»Goliath«

Possible spoiler.
The narritive of the matrix comic 'Goliath' shows how a human has been trained by the machines train a human to pilot a space ship and battle an alien force, attacking earth. Whether this is real or just another simulated experience is unclear, but it spawned an enigma for me. In the matrix has man extended its reach to other life forms?
I believe it more likely that the machines have, as they are vastly more efficient and productive, they may have achieved ‘first contact’ before the electrical storm engulfed the earth. This could be unknown to humans which would explain why we see nothing of it in the Zion mainframe in the Animatrix. Perhaps the brothers have just not thought of it yet? What are your thoughts? Thankyou.

Doesn't the story explain enough for ya? I think it's fairly self-explanotory. The machines get attacked and there best chances of survival are to send a human in a ship above the Electro Magnetic storm to attack the bastard aliens.

Yes I understand that, but it tells the stroy from the point of view of the man, he does not know if the flight was another simulation. And if the alien is attacking, why? I was asking for peoples ideas about this, not what tne plot of the stroy is.

Indeed the story is not very clear on several points. But notice that the machines cannot go through the magnetic clouds in Revolutions (when they try to follow the Logos).
That's why they had to send a human. But the story is more important because it explain that machines can copy human memories into "backups" (clones?) that they can make you believe that one year passed while it has been only 1 minutes etc.

All this accredit my idea that machines are using us as cheap memory (the character of the story say that too) since they can apparently reprogram our brain at wish.
I hope this helped ....

Interesting theory, but if the humans are being used as memory, wouldnt they have their minds wiped Like when smith takes Bane's body?
Or are you saying it could be using spare brain spaces, like the percentage we dont use? I dont think the humans could be concidered 'cheap' memory though, think of all the processing power and resorces needed to keep the matrix running for the humans.
I found the element of alien beings attacking earth quite interesting, (imagine a cheesy spin off comic where Smith fights the aliens).
I find a flaw in the sending of the human though because the space ship would still short out from the electricle cloud, just as the Logos does. If the system can be restarted again after passing though the cloud, surely they could make an auto restart feature using bio machinery, the spiders that moniter the featuses look more fleshy than metalic.
I think the space battle was simulated as an experement to test the back up copies and the time lengthening process among other things.
Thanks for your input, what do you think of my ideas?

hmm plot hole me thinks -> the logos shorted out when it went through the electrical storm too - hence the falling rapidly back down to earth. How the hell could they get a space ship into space?
This comic also raises issues about time, and although people have tried to explain this to me before, i still don't like it.

It suggets that matrix time runs faster than real world time. Surely this wouldnt work, because the operators on the ships couldnt help the people at all, because everything would be happening way too fast. If the people died, they would die very, very quickly on the chairs, something that DIDNT happen in the movies. Could this be 'proof' of Matrix Within a Matrix? I don't know... also, the rebels couldnt talk to the operators, because the operators would hear very very fast talking that they couldnt understand and the people would hear the operator talking stupidly slowly.

Maybe machines can only control the processing speed (time) when no hacking from outside is taking place. meaning when rebels are not in the Matrix.

Quote:

the logos shorted out when it went through the electrical storm too - hence the falling rapidly back down to earth. How the hell could they get a space ship into space?

Trinity manages to restart the power, maybe if the ship has enough upwards force it could carry on going up untill the power was regenerated.
Also the logos is a hover ship not a space ship.
But the quote i took from you does back up my idea that the space fight was another simulation.
The time issue is a difficult one. Maybe the machines only alter time perception occationally, to single people. I think the protagonist in the golliath comic was in a single person matrix, with all other 'people' he met being programs. That would explain why he could re-live his life and meet the same people again. It would also explain how they could keep up the inconsistancy in the speed of time.

A.G. Thats a good idea,(sorry I dont mean that to sound patronising) that would mean that the machines had ways to detect when the free minds jack back in and where they are. If that was true Cypher wouldnt have had to leave the phone in the the bin to help the agents track the rebels.

This raises the question, when neo is in bullet time, does he slow time? in his local area? the whole matrix? or is it just a representation of his incredible awareness and speed?
If he slows 'time' it could help explain the time rate changes in golliath.
thanks alot for your posts


P.S. It has been a long time since I read the comic, so please correct me if im wrong on anything

Yaldaboath wrote:

wouldnt they have their minds wiped Like when smith takes Bane's body? Or are you saying it could be using spare brain spaces, like the percentage we dont use?

Indeed, according to me, a part of our brain can be used as a processor (maybe when people sleep during the night in the matrix) except for those who refuse the program.
Apparently, for that to work, they need to have our brain living a normal life.
No, they don't need to wipe minds like Smith, or else it means that there already is a program in their head and thus, the mind is not avalaible for calculation anymore.
I think that if someone is brainwashed by a programn he won't live very long.

