»The "Race Card" is legitimate in this and many oth«

All of this is a direct result of colonialism.

And another good point:

Comet wrote:

Think of Tibet also, or the Tibetian Autonomous Region of China as it's now known. I have absolutely nothing against the Chinese; however, I don't think the government should have moved into Tibet like they did.

Exactly. Even the Japanese oppressed the Chinese during the 1800's. That's the point.

the anomaly wrote:

huge barriers like...not bothering to learn the language of the country you are "fleeing" to

I don't necessarily thing people purposely try to not learn the language. But you have to put things in perspective. If you move to another country who has a different national language than your own, and you are of adult age, it's a lot more difficult than learning a language when you're a kid (when it's easiest to learn different languages.) And if you have to work and take care of your family you aren't alloted enough time to say, take a course to learn another language; you may not even have to money to do so. Regardless, it's a barrier, and a big one.
I also don't think that, in the U.S.A., you don't need to know english to get by. Look at China town - blocks and blocks of many immigrant Chinese who have their own businesses and homes, and many who strictly speak Chinese.
Even in Miami, Florida, you have street signs in Spanish only, because of the huge Cuban population.
I don't suggest not learning the language, I'm just saying that many people have progressed without fully knowing it.

Has any one read "The 48 Laws of Power" by Robert Greene? its a good book.

This is way off topic, i should start another thread, but has "The Matrix" made you question EVERYTHING in society? From laws to human nature itself.

You saw how the machines used our own natural instinct of hope against us by using the anomoly to give us (zion) something to believe. See how easily we (zion) fell for it. Now lets say that the people with the power today in society know exactly that, cant you see how it can (and is) being used against us.

do you see how as long as we're given a choice; even if we are only aware of those choices at an unconscious level that we all can be lulled to sleep and controlled? the merovingian was right. choice IS an illusion created by those with power.

do you guys see a connection between what i just mentioned and society today? Share your thoughts.

Quote:

Think of Tibet also, or the Tibetian Autonomous Region of China as it's now known. I have absolutely nothing against the Chinese; however, I don't think the government should have moved into Tibet like they did.

Racial interjection of one group of citizens into another in order to break down the language, history and eventually culture of a certain people's is a politically and socially powerful tool with long term success for the invader.

The USSR did it with the Baltic States ( Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia) in the seventies. After two decades of annexation the next generation of kids are less unique in terms of their own indigent culture. The language, customs and culture is changed. Had the Russian army continued to occupy these regions - after 2 or 3 generations, eventually, it might be more Russian than Lithuanian, or Latvian, or Estonian.


Another way to shape a culture to one’s own bent of mind is by changing history.

Some revisionist examples include the denial of the Holocaust , new world discovery, slavery and feudalism.

I found this website if you’re so inclined.

being somewhat aware of some of the details involved with this case, i was surprised at some of the negativity associated with the discussion about it on this forum. should not a fan of the matrix movies conceptually be more enthusiastic to find out the truth behind their making. if, in fact, the movies were produced from an uncredited and uncompensated for script, should not a fan of the movies be the first to symbolically take the "red pill".

you that contend that, even if it is true, that it isn't so important in the scope of the movie production, should take a moment to consider the difficulty of the creative process. creating a property of anything close to this magnitude surely must be like giving birth... and to have that child stolen, only to be presented later as born of the thief... monstrous.

you that present the argument that if ms. stewart had, in fact, written the script, that she should thank those involved in the theft for making a movie that she did not and could not have made, are only speaking from the positions of those that have not and could not make the investments and sacrifices, or take the risks involved, to produce such a powerful piece of work.

...and then the issues of lawsuits, money, and justice...
is it so much the " american way" to profit from the blood of another that we, so ingrained, not only excuse but justify the "letting".

if you were a dogbreeder and devoted your life creating the perfect examples of a breed, and someone stole the pregnant bitch and then sold the award winning litter, who should rightfully be entitled to the profit? should it be exposed who engineered what has now become the benchmark of the breed? could there be compensation for the pain of the loss of your beloved animal and when it is returned barren should you just except this and move on?

have we become champions of violators?

no amount of fanatacism should make us close our eyes to what could be the greatest artistic theft of our generation.

any artist would understand...

I totally agree with you.

That's the best thought I think I've ever heard on this site.

I think the most important thing is that we stay objective because we don't know all the facts and details. However, it's human nature for us to question someone who claims to have been responsible for the creation of the movies since there are so many frivilous claims within our society.

Yes, but we've seen the extracts from the third eye and it doesn't seem to have much resemblance to what we have seen in the movies. If it did, we might have reason to be interested.

