»Non-Matrix Code«

As we all know, the matrix code appears in waves of columns made of machine made letters (they dont appear in any language, but you can see at least 2 of them in Sci-Fi movies when you read Alien characters)

But what about Non-Matrix codes? like, the code of a training program or Mobil Ave? is there even code? The training programms have been made to simulate the matrix and Mobil Ave suppose to have a similarity. does this means they have a code too? if so, what would it look like?
I presume that Neo can't see the code of Mobil Ave couse he has no powers there, so he is in training programm.
So what do you think?

Hmm....very good question.

No idea though.

Im not sure if they show the green Matrix code in M1 while Neo is fighting Morpheus in the training program.

they dont. in the one monitor shot you DO see, its kinda live action. cause i guess they can decode their own simulations slightly.

Right.

The image translators work for the construct program. But there's way too much information to decode the Matrix.

i knew tank said something but i couldnt remember the line and to not make an arse of myself, i said nothing... hehehe...

... is the "code" we may see in "Neo vision" on the decoding of the machines realm...

Somehow machines and humans seem to have different "essence" like codes... different "souls"...

When Neo is at Mobil Ave, his mind is allready very enlightened.
He has no powers there, but yet he knows that it is all 'fake'.

His mind is allready used to thinking that it is all computer-code.
So I think he can see Mobile Ave in computer-code.

Utilizing his powers is something else. Within the Matrix he is the anomaly-variable; thanks to this he can bend all the rules in that particular program.

Mobil Ave station is a different program than the Matrix. It runs seperate from it. Neo's variable cannot break the rules within this program, because the rules are different and determined by the Trainman.

Also, wouldn't Neo freak out if he realised that he wasn't able to switch to code-vision anymore? He also guesses quite sure that Rama and his family are programs.

I think Rama and his family are all in gold-code.
The Trainman is in gold-code too I think. Mobil Ave station is a program written by the Trainman ("I build this place") and because of that I think it is green-coded.

I agree with all what Mobil_Ave_Neo said

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When Neo is at Mobil Ave, his mind is allready very enlightened. He has no powers there, but yet he knows that it is all 'fake'.

How do you know he has no powers there? Sure he is knocked over, but he wasnt expecting it and had his hands full. Smith knocks neo much harder when we know Neo has his powers.

People also say that he does not have his powers in the architects room, this is untrue in my opinion.
Neo's power cannot be taken away by being in different constructs. In fact he is still in the same place as ever, it is just his mind accepting different signals. He still knows it is fake and can bend and break the rules with his mind, the program cannot stop neo from knowing "there is no spoon".
Neo simply finds no reason to use his powers in these two areas.

Neo's mind isnt the only reason he bends the rules of the Matrix. Dont forget that he can bend the Matrix more than anyone else because he is the integral anomaly; because he carries the code of the One. This is what makes him bend code in the Matrix only.

For more, please read:

The one code isnt a literal code. It is the almost unique way his mind works, there is no code in his brain that makes him an anomaly. The reason it is called a code is because codes are the only ways in which computers can understand things. I dont see any proof that he cannot use his powers anywhere else than the matrix.
Neo uses his powers in the 'nebs' construct when fighting morpheus in the 'I know kung-fu' scene, he punches as fast as the agents move (we see the motion blur effect that the agents use). This is not in the matrix therefore his powers exist in any construct system he is connected to.
As for the link what is said there is only a theory, it cannot be proved. Im not trying to tell you that what you think is wrong, im just stating what I beleive.
Hope im not being rude here, but it seems you are refuring to the thread as if it was written in stone. Wheras I value it just the same as my own theory.
I also think that 'One'ness is something everyone can achieve, but neo just has a far greater innate power than usual. This would link in with the buddhist faith, they beleive that all life forms have buddha nature and that even a dog could become a buddha.

I've got a headache at the moment so this proberly sounds harsher than I mean it to be. Thankyou for linking me to the thread anyway

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Hope im not being rude here, but it seems you are refuring to the thread as if it was written in stone.

