but doesn’t sound quite sufficient because it says nothing about the nature of Smith that Oracle describes to Neo in Revolutions (one about Smith being a result of equation trying to balance itself out). So, my theory is next: Oracle herself says that Smith is Neo’s opposite, his negative, so they are like yin and yang, two sides of the same coin, what means that they are polarized – obviously, Neo represents an extreme of good and Smith of evil. As long as they exist separately, equation is unbalanced and when Smiths copies himself over Neo and their codes merge together, equation balances itself and there is no longer purpose for them to exist (which is also very important issue because there is lot of philosophy about purpose) – but there is more to pay attention to. What part plays an electrical pulse than machines send into Neo when Smith is copied over him? It is there to kill him! After the Smith is copied, he is still existent although his purpose is missing. For several reasons I believe that all Smiths are connected with some sort of collective mind because there would inevitably be chaos among all of them if that weren’t the case. But, back to the main problem. So, when pulse is sent into Neo, in the real world bright light comes out of his mouth and eyes and an amount of energy that would cause that would most definitely kill him – and it did. When Neo dies, it is the first Smith who dies (the one copied over Bane doesn’t count because he is detached from the Matrix) – this Smith can’t live on because, as we know from Oracle’s example who spoke out from him at the end (“Everything that has a beginning has an end, Neo. ”), he is only the shell on his “host” – maybe a shell in control (mostly) but still a shell whose condition depends on condition of man or program he is copied over. Then, it is obvious that there is always one central Smith, one who is copied over the most powerful individual of all that he copied himself over – in Revolutions that is Oracle and at the end it becomes Neo. So, having all that in mind, now when Smith and Neo finally came together, the central Smith must be destroyed which would cause a chain reaction since they are collectively connected. One more interesting point concerning a Neo’s dying is that when final Smith explodes, there is no Neo’s self-residual image left while there are ones of Oracle, Seraph, Sati (…)
For the end, I would just like to say that there may be possibility that none of our theories is correct or that all of them are partially true, and we may never find out which is the right one, but then we can still enjoy a complexity of every single event in The Matrix because there is lot of mysticism that is very intentionally put in there so we can just enjoy being baffled with something that is beyond our comprehension.

Dude, I want to read your post, I really do. But please, for the love of God, USE PARAGRAPHS! Once you seperate it, I can bring myself to read it. And I'm sure I can answer this one because this is a subject I am very interested in.

Amadeus wrote:

Dude, I want to read your post, I really do. But please, for the love of God, USE PARAGRAPHS!

Exactly! Nearly went to the "Too-many-words" forum

I'm sorry for that because orriginally i imagined it as one whole thought about one subject but if it makes you happy, here is version with paragraphs included (marked by smiles) but without cutting out anything:
On the pages of this Forum there is a theory that it is because when Smith copied over Neo, the link for Smith’s deletion has been established after it has been missing due to mixing of his and Neo’s code in first movie. It is simple and understandable theory but doesn’t sound quite sufficient because it says nothing about the nature of Smith that Oracle describes to Neo in Revolutions (one about Smith being a result of equation trying to balance itself out).
So, my theory is next: Oracle herself says that Smith is Neo’s opposite, his negative, so they are like yin and yang, two sides of the same coin, what means that they are polarized – obviously, Neo represents an extreme of good and Smith of evil. As long as they exist separately, equation is unbalanced and when Smiths copies himself over Neo and their codes merge together, equation balances itself and there is no longer purpose for them to exist (which is also very important issue because there is lot of philosophy about purpose) – but there is more to pay attention to.
What part plays an electrical pulse than machines send into Neo when Smith is copied over him? It is there to kill him! After the Smith is copied, he is still existent although his purpose is missing. For several reasons I believe that all Smiths are connected with some sort of collective mind because there would inevitably be chaos among all of them if that weren’t the case. But, back to the main problem. So, when pulse is sent into Neo, in the real world bright light comes out of his mouth and eyes and an amount of energy that would cause that would most definitely kill him – and it did.
When Neo dies, it is the first Smith who dies (the one copied over Bane doesn’t count because he is detached from the Matrix) – this Smith can’t live on because, as we know from Oracle’s example who spoke out from him at the end (“Everything that has a beginning has an end, Neo. ”), he is only the shell on his “host” – maybe a shell in control (mostly) but still a shell whose condition depends on condition of man or program he is copied over. Then, it is obvious that there is always one central Smith, one who is copied over the most powerful individual of all that he copied himself over – in Revolutions that is Oracle and at the end it becomes Neo.
So, having all that in mind, now when Smith and Neo finally came together, the central Smith must be destroyed which would cause a chain reaction since they are collectively connected. One more interesting point concerning a Neo’s dying is that when final Smith explodes, there is no Neo’s self-residual image left while there are ones of Oracle, Seraph, Sati (…)
For the end, I would just like to say that there may be possibility that none of our theories is correct or that all of them are partially true, and we may never find out which is the right one, but then we can still enjoy a complexity of every single event in The Matrix because there is lot of mysticism that is very intentionally put in there so we can just enjoy being baffled with something that is beyond our comprehension.