Do remember that the most intriguing thing about the matrix is its presentation which sophia stewart cannot take responsibiliy for.

You know, although I've only known about this case for a short time I have already made my mind up.

Now I'm going to spark up a stogie and walk to the pub, case closed! in other words I think its all bollocks, and for a time I nearly got suckered into believing some of it, but I think SS is a loon, as nutty as they come.

As I'm so fond of saying in the real world:

Good luck love, thar gonna need it (Yorkshire Lingo).

if the most compelling things about a sci-fi movie are its special effects then that movie is a failure. more often than not it is the writing that inspires the visual "style" of a movie.
is the movie usually better than the book?

most writers have editors of some sort. even our most gifted authors must at some point be proof-read. one has only to listen to ms. stewart describe the writing proces as it pertains to the construction of this story to conclude that she is, at the least, capable of the level of thought required to execute such a property.

upon inspection, all the legalities... time-lines, documentation, copyrites, submissions, etc., all add up in her favor. can you imagine how difficult it must be to convince a legal team to bring a law suit against one of the the most powerful corporate conglomerates in the world.

this is not a local small claims court issue...
in a federal court litigation, the evidence requirement to sustain this case is far beyond "frivilous". motions to dismiss have already been denied. this is a matter of public record.
the ramifications of this alone are huge.

this brings me to the issue of race.
it is no secret at this point that sophia stewart is a "black" woman. this poses a serious problem to those who subscribe to the fantasy that, because someone just like themselves created this property, that it could just as easily be them who did it.
man, if me and my buddies took some time off from watching the games at the pub...
man, if i just had wrote down that idea i had in high school during chemistry class...
if someone who "looks" like you creates the property that you identify with and thus emotionally connect to, is it not easier to invest?
in fact, it is more likely that the person who sits at a desk for endless hours, for months (or years) at a time, writing instead of hanging out with the fellas, probably looks more like your high school science teacher than matt damon.

why is it so difficult to believe that a "black" person could have conceived such a profound intellectual property? why does this conceptual possibility incurr such anger?
in this day an age can not a black man play quarterback?

the only real questions here are whether this is theft or intellectual convergence.

did a couple of white guys in high school come up with the exact same creative formula that a college educated and literary black woman did back in th early 80's...
it could happen.
... or after they solicited for sci-fi production ideas in a comic book newspaper...
it could happen.
did they maybe borrow the ideas from some other property...
maybe.
was it a tarantino-esque "homage"...
i'm reaching here.

l can't wait to see how the case plays out.

i hope someone doesn't buy out her attorneys... after all, this is ameri...

I agree with you, and you bring up a lot of good points.
The problem is we can't answer the question of whether or not Stewart's claim is credible or if the Wachowski's are innocent of this crime. All we can do is express our opinions.

Quote:

...and then the issues of lawsuits, money, and justice... is it so much the " american way" to profit from the blood of another that we, so ingrained, not only excuse but justify the "letting".

this is a shockingly poor statement to make..."to profit from the blood of another"....

i remind you that it was the wachowski who spent 7 years crafting the matrix from beginning to end and now someone wants to take a nice slice of the pie without having to prove she deserves it

she says it herself in interview that she doesnt need to prove that her story influenced the matrix...only that someone had her script on set during the making of the matrix


given the absurdity that would allow that as proof given the fact that many directors and actors read scripts from a possible future film while making the current one...how can that form of "proof" be acceptable

i ask a question of those who support sophia

has any of the content you have read from the third eye been blatently ripped off to create the matrix

the only reference i see is the term of "the one"

and thats something that has be used in countless films and stories over hundreds of years

also...is she going to sue tha makers of the chronicles of riddick for the copying of the idea of a king killing all the children to stop the person that would bring his downfall?

no...why not....cause its just another play on the story of Jochebed and moses from exodus in the bible

well put anomaly, as always.

Quote:

she says it herself in interview that she doesnt need to prove that her story influenced the matrix...only that someone had her script on set during the making of the matrix

Hi anomaly,
I wish to backtrack for a moment on your above quoted comment.

Supposing its true, what do you think would be a fair and venerable outcome in a situation whereby the person(s) who make a movie, while doing so, have on set, a copy of a script from a person that they ( now have to) ASSUMINGLY claim they and their script draw no inspiration from?

