»Neo is the Deus Ex Machina«

Before I type anything, I want it recognised that NONE of this is my idea. I just happen to agree with it. I have made this more worthy than a link by writing it in my own words. If you wish to see the original I have put a link at the end.

On another forum they noticed the following:

A Deus Ex Machina was orginally found in Greek plays. It would be lowered onto the stage and resolve all the problems. The interesting thing about the matrix revolutions is that the Deus Ex Machina does none of this.

To start with, rather than lowering itself to Neo's level, the Deus Ex Machina RISES to Neo's level. Secondly it is not the Deus Ex Machina which solves the problem, it is Neo. Neo is then attached to various plugs and 'lowered' into the matrix to solve the problem.

"You cannot stop him, ... but I can"

The Deus Ex Machina which you would expect to resolve the problems proves incapable and a human, Neo, ends up replacing it as the real Deus Ex Machina. Thus God is replaced with human autonomy. Cool eh?

When I read the title of this thread I was confused.

When I read the name of the author I was even more shocked.

But this is very interesting and is logical.

Thanks for this info. I'm gonna read the link.

Brilliant.

That made sense to me.

Anyway, do you know this guy max314? I think we should recruit him for Matrix-Explained! He has posted quite a few good ideas there. I am sure he will be well appreciated here.

I have to agree with Akshat Gupta, the theory is brilliant. It now makes sence to me as well.

Oh yeah that was a nice demonstration, so logic, so stick-to-the-facts.

I think its a rather loose link. We don’t see anything in the film's style that would make it comparable to ancient Greek plays. You can draw inter-textual links from anything to ‘The Matrix’ trilogy and find a lot of evidence even though it is not valid.
For example:

Bill & Ted’s excellent adventure - The Matrix

Both star Keano Reeves.
In both films people travel through pay phones.
Both films have a scene where Keano Reeves avoids federal agents in an office environment.
Both are in the Sci-Fi genre subcategory

I have just stated more links here between the two films than there are between Greek plays and ‘The Matrix’

Also, 'Ex' sends 'Neo' to his certain death. 'Ex' simply cleans up the body of 'Neo' after and leaves.
I think its obvious who the power lies with in that scene.

Yes well of course the power lies in DEM. He is the Source.

But I think the whole thing might be a bit of a symbolic hint as to showing the power of the One as well. That he is the bringer of peace.

The Deus Ex Machina comes from Greek plays. That's where the Deux Ex Machina comes from. Not only that but the Deus Ex Machina in Greek plays would also be a huge head surrounded by spikes (like a sun).

There is a direct link with the Deus Ex Machina found in Greek plays in the same way that the black cat has a direct link with cats.

Then I could say that Deus Ex rising was a symbol of the sun you're talking about. The problem with that kind of reasoning, it's that it can be turned into anything.

For example, Deus Ex is rising and after the superbrawl, we see a sunrise. Symbolism again ? chance ?

Matrix's story has been built like a religion, you can interpret many things in many ways because they're incomplete, but the wise decision would be to stick to the fact as much as possible.

The Deus Ex Machina is called the Deus Ex Machina in the credits. A Deus Ex Machina is an item used in greek plays and the one in the matrix even looks the same. There is no problem with calling a spade a spade surely?

As for the idea of saying it looks like the sun, there might be (albeit less tenable) links to that too. Emporer Constantine who made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire in Byzantium worshipped both Christ and Appollo the sun God. In Nietzsche's philosophy he criticises the way that modern Christianity has too many elements of Apollo and not enough of Dionysus (see Nietzsche's "Birth Of Tragedy" for more info on that).

When I read the title of the thread, even before reading all the posts, I envisioned Neo becoming the Deus Ex Machina and then proclaiming:

Quote:

It is done!

with his human voice!

He then truely becomes the Son of the "Machine god"!

Crazy thoughts!

/z

I think I read somewhere in this forum that Jesus's last words were- `It is done', or `It is finished' or something like that.

'It is finished' and 'it is done' pretty much mean the same thing. It meant that the prophesies in the OT had been fulfilled.

Interesting that the Deus says this when we had been told by the architect that the prophecies were a lie...

Wasn't it Neo **interpretating** what the Architect said?

I guess we have to make up our own damn mind!

/z

Fatpie42 wrote:

'It is finished' and 'it is done' pretty much mean the same thing. It meant that the prophesies in the OT had been fulfilled.

"it's finished" is a translation of the original text, so maybe that the proper translation could have been "it is done".

If Deus ex is the source (or a gateway leading to it) then Neo returning to the Source could be explained by Neo going into Deus Ex. Yeah, that would be interesting... but still I don't think that Neo is has become Deus ex, I'd rather say that he has become a part of him like any program going to the source.

Apocryphe, don't take this the wrong way but there are some definite misunderstandings in your post.

1) Just a quick note in response to your first paragraph. "It is done" and "It is finished" mean exactly the same thing in the context. Neither could be described as a more 'proper' translation because they have identical meanings in the context. (My post was intended to point this out to AG, because he seemed uncertain whether 'it is finished' or 'it is done' were Jesus' last words)

I think we are both in agreement that this does not matter.

2) This is the real point where I think you misunderstood me. I don't mean that Neo is the Deus Ex Machina (the character in the matrix). What I mean is that Neo is A Deus Ex Machina (ie. the object from which the character in the matrix gets its name) while the Deus Ex Machina (the character in the matrix) entirely fails to be a Deus Ex Machina (the object upon which its name is based).