Bane would have been affected too (if he weren't already dead). Bane is still linked to the matrix just as Neo can be still linked to the matrix while not inside it. Even in that Smith parrallels Neo you see?

Yes, Bane would be affected but I believe that there is no way that Smiths would have been affected if anything happened to him, and they weren't. I've already said that other Smiths were destroyed besause those inside Matrix are connected to some sort of colective mind and the one in Bane is independant from rest of them as they are from him.

Well there was a bit of an inconsistency about whether Bane was still connected to the collective mind or not.

Bane attacked Neo on the Logos AFTER Oracle-Smith saw himself defeating Neo. Bane would have no reason to do so. This indicates that Bane was disconnected from the rest of the Smiths.

But during the attack, Bane says `I want what you want' which is a repitition of what Smith said to Neo outside the Architect's chamber. But that happened AFTER Smith assimilated Bane. This indicates that Bane was still connected to the rest of the Smiths.

I don't want to sound like I'll neglect every fact that doesn't fit into my theory because I like to be proven wrong so that we may come to the right explanation what happened but I don't think that what Smith said when he was fighting Neo has much to do with him being connected to other Smiths or not. I think that he says it just because he has the same goals, desires and psychological characteristics as every other Smiths because they all are (more or less) equal. And I don't think he repeats it but just says a statement for itself.

Oh yeah, what do the rest of you think? Tell me because at the beginning this was the most confusing topic for me so I would really like to know what really happened if I am proven wrong.

The rest I agree with.

Bullet-timer wrote:

One more interesting point concerning a Neo’s dying is that when final Smith explodes, there is no Neo’s self-residual image left while there are ones of Oracle, Seraph, Sati

Very interesting point indeed. When someone dies in the Matrix, his body remains there as a corpse (see Switch and Epoch). But when someone gets out of the Matrix (see Morpheus at the end of M1 in the substation), he just vanishes.

Thus, the fact that Neo's body is not there proves that he hsa been extracted alive from the Matrix and that he didn't die (at least in the matrix).

Aksha wrote:

But during the attack, Bane says `I want what you want' which is a repitition of what Smith said to Neo outside the Architect's chamber. But that happened AFTER Smith assimilated Bane. This indicates that Bane was still connected to the rest of the Smiths.

Indeed, but Bane was close to the Matrix when he woke up, and don't forget that he shares a link with Neo. We have seen during the movie that Neo could obviously receive magnetic waves and Bane can probably do the same.
So he probably got updated during his coma.

Bane woke up just before that Smith took over the Oracle, and it looks like he lost the link with the Matrix when he woke up, wich would explain why he attacked Neo in the Logos : he had not seen the futur yet.