Yaldaboath wrote:

I found the element of alien beings attacking earth quite interesting, (imagine a cheesy spin off comic where Smith fights the aliens).

Actually, I think that they lied to the pilot to better use him. It is probable that the organic vessel is not alien but built by the humans who lived on other planets. Here is why I think that :

1) second renaissance happened around 2080, at that period, man probably colonized mars and the moon.
2) when humans from mars or the moon realized that machines were not reliable, they gave up the "iron" technology for genetics.... hence the organic vessel that you saw.
3) Scratching the sky was a stupid idea, except if they intended to make of earth a prison while they would fly away to mars.

That's why machines never managed to find a new energy above the clouds, because humans are in space to prevent them from going out. Right now, machines are slowly dying, and because of the lack of energy, they decided to use human brains as hardware because a brain require less energy than electronics.

Yaldaboath wrote:

Thanks for your input, what do you think of my ideas?

I thougth about that, but note that when an EMp take out sentinels, they never wake up. MAgnetic waves probably destroy fragile electronics but just partially hurt heavy and simple mechanics. Note that the man cannot go back to earth, the only functionning part is a simple radio link and the missile launcher.

MantaRay wrote:

How the hell could they get a space ship into space?

In fact, that makes sense. Rockets go into space because of their great velocity that they gained on earth (you need at least 32.000km/h). In space, without atmosphere, reactors can't work anymore because they need to lean heavely on air in order to fly.

So, all they need is to throw the shuttle at 32.000km/h and it will go in space without any reactors. Nasa planned to use a giant catapult (long of several miles) to throw sattelites into space without rockets.

For the timing problem : in fact, if they can program our brain at wish, they can make you believe whatever you want, so the elapsed time was not real, don' forget that the story is told from the human point of view. Wich means that the guy does not really know how much time passed.

A good example : if Cypher had succedeed, he would feel like he spent an entire life in the matrix without noticing all the time he spent in the reality.

MantaRay wrote:

hmm plot hole me thinks -> the logos shorted out when it went through the electrical storm too - hence the falling rapidly back down to earth. How the hell could they get a space ship into space?

And if the machines could make a spaceship that is able to go beyond the electrical storm, then shouldn't they be able to use that technology for themselves and rebuild the machines?

I don't think that they'd use a human. I don't know if they're cruel enough to sacrifice their own kind, but you DO think that it would be able to survive, and then rocket back to earth. Wouldn't they have figured that out? I mean, if they're so smart, and if there is supposidely other life out there, then I would think that they would have prepared for it. We don't know if there is other life, but then again, we're stupid. The machines AREN'T. Wouldn't they have figured out about the "aliens" long ago? Or is it the whole sky thing that's preventing them from going up there? But then wouldn't the spaceship shut down too? And then how would they know about the attacks, or the eminent threat of an attack?
I'm so CONFUSED, but I hope YOU understand what I'm saying! (O_o)

Splintey

*SIGH*
Sometimes I wonder why I explain things, people seem to never read them.

Splinterinyourmind and Maxius, read just my posts above, everything is explained.

Will do, but which one?

both of them, they're linked .

Okay.

*soooo confused* I kind of get what you're saying, but I still think that with the cloud overhead, the machines would not be able to use a spaceship, and that these "aliens" seem pretty phony...is there any proof that the W. Brothers wrote these storyboards?

The fact that Neo and Trin succeeded into going above the clouds and relaunching (too late) the Logos proves that the machines can send a spaceship... and apparently it works only with humans.

On the official site, they say that Goliath is based on concepts by Larry and Andy W.

Yes, but remember, they narrowly escaped lightning. *rolls eyes* So cheesy.
So then, what's the point of having the cloud at all? It doesn't take a genius to say, "Well, golly, let's just go ABOVE the cloud." Then they wouldn't need humans at all.
I think it was because the cloud was really STORMY all the time, so it was hard to get up to the sun because of the dry lightning (which is dangerous).
Splintey

As i explained above, it seems that no electronic chip can survive the magnetic clouds. Wich means that machines need human beings to go above the clouds, looks like the clouds are acting like a huge EMP.
Trinity could reactivate the logos because it's not sensible electronic, we see in the movie that sentinels can't survive an emp while the ships can.

With the electrical storm, systems shut down for the amount of time passing through the storm. The systems only needed to be restarted afterwards. If a machine were to travel through the cloud, it would shut down, and nothing would be able to restart it because all thinking and acting done on a machine is electronic. They need something organic to restart the systems. How did the machines see the aliens through the storm? There is no reason that the machines had to use visible light frequencies to look at the sky, they could easily use ultra violet or micro waves.

This thread belongs better in the Theories Forum.

*moves topic*