Here's how it works...

The Deus Ex Machina is given its name in the movie because of an object used in Greek plays which was lowered by ropes onto the stage. (From now on 'Deus' is the character in the matrix and 'DEM' is the object from greek plays).

Towards the end of a play the DEM would be lowered onto the stage and would solve all the problems. However, in M3 Deus does not act as a DEM at all. Deus does not solve anything. He can't. Only Neo is capable of solving the problems. Neo is the DEM, but he is not Deus and neither does he become Deus.

Does this make sense? Neo is not the character Deus Ex Machina (Deus), nor does he become that character, but he is a theatrical object known as a Deus Ex Machina (DEM).

Well, the tile of the topic is "Neo is the Deus Ex Machina", but anyway my last post was rather like "what if Neo was really Deus ex, litterally".

But I still disagree... Neo lost, Smith was going to win and who saved the party at the last second ? Deus ex ! So he does look like a deus ex machina for me.

Um... if Deus Ex could solve everything then how come he didn't just do it himself? He needed Neo to do it.

In a way they are both Deus Ex Machinas.

Deus Ex was the only person who could stop the attack on Zion and Neo was the only person who could stop the Smith virus.

However, while Deus Ex organised the attack on Zion Himself, Neo was not actively involved in Smith's virus. Certainly if it weren't for Neo the Smith virus would not be there, but essentially it was Smith's choice to do what he was doing - not Neo's.

Neo stopped Smith - Deus Ex couldn't.

I think the name "Deus ex Machina" is simply a pun on the term "God from Machine", meaning that from the machines came a God. I don't think it refers to Deus ex Machina being a device that is supposed to resolve the plot.

And although true, Neo does resolve the plot, I don't think you can call him a deus ex machina, because he's the central character, and the deus ex machina is a side device which isn't integrated into the plot until it comes just out of the blue.

I agree though that it is a nice irony that The Deus ex Machina couldn't resolve the plot but Neo could.

bachsoffice wrote:

I think the name "Deus ex Machina" is simply a pun on the term "God from Machine", meaning that from the machines came a God.

You should know by now that there is nothing simple about the matrix movies.

bachsoffice wrote:

I agree though that it is a nice irony that The Deus ex Machina couldn't resolve the plot but Neo could.

I thought it was quite clever, yeah. That's basically the main point.

Now it all makes sense to me!

Ok, let's assume that Deus Ex was not there... did you feel like Neo was going to win ? Neo was just a bait, so he alone didn't solve anything.
Without Deus Ex, Neo would be now leading an army of Smith into the machine city and proudly wearing Smith's costume.

Nah, Deux Ex solved the problem at the end, I don't know how u can see any other conclusion.

Fatpie42 wrote:

The Deus Ex Machina is called the Deus Ex Machina in the credits. A Deus Ex Machina is an item used in greek plays and the one in the matrix even looks the same. There is no problem with calling a spade a spade surely?

fp makes an excellent point. the bros. could have named the deus anything they wanted to. the fact that they chose that exact phrase is clearly an allusion to greek theatre. what more of a connection does one need?

d

Apocryphe wrote:

Ok, let's assume that Deus Ex was not there... did you feel like Neo was going to win ? Neo was just a bait, so he alone didn't solve anything. Without Deus Ex, Neo would be now leading an army of Smith into the machine city and proudly wearing Smith's costume.

might it not be more reasonable to assume that without the deus, neo would never have chosen to give himself to smith, and that instead of neo leading an army of smiths into 01, the final fight between neo and smith would still be going on, and would never end? the fight ended not because smith overpowered neo, but because neo chose to stop fighting. yes, neo acknowledges the fact that he could never defeat smith, but that's not the same as saying that neo could have been defeated without his consent. in short, winning and losing are not the only two possible outcomes of the smith / neo fight. there is the possibility of eternal stalemate, and that is why neo is just as important as the deus in this context.

d

Fatpie42 wrote:

In a way they are both Deus Ex Machinas

I think it is a interesting analogy Fatpie42. I especially like the concept... ‘Thus God is replaced with human autonomy’ – like Jesus was ‘lowered to earth’ to solve the equation of sin for God.

I had always thought that Neo was the ONE that solved the equation, thus forming the accepted transaction (Peace) that was empowered by Deus Ex Machina cancelling out Smith, forming a new day/birth (Sati).

Neo’s path was to end where it had begun, at the Source. He was the resolution of the anomalous code, perceived and assimilated by the Source.

But I think the weight of ‘Deus Ex Machina’ falls more heavily on the ‘Machine God’ as both treaty and power to enact the treaty is facilitated and enabled there. It is there Neo negotiates peace. It is there Neo is connected. It is there his solution is accepted/empowered.


Deus Ex Machina: (Dictionary.com)

1. In Greek and Roman drama, a god lowered by stage machinery to resolve a plot or extricate the protagonist from a difficult situation.

Extricate the protagonist = rescue the central character

2. An unexpected, artificial, or improbable character, device, or event introduced suddenly in a work of fiction or drama to resolve a situation or untangle a plot.

Neo had gone toward the Source (the Machine city), not knowing what would happen... 'I know I'm supposed to go. But beyond that - I don't know...'

3. A person or event that provides a sudden and unexpected solution to a difficulty.

Think of the difficulty Neo would of had if no ‘Deus Ex Machina’ had been ‘presented’ at this final 'Stage'?


While Neo is responsable for solving the equasion, Deus Ex Machina is resposable for facilitating it.