Unlike anybody else, when Smith copies over Neo, they merge together because of their nature that is explained in movie and that I've already quoted (they are oposites and when combined, oposites neutralise each other). And I've already said in my original text that after that happens, there is no purpose for them to exist as separated entities any more - and they didn't so that is why here is no Neo's residual self image left after "his" Smith explodes (how ever this may sound strange, UNLIKE others ONLY they became one). Smith is "dark" side of Neo, kind of one that Neo lost when he destroyed him as an Agent - now he got this lost part back and they are unseparable now because he lost this part in first movie just by coincidence (unfortunate code mixing). Concerning anyone else Smith just "borowed" their residual mind and image to exist until he fulfilled his purpose, that is until he and Neo finaly came together (and we certainly know that this is his purpose because at the end Neo enlightens and says: "You were right all the time, Smith. It was inevitable.").
Another point is that residual images remain in Matrix because if they disapeared after somebody had died, it would be certain sign to anybody else that there is something definitely wrong with their world that indeed is an illusion. But, as I said in original text, Neo dies even before Smith explodes so that there would be hardly any point to leave his image in Matrix now - he's dead and in that little period of time before Smith's explosion, he is left as only entity where there were two and that is also why there is no more Neo's image left.
And just one thing. True, in Animatrix episodes such as World Record and Kid's Story we see that it is possible to unplug from Matrix without telephone-program and it would be even easier for Neo since he "pluged in" without conecting to machine, but I would say it is kind of long shot because this theory leves many questions unanswered (such as what's the point of that electric puls, how can Neo still live when Trinity is dead or why doesn't he bretahe when that machine drags him at the end ).

Unlike anybody else, when Smith copies over Neo, they merge together because of their nature that is explained in movie and that I've already quoted (they are oposites and when combined, oposites neutralise each other). And I've already said in my original text that after that happens, there is no purpose for them to exist as separated entities any more - and they didn't so that is why here is no Neo's residual self image left after "his" Smith explodes (how ever this may sound strange, UNLIKE others ONLY they became one). Smith is "dark" side of Neo, kind of one that Neo lost when he destroyed him as an Agent - now he got this lost part back and they are unseparable now because he lost this part in first movie just by coincidence (unfortunate code mixing). Concerning anyone else Smith just "borowed" their residual mind and image to exist until he fulfilled his purpose, that is until he and Neo finaly came together (and we certainly know that this is his purpose because at the end Neo enlightens and says: "You were right all the time, Smith. It was inevitable.").
Another point is that residual images remain in Matrix because if they disapeared after somebody had died, it would be certain sign to anybody else that there is something definitely wrong with their world that indeed is an illusion. But, as I said in original text, Neo dies even before Smith explodes so that there would be hardly any point to leave his image in Matrix now - he's dead and in that little period of time before Smith's explosion, he is left as only entity where there were two and that is also why there is no more Neo's image left.
And just one thing. True, in Animatrix episodes such as World Record and Kid's Story we see that it is possible to unplug from Matrix without telephone-program and it would be even easier for Neo since he "pluged in" without conecting to machine, but I would say it is kind of long shot because this theory leves many questions unanswered (such as what's the point of that electric puls, how can Neo still live when Trinity is dead or why doesn't he bretahe when that machine drags him at the end ).

Sorry for two identical posts but I've done some mistake while posting.

You really do honour to your nickname Bullet-timer

Your text-layout makes my head spin like in bullet time

My nickname is a gift and I do what I must to honour it.

Bullet-timer wrote:

My nickname is a gift and I do what I must to honour it.

Even if it means destroying the eyes of countless innocents?

Good work, and slowly I draw you to the Dark Side....

ok here is what i think about this


in matix 1 when neo delated smith, well smith made killing neo his purpouse, so in matix 3 he did defeat neo

we learn in matix 2 that if a program dosen't have a purpouse that it is delated,

so when smith killed neo his purpouse was done so he was delated.

sorry for any spelling mistakes

Neo left part of his code in Smith.

