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Ken: You yourself have not talked about your interpretation of The Matrix trilogy or what you were attempting to say, because you didn't want it to become dogma, in other words you wanted people to be free to interpret the movies the way they wanted to, and they have the freedom to do that, and as soon as the movie-maker gets up and says "This is the meaning of The Matrix, and this is the source", this really limits people, I think it's a very wise thing to do...
Larry: Yeah, I mean, you make a work of art, and you want it to be provocative, you want people to dialog about it, [Ken: Right.] you don't want them to rely on somebody to tell them what it is, or... it's like, the whole nature of the movie is exactly that... inspect it and pursue it yourself...
Ken: Right.
Larry: Yeah, it seems hypocritical for us to go out and tell everybody what it's supposed to be about, or what you're supposed to think about it, and even if I was to do it, or Andy was to do it, and in the gentlest of terms and try to contextualize it as what it means to us...
Ken: Right.
Larry: It... because, by the very nature of us being the creators of it, it becomes, you know, law...
Ken: Right.
Larry: ... it becomes THE interpretation, and anyone else's interpretation is just... some crazy individual that really doesn't get it.
Ken: Right, right.
Larry: I don't wanna devalue anybody's opinion of it, because they're all... that's, I don't know, I think that's one of the reasons that art is a worthwhile experience...
Ken: So, you decline to do the traditional director's commentary over the films, so, Warners then suggested, that...
Larry: They had a bunch of, like, typical DVD commentary ideas, and, you know, we found, you know, we found most commentary pretty mundane, pretty boring, pretty pleonastic, pretty shallow...
Ken: Right.
Larry: ...and, you know, I'm not very interested in most commentary, and so I started thinking about it and talked about it with Andy and we were like, oh, what would be interesting? And so, we had this idea that... trying to create tracks that reflected our hope for the movie, which would be that the the movie would inspire people to think about it...
Ken: Right.
Larry: ...and inspire dialog about everything... [they laugh] And so, we thought that basically demonstrating the range of dialogs that the movie has inspired would inspire its own dialog about not only The Matrix, but the way that we talk about art...
Ken: Right.
Larry: ...and so, suddenly, the commentary wouldn't be just about The Matrix, it would be about something bigger, something larger, it would have a larger scope to it, and er, so we told Warner Brothers that... "GREAT!" [Ken laughs] But, I mean, how we would go about doing it is getting two critics to talk about the movie, who hated the movie...
Ken: Right. [laughs]
Larry: ...and two philosophers who saw the movie and were inspired by the movie, and juxtapose those two different dialogs against each other, and Warner Brothers was like "You wanna put... let me get this straight..." [Ken starts laughing loudly] "...you wanna put two critics who hated the movie, talking about the movie for six hours?" "Yeah!" [Ken continues to laugh] And, you know, not only because I think it will be interesting, and, the dialog, the internal way that they've come to these opinions will be interesting...
Ken: Right.
Larry: ...it will be interesting to see how the critic talks about the movie, and, that they don't like, and they don't see anything in it, and then it'll be interesting seeing how two philosophers would talk about it, and see something in it, and see something that works in it...
Ken: Right.
Larry: ...and listening to those two perspectives, I think will be inherently interesting...
Larry: That's what I was saying, it's like, it just becomes a natural validation.
Ken: I know. [laughs]
Larry: I'm here to say that your opinion is whacked! [both laugh]
Ken: "I don't know that tall skinny guy, he just came in off the street and started talking to Cornel, we have no bloody idea who he is." Um, we've talked about the nature of interpretation as well, and the sort of more integral a context you have, the more certain similar meanings can start to emerge for somebody, and, we, you know, you and I both are, you know, we're integrally informed. I mean, we share a passion for that sort of integral approach. So I think, without giving any of the things away, there's certain, certain areas of this, you know, overall production that you and I certainly see eye to eye on.
Larry: Yeah, and you know, I..., the third movie, is, it has its revelation moments, but they're all based on things that have been built up through all three movies...
Ken: Certainly.
Larry: The beginnings, the little tiny introductions to each film has kind of a reflection of what each movie is about... and, you know, we say, we sort of, in those little tiny prefaces to each film, we kind of tell the audience where we are in the journey of development...
Ken: Right.
Larry: I mean, the Matrix is an exploration of consciousness, those little tiny bits and pieces at the beginning of each of the films sort of, tries to help you map it out a little bit...
Ken: Right. That to me is what makes it, like I say, such rich literature, that there's just multiple levels of meaning and I think that the critics have missed it on that basis, when they don't stand back and see a bigger picture they are free to criticise it in any way they want for the same reason as anybody is free to interpret in anyway...
Larry: Yeah, I'm hoping that there will be some level of, that the problem will be somewhat self-evident, that, you know, in a way that you describe things as having an interior and an exterior, the way that the Matrix kinda is in a lot of ways about that, and the exterior tends to remain very obvious, very surface based, observation based. And I'm kind of hoping that these two dialogs that'll be juxtaposed will be kind of about an exterior and an interior, and the critics will be essentially interested in surfaces, and philosophers will be interested in interiors
(...)
Larry: That was the... in the beginning of the third movie when there's like... we're like: "How do we start the third movie?" ...which is gonna talk about the things that are so hard to talk about [Ken: Right.] it's like: Ok, you go to black and then you have to have a moment of Big Bang and that's the origin of everything, the origin of thought, the origin of consciousness, whatever it is, in that moment it's like 'from that nothing to everything' is everything... [Ken laughs]
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