Sorry, it wasn't my intention to sound as if I thought that. You are right it is not 100% proven and still a theory (but then so is Relativity). Maybe I was reffering to that thread of mine alot because I was a bit surprised it hadn't sparked much discussion in an entire week. (Which reminds me I have to respond to it).

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Ive got a headache at the moment so this proberly sounds harsher than I mean it to be.

Dont worry about it. I understand. But thank you for mentioning it though. Otherwise people get the wrong impression. It avoids misunderstandings.

As far as the theory itself- of course its not stated explicitly in the movies itself. But come on, in the Matrix, what is? All the interesting pieces of the puzzles we have put together are based on logic and understanding of the system and clues in the movies. My theories are also based on the same thing. Logic.

If you agree with these 2 things, then you automatically agree with my theory-

1. There are other programs besides the Matrix governed by the Source. Such as Architect's chamber. They have their own equations separate from the Matrix equation. (Logic)
2. Neo is the One because of the code he carries which affects only the Matrix because of the anomaly within the Matrix.

The 2nd is the part which we are having trouble on. Who said Neo is the One and can do all these great things just because he believes very badly? No, Neo is defeinitely the One because he carries the code of the One. This is what allows him to manipulate the Matrix.

Architect- `....dissemination of the code you carry,....'

He is the sum of the remainder of the unbalanced equation of the Matrix ONLY. Not the other equations of the other programs.

Gotta go. Sorry. Just think about it when you have the time.

If Neo carries a literal code, then why cant the architect simply create the code again and insert it into a human that will do exactly as he/she is told?
In my opinion it is olny refured to as a code because that is all machines undersatand, they dont see light and dark, they see 1 and 0.
The way Neo's brain works is what sets him aside from the others as the 'one'. Remember this tale is about how how we can overcome our materialistic fake world by using our minds, not because one of us was born with an arangement of numbers in his head!

Dear Yaldaboath,

your question are very accurate and in the beginning I was just thinking like you. But now I have seen the light and learnt that sometimes the light may blind you instead of enlightening you

In another forum, we used to use an example that explain very well how the anomaly works:

imagine that you build a tower with little sticks (without any glue). The higher you build, the more the chance of seeing the tower collapse will arise.

At a certain moment, the tower will collapse. The last stick is like the One : he was like any other stick, but he made it fall the complete tower. Now, the power of destroying everything comes from the last stick or from all the little asymetry built by all the other sticks wich have unbalanced the tower ? See what I mean ? The power of the one is only the last result of mistakes accumulated on a long run of the Matrix.

The One is someone who has powers not because he's different (all the sticks are identical) but because of his situation in the tower/matrix (the place and the moment when he was added, the way he was added etc., in short it is his "life" that made a special stick).

I don't know if I was clear about that ?

You are quite clear my friend.
But your analogy is flawed. The matrix is far more complex than a tower of sticks. Furthermore the sticks cannot make decisions, think or take action.
To make the analogy more accurate, I will give the sticks consciousness.
Lets say that all the sticks accept the 'program' of the stick tower. This program states that one should stay rigid and still.
However one day one of the sticks at the bottom rejects this program, because the way his mind works is different to the others. The 'One Stick' decides he wants to free all the other sticks by destroying the tower.
He moves and destroys the tower, freeing the sticks but is broken in the process.
This shows 'Neo's journey has nothing to do with the input of the builder, the stick didn't need a code written on him to free the tower of sticks.

Sorry for the late reply, I've been quite busy

I think that Neo cannot comprehend the other codes bcuz he is jus not used 2 them, it will take sum time, and he isnt in there for very long so the powers are not displayed

That is a good point and sound very resonable.
My only problem with that is that he could use his powers in the main matrix before he could even see the code. Atleast, he could use his 'One' powers seconds after seeing the code for the first time.
Other than that, nice

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My only problem with that is that he could use his powers in the main matrix before he could even see the code. Atleast, he could use his 'One' powers seconds after seeing the code for the first time.

