»Oracle as bodhisattva«

I have been thinking about this for a long time, so I will try to make it clear. I have read in other posts that Neo was assoicated with a being in Buddhism called a bodhisattva, which is false. Neo would resemble the Buddha, for there are more than one.

First, let's clarify what a bodhisattva is. A bodhisattva is the translation of "enlightened essense" and is a person or being that has obtained nirvana and can become buddha, but chooses instead to return back to earth and help others obtain enlightenment. In Buddhism, a bodhisattva has become a more "holy" than a buddha, for he/she has performed the ultimate sacrifice of selflessness and given up peace for the peace of others.

For me, this description fits the Oracle. How does this fit into the present myths? As we can see from the other minor characters (ie. Sereph, Merovingian, Architect, Deus ex Machina, etc.) the only way to understand them is to understand the myths behind them. The bros. W. never give backstories to any of these characters because they don't need any, they have it through archetypes and so on.

What does the bodhisattva imply for the Oracle? Again, there is no hard proof, but what can be gathered from the myth.

1. We know that the Oracle is enlightened, like Neo. Look at their green codes (Neo's in Reloaded, and Oracles in Revolutions) and you will see that they glow green.

2. When Smith copies the Oracle, there is a tremendous release of power, because she is enlightened. When Smith copies Neo, not the same effect, he is not enlightened yet.

3. Neo reaches enlightenment after Smith is destroyed and he transends this world to enter the source (Nirvana). He has become a buddha, or the One. Remember that One means one, no matter how many there were before, they were not the one, they were the few. Neo become the one and only One.

4. The only way for Neo to get this far was with the help of the Oracle, who is a bodhisattva. Meaning, she has been enlightened, she has been down the same path, she has the same powers, and functions of the One, but she gave up that path, to return and help others find the way. This does not mean she was ever an anomoly or anything else, it means that she has been down the road to enlightenment, or the source, and choose not to partake and return, thus she is an exhile. She is different from other exhiles in that they were never enlightened, outside of maybe Sereph, but that has been threaded to death.

5. What other proof is there that the Oracle has been down the same path and is the same? Smith doesn't have super powers until after he copies the Oracle, becoming at par if not somewhat greater than Neo. For when the fight is done and Smith destroyed, the Oracle lies in the exact spot where super Smith was destroyed.

Where does this all lead? The Oracle has been down the same path as Neo. As all things artificial come from the source, the only way to return is through death(deletion) or enlightenment, returning to the source with a certain purpose. Neo had a purpose, and the Oracle must have had a purpose as well (that is another form of speculation).

This is all I have time to write for now. What do other think? Bunk or debunk.

Some interesting thoughts.

Obviously the Bros have put lots of archetypes in the story to get us thinking about everything. But if I understand you correctly, what your saying is, this has all happened b4, i.e. the Oracle being the ‘enlightened’ One has returned to guide it to happen again?

Little tricky to tie this into the rest of the story. She’s a program to start with, plus also she doesn’t know the end, which you would think she would, if she’s been down that path?

It is an interesting thought but needs more substantiation within the overall context of the story.

I think you hit it with the symbolic context.

Quote:

a bodhisattva has become a more "holy" than a buddha, for he/she has performed the ultimate sacrifice of selflessness and given up peace for the peace of others.

That in itself sounds good enough for me. The Oracle risked alot to get this far.

However, some of the technical stuff doesn't fit in. Thats because I disagree that the Oracle is an exile. But since we are talking about symbolism here, this seems very good to me.

Im gonna move this to the appropriate area.

True that it is hard to fit the myth 100% with the movie, but remember that bodhisattva is not always human. Buddhism encompasses all creatures of this world and others. The traditional Gautama Buddha was instructed by a bodhisattva from another world. The fact that the Oracle is a program and Neo human doesn't matter.

The path that both took to enlightenment was the same, they just took a different vehicle, therefore the outcome and method are different, but the destination is all the same. The Oracle's words about Neo having the sight, is a buddhist concept, she has the sight as well. The destination can be seen but now how to reach it. Remember that the how is insignificant, the why is important. Why does Neo save Trinity, why does he need to save her? Why does the Oracle help Neo? Why does she sacrifice herself? and so on. All these can be answered, the how, however, is a little more tricky and runs into speculation.

Perhaps the Oracle attained enlightenment through finding out how to save the machine populace, which as we know was threatened by the continual destruction of the matrix, where the humans would wake up and entire crops were lost. By doing so she served her purpose and could enter the source willingly and become At-one with the rest of the machines. She refuses knowing the status quo of the world is still not balanced. She is a bodhisattva after all and has a type of love for all creatures, including human, and stays to guide others into solving the proplem, and thus cultivate One into being the savior, or buddha of all life.

Anyway, there isn't a lot of evidence, I know, and it is only mythic speculation. But understanding the myth can help us understand the character so much more.

Perhaps the Oracle was a previous One that went through the left door. Therefore, she became an exile "program". She can guide Neo and knows what has happened to Her but since she didn't choose the Right door, she doesn't know what will happen to Neo.

No. No. Just no.

Qbosch, i'm not entirely sure i can agree with what u said about the bodhisattva. As is my understanding, Siddartha attained enlightenment and he chose not to be selfish, but to return to earth to help teach others the path to enlightenment.. but eventually he decided that his work was done and lay down and "died", passing away from his physical body and reaching nirvana.

in my opinion i don't see how you can avoid drawing parallels with Neo. when he saw through the matrix for what it was at the end of M1, he stayed to help the people on earth to see through the illusion that is the matrix.. this strongly mirrors the story of siddhartha... at the end of Revolutions, Neo realises in his moment of stillness that his time has come also.. and he chooses to pass away from him physical presence and thus attaining true enlightenment.