This made Smith the anti-One.

Positive and Negative. Yin and Yang.

Neo lets Smith assimilate him whilst connected to the Deus Ex.

Smith and Neo are together in the same Shell.

The Deus Ex is now exposed to the complete ‘One Code’ again and balances the equation, forming the complete One. This neutralises both Smith and Neo, removing them from the system and returning the One code to the source, resetting the Matrix just as if Neo had entered the door to the Source in the Architect’s chamber.

Here is my interpretation of what happens.

It is common knowledge that Neo was created as an allegory for Jesus Christ. We could take this further and say that Smith was an allegory for Satan. Here is my theory:

When Neo asks the Oracle how he was able to stop four sentinels simply by thinking it, the Oracle tells him that the power of the One transcends this world(presumably referring to the Matrix, or the real world) and reaches back to the source. This was a power that he had not tapped into until he had touched the source in the interview with the Architect. But there is something in the power of the One that transcends the normal boundaries of human, machine, or program.

Now, here's where the Jesus/Satan allegory gets stretched a little bit. Traditional Christianity teaches that Jesus died to win a victory against Satan, and once he did, he was resurrected three days later, and arose to heaven, thus transcending this world. In much the same way, Neo, knowing that the only way to defeat Smith was to balance the equation by sacrificing himself, allowed Smith to assimilate him the same way he assimilated the Oracle, Safi, Seraph, and countless others.(By that point, it could have been every Agent, every 'blue pill,' and even the Architect!) When Neo was assimilated, the equation was balanced, and Smith was eliminated.

Now, when Smith was eliminated, the Oracle, Safi, and Seraph were obviously restored. One presumes that everyone else that Smith assimilated was also restored. However, Neo could not be restored to his original state, because that would put the equation back into its original unbalance, and Smith would be recreated anew. Therefore, the only way to completely eliminate Smith was for Neo _himself_ to completely transcend the Matrix, the Real World, and the Machine world in a way that, up until now, only his power had transcended.

You got it right. Pretty much.

I said thinking too much can cause headaches. Reading too much can cause insanity....

First, I have to admit that I am absolutely fascinated by AzarN’s theory and I find it to be a genuine one. There was in the whole Smith_destruction_thing something I couldn’t quite put my finger on but this theory resolved it all. I belive it is flawless and, what is most important and why I like it more than any other, it leaves no questions unanswered (or at least not directly unanswered) and it is not contradictional to any information about Neo’s and Smith’s nature that we get from movies.
Secondly, concerning hypnomental’s theory, there is nothing wrong about it, but it is theory about why Neo is destroyed while the main problem here is about Smith’s destruction. The question of Neo’s death is far simpler because we directly get the information that Neo’s purpose is to stop the war and when he did, his purpose was fulfilled so that there was no reason for him to live any more. Of course, one can bring this question to the next level as hypnomental did but one thing remains for sure: Neo had to die because it would be a cheap ending if everybody stayed alive and lived happily ever after.

I apologize if what I wrote didn't explain Smith's destruction as well as Neo's destruction(I'm not entirely convinced, BTW, that Neo is actually destroyed-just that he transcended the Matrix and the real world) The simplest answer is that, after Neo disconnected Smith from the system and Smith ceased to be an agent, he only existed as the anti-Neo. Once Neo removed himself from the Matrix, Smith could no longer exist.

I'd like to add sometihnig I consider important: Smith, though freed from the system's orders, remains 'irrevocably program'
He still must follow his purpose, which originally must have been deleting Neo. He is still connected to the Matrix without knowing so.
The architect's equation is the Matrix' basic code and Smith is part of it. Therefore it must still be possible deleting him from that equation.
Prove me wrong if you can(I guess you can-most of you must have spent much more effort in understanding the Matrix and working out your theories).