I think i can fill that hole. He cud feel/understand the code before he cud see it, so he had powers, but when he is actually able to see the code(he comprehends it better, thus manipulates in better) his powers grow stronger. I think this wud hav happened over time in the other place but he was there 2 short.

Yaldaboath wrote:

You are quite clear my friend. But your analogy is flawed. The matrix is far more complex than a tower of sticks. Furthermore the sticks cannot make decisions, think or take action.

Well, an analogy has always its limits with the reality, the purpose is to use an analogy in order to explain a complex idea easely.
However, the sticks cannot make decision but it is the same for Neo and anyone. Choice is an illusion, there is no free will. A human being is more complicated that a stick of course, but it does not mean that he's free because his mind is still submited to rules, even if these rules are very complicated for us, they're not for a superior being like God for example.

Yaldaboath wrote:

To make the analogy more accurate, I will give the sticks consciousness. Lets say that all the sticks accept the 'program' of the stick tower. This program states that one should stay rigid and still. However one day one of the sticks at the bottom rejects this program, because the way his mind works is different to the others. The 'One Stick' decides he wants to free all the other sticks by destroying the tower.

Yes, but even he decides to destroy the tower, the stick won't be able to do it. He's stuck in the tower and does not have any power in it, just like most of people in the Matrix. However, all these sticks together have created a flaw in the tower and the last stick will destroy everything with the help of all the other sticks. That last stick had a destiny : call it chance, hazard or whatever, but the fact is that the stick was choosen by the system to become the One.
Neo was choosen because he was at the right place, had the right personality etc., to become the One but he didn't really choose to have the power, the power has been given to him by the anomaly of the system.

Yaldaboath wrote:

This shows 'Neo's journey has nothing to do with the input of the builder, the stick didn't need a code written on him to free the tower of sticks.

But the code is Neo's life ! Remember, the Architecte said "the SUM OF YOUR LIFE is a remainder etc."
What's the life of the stick ? Being put in the tower in the right place and the right moment. All the rest is cause and effect.
What's the life of Neo ? being put in the matrix in the right place and right moment. All the rest is cause and effect. Merv explained it very well "you came here because you were told to and you obeyed".

Yaldaboath wrote:

Sorry for the late reply, I've been quite busy

No problemo, I enjoyed reading your analyse so it was worth the waiting

Apoc said:

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However, the sticks cannot make decision but it is the same for Neo and anyone. Choice is an illusion, there is no free will.

Is choice an illusion?

I see this as one of the **big** questions in the film. Neo exclaims:

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Choice. The problem is choice.

And if it is, "I see no reason why" I should believe in Merv, "no reason at all!" Merv carries part of the truth, but not the whole truth, since one needs the Eyes of the Oracle to encompass the whole truth, if you know what I mean...

The meaning of choice is pivotal:

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Smith/Oracle: Why, Mr. Anderson, why? Why, why do you do it? Why, why get up? Why keep fighting? Do you believe you're fighting for something, for more than your survival? Can you tell me what it is, do you even know? Is it freedom or truth, perhaps peace - could it be for love? Illusions, Mr. Anderson, vagaries of perception. Temporary constructs of a feeble human intellect trying desperately to justify an existence that is without meaning or purpose. And all of them as artificial as the Matrix itself. Although, only a human mind could invent something as insipid as love. You must be able to see it, Mr. Anderson, you must know it by now! You can't win, it's pointless to keep fighting! Why, Mr. Anderson, why, why do you persist? Neo: Because I choose to.

Choice that transcends reason, transcends ego, that even means daring to accept the risk of being manipulated for some unknown cause. He finally understood this choice. He did it, and won! Or rather, Choice won!


/z

p.s. It's not simple, since there is a (hidden) contradiction between choice and purpose. True choice = no purpose. True purpose = no choice. The only reconciliation between the two is beyond ourselves:

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Neo: But why help us ? The Oracle: We're all here to do what we're all here to do. I'm interested in one thing, Neo, the future. And believe me, I know - the only way to get there is together.

*Choice* is Deep Stuff, believe me!