No, I also don't see the Oracle as a former one. I see them only as on the same level. And the fact that Neo can open up a can of whoop ass in the matrix doesn't mean anything. Remember he uses all the muscles except the one that matters most (most of the time).

Wake-up-Neo, I understand your argument, which I now agree with because Gautama was conisered a bodhisattva before he was born (he was later considered a Buddha that the chose to come to earth instead of staying in the "heavens" thus he became a bodhisattva. This is a later South-east asia amendment made to the orginal doctrine of Buddhism that came out of India, and later disappeared.

But at the end of M1, Neo had not realized his full potential. He was again using all the muscles but the one that mattered the most. He was in a spiritual state, but still locked into a physical mindset, and one does not reach true enlightenment until one puts off the physical for the spiritual ( or in buddhist terms, the everything and nothing). Thus, though Neo understood his potential at the end of M1, he never reached it until the very end of M3 where he put off all selfishness and desire to cling to life, he stopped being afraid, and he let go of love (only allowable through Trinity's death, though) and then entered Nirvana as an enlightened being.

Remember that when Gautama reached enlightenement he had forgone all desire, he had ignored the sensous dance of Mara's volumptuous daughters, and when Mara tried to scare him into clinging to life, Gautama never flinched or feared for his life, but instead called the earth to witness, which caused Mara to flee. He had then experienced the earthly satifaction of Nirvana, but not until his death would he experience it. He was enlightened though, which means he became Buddha (the enlightened one), but he called himself an arahat (a monk who has expereinced enlightenment) out of humility.

I see Neo as this as well. He is not a bodhisattva in the sense that he choose to guide the people to his own enlightenment. At the end of M1 he came back to life only out of love for trinity and his own desire to cling to life. He didn't say "fuck it" like the Oracle did and accepted life or death for her decision.

Neo is as the Gautama Buddha was during his mortal life only. (I speak of all these as subtextual symbols and not as actual fact). Both were born unaware of their potential, both find their potential, Buddha reaches his potential long before his death, Neo reaches his potential minutes before his death. Both enter "Nirvana." The same can be said for the Oracle but instead of entering Nirvana she stays behind to help others down the path and when she is done, she too will enter Nirvana.

Again, what we both say boils down to semantics. Whether Neo is a bodishattva or not really doesn't change what the Oracle can be viewed as. Either way she can still be viewed as bodhisattva that opens up a little insight into her character.

Hey, guys, this is all theory, and who's to say one is definetly wrong. It's not like the Wachowskis are in this forum posting stuff. It's all theory, and as far as we know, this whole bodhisattva thing sounds good, but could be way off (although, the Wachowskis do say there is a lot of buddhism in the meaning of the Matrix movies). Anyway, what i'm saying is, don't just say "No, you're wrong" cause we really don't know for sure. Unless of course, it's something like "Neo was actually President Bush and Smith stood for Will Smith from Independence Day". You guys get me?

Its not theory right now. Right now we are talking interpretive. Its not right or wrong. It just means different things to different people.

I was saying no to the theory that you were making. That the Oracle was a previous One or something. That is definitely wrong. Its not a matter of opinion.

I am Andy Wachowski, by the way.

ok... u got me there, but i'm not believing u are Andy.

That's right because I'm Andy.

no, the reason i didn't believe him is because I'm andy. trust me, none of u have any idea what u are talking about, u couldn't be more off. or... something...

QBosch, i understand that Neo didn't achieve true enlightenment at the end of M1.. but of course, the whole buddhist take on Neo's path is purely one way of viewing it in order to understand the course of events better. the fact that Neo's life does not mirror Siddartha's exactly is not important.. but by looking at Siddartha we can understand a lot more about the nature of Neo from THIS aspect.. but yes like u said that doesn't change how we view the oracle's character

Mentalz..i know that all these posts are interpretations or theories.. but honestly, i fail to see how anyone can look at the story of Siddartha and not see the obvious influence the story has had on the Wachowskis writing of the Matrix.. ESPECIALLY M1... yes there are other ways of looking at it.. but that's entirely the point... i think i'm repeating myself rather heavily by saying that i strongly believe that the Matrix Trilogy is a reconciliation of religion, philosophy, mathematics and science. yes we can look at the buddhist aspect and draw a great number of parralels because buddhist philosophy is one way in which we can perceive reality. but equally, we could just as easily ignore that and choose to look at it from the technological POV.. look at it from the perspective of computers, hacking and mathematical equations... or whatever but this is exactly the purpose of these movies.. it's all about the nature of true reality.. and the different ways in which the human intellect attempts to perceive it.

hi: all you people in this forum mistakes some Buddhadharma ideas in this movie ,with more deep Dharma concepts, commonly not disponible at initial levels.
it doesnt matter if you are lay or monk,theravadhin ,mahayana,vajrayana or other ,the truth about the bodhisattva way its ,first of all, goes beyond the words.why i say this?
because none of you have emphazised the difference between awakening and enlightement.
so this simple item put on evidence the "running in circles"that happens when Buudhadharma its used only to support own ideas and wordly acts...
ho ho ho
warm regards
maxi