I bit more on topic:

I've always seen Neo as the Hacker above all others. Even if he was born/defined/whatever in the confines of the matrix and its equations, the Anamoly is still a bit of a trouble-maker, something still human, something still not totally totally confined within the controlled boundaries of the Matrix. Don't get me wrong: I agree in principle about the One as the Anamoly Code, but I have a feeling that there is more to it. Neo is not only the Hacker who hacks his way out of the Matrix plug-wise. I believe he also finds a way to hack his way out of the Matrix universe purpose-wise too.

This is were the red-candy-pill comes into the picture IMHO, and the Oracle follows in his path by taking the red candy herself too! The only way to the future is together (see quote in above post).

What I'm trying to say is that the Anomaly could theoretically be *defined* by the Matrix/Architect, but it may not be *confined* by it, because Neo is still human and carries the same code(?) in the real world! ... and all the way into the Machine world too!

Neo, Hackers of all Hackers!


/z

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Yes, but even he decides to destroy the tower, the stick won't be able to do it. He's stuck in the tower and does not have any power in it, just like most of people in the Matrix.

.

The 'one stick' rejects the "stick matrix" and gains the power to move, destroying the tower. Neo rejects the matrix and destroys the balance by moving out of the rules.

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That last stick had a destiny : call it chance, hazard or whatever, but the fact is that the stick was choosen by the system to become the One.

That last stick does have the power to destroy the tower, but no more than any of the other sticks do. They could all become the 'one stick' if they learn how to reject the stick system, this rebellion gives them the power akin to the matrix warrior.

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But the code is Neo's life ! Remember, the Architecte said "the SUM OF YOUR LIFE is a remainder etc."

The architect speaks in terms of mathematical equations because he cannot understand incomputable data, such as how someone feels, or real love.
The sum of neo's life is how he lived it, not a literal number or code. If it was an actual code the architect could simply imprint it onto a maluable human brain and use 'The One' for his own will.

This thread is very interesting

Indeed it is intresting

But I still stay on my position

Indeed, the tower does not fall because the stick wanted it, but because there was already flaws in it. The stick was just given the power to do it. In fact, the "One" stick is as much a slave as the other sticks.
Other's sticks destiny is to build the tower while the "One" is to destroy it.

In real life, you don't choose anything : your genetic code, your birth, the place where you were bornn your parents, your history, your education, nothing !
So, where is the free will ? If you like an apple but hate, for example, Brussels sprouts, can you say that you decide to love/hate it ? Your brain tells you that it's good and then you'll eat it. You choosed to obey to the taste of your brain, but you didn't choose what would be a good taste or not.

Finally, I see the choice as being the acceptance of your destiny, not as the proof of free will. Neo had decided to accept his destiny even without understanding it. He realized that he was another part of the universe and that he had a job to do, like anyone else. Call it karma or purpose or destiny, it's a ord

Apocryphe wrote:

Dear Yaldaboath, your question are very accurate and in the beginning I was just thinking like you. But now I have seen the light and learnt that sometimes the light may blind you instead of enlightening you In another forum, we used to use an example that explain very well how the anomaly works: imagine that you build a tower with little sticks (without any glue). The higher you build, the more the chance of seeing the tower collapse will arise. At a certain moment, the tower will collapse. The last stick is like the One : he was like any other stick, but he made it fall the complete tower. Now, the power of destroying everything comes from the last stick or from all the little asymetry built by all the other sticks wich have unbalanced the tower ? See what I mean ? The power of the one is only the last result of mistakes accumulated on a long run of the Matrix. The One is someone who has powers not because he's different (all the sticks are identical) but because of his situation in the tower/matrix (the place and the moment when he was added, the way he was added etc., in short it is his "life" that made a special stick). I don't know if I was clear about that ?

WOW! That's great!
And the rest of the thread of course..

th3 p4th wrote:

WOW! That's great! And the rest of the thread of course..

That really is an awesome model for explaining the integral anomaly, Apocryhpe.

Though, wouldn't it be more like a Jenga tower? With the sticks being removed instead of added. Minor technicallity, I know, but it comes with a visual.