By the way, I read an interesting article in, of all places, Vanity Fair, where an officer of the law was asked what was one of the best reasons for being a cop. His response, was that he could mete out instant justice...

sorry - I digress - read something you posted awhile back - guess it stuck...carry on...

the ship, descriptions and characterizations of the entire crew, almost all of the major characters from the first movie (albeit with names changed), descriptions of the sentinels, actual scenes...

coincidence...

if it is true, how are you affected?

do the w bros. have a script copyrite for the 1st movie with either of their names on it?
anomaly, have you seen it?
has anyone heard of such a script prior to rewrites for the first film?
scripts from any other major, and not so major film are readily available, why not this one?
why would warner bros. produce a movie without such a script?
is it hollywood general practice to do derivative properties?
who pitched?

with just a shred of proof this lawsuit is easily dispelled. the defendants in this lawsuit owe it to loyal fans like "anomaly" to either show some evidence or come clean. save the taxpayers some money.

show me a treatment, plot outline with character descriptions...
show me a basic plot synopsis...
anything written prior to movie production with the w bros. name on it...
any of these things must be in the production "bible".
something... anything...
after what "anomoly" states are 7 years of work, surely something was signed and dated for verification.

as a film enthusiast and a genuine fan of sci-fi, i would truly love to see it.

To answer the question of who has the power , YOU the individual has .

As for the race issue , why is it that people want to lable themselves ( African American ) people who do this place themselves into classes , why is it that there is a black miss america ? Is it because they want to be seperate from all other americans ? Why is that so ? Not just talking about blacks here , but also Irish Americans ect , yes you maybe be black , but you where born in america ? If you where then you are american , who happens to be black , simple ! Yes you may have a kinship with others and heritage and a different culture , but then try and live by those cultures while being in america , then you can claim to be both.

Unless you have actuall living family in africa , it still does not make you african , unless you associate being black as a state of mind ... How many African Americans can positivly proove from which tribe they come from ? Yes records are lost ect i can afford you that , but how many have tried . How many have tried to find out ?

Getting back to this woman and her case , most would agree it would not change how we view the films , or what we take from each film , who the author or the colour of her skin make a difference as to our insights to the films ? If so then you can claim racism , what everyone is complaining about , are the facts , or lack thereof , please give us the public the entire Third Eye let us make up our own minds , we do not have all the facts , if we did we could have solved this a long time ago , but then again if we had all the facts and evidence we might see a different outcome to many things , such as who really killed JFK .

Boxer R65 wrote:

Quote: she says it herself in interview that she doesnt need to prove that her story influenced the matrix...only that someone had her script on set during the making of the matrix Hi anomaly, I wish to backtrack for a moment on your above quoted comment. Supposing its true, what do you think would be a fair and venerable outcome in a situation whereby the person(s) who make a movie, while doing so, have on set, a copy of a script from a person that they ( now have to) ASSUMINGLY claim they and their script draw no inspiration from? By the way, I read an interesting article in, of all places, Vanity Fair, where an officer of the law was asked what was one of the best reasons for being a cop. His response, was that he could mete out instant justice... sorry - I digress - read something you posted awhile back - guess it stuck...carry on...

hi boxer r65

the burden of proof is not upon the wachowski to prove that they didn't copy the third eye

it is upon sophia stewart to prove that the w brother DID copy it

so i merely ask why she would suggest her intention to fight a plagerism case on a legal basis whereby she wouldn't have to prove the likeness

only the fact that people had her story on set during the making of the matrix....regardless of the fact that it has no resemblence to the matrix story

isnt this an absurd way to fight a case of COPYright theft....without having to prove that copying took place

does this also mean that if i am reading a book at the same time as writing a book which then gets published and makes millions for me....then the writer of the book i was reading can sue me because their book must have influenced mine because i was reading it at the time....even though their are no similarities between my book and theirs....is that plagerism....more to the point....does it even make any sense

Is this crazy broad Stewart suing William Gibson, too?

Gimme a break, already.

There was another version of the first Matrix that was re-edited and re-released? Umm. OK.

let us consider for a moment the process of shooting a movie...

but first, let me thank those of you who either play devil's advocate or attack ms. stewart outright for her claims. your arguments have served to clarify this situation for me.

... if the script was present during the shooting who would have been carrying it for display on the set.

-the actors... definitely not, too distracting, difficult enough just to know your role and stay in character...
-the crew... definitely not, difficult enough just to follow your technical direction and stay on point (in most cases the crews schedule is more hectic than the actors)
-the extras... no, they are usually only carrying what they are instructed to... besides, where would they get a copy of the manuscript?

... come to think of it, who could have had access to such a manuscript, and what use would it be on the set other than for reference?

the quality of commentary and discussion on this board is generally one of sound intellect. in respect to that i propose that we look at the circumstances involved and the facts already available and come up with logical inferences.

... if i am directing a movie (very demanding process i assure you), for what reason would i be accessing an outside script?
... if i am writing a book, am i really reading someone else's creative work?
... at this point it is excepted fact that a transcript exists but apparently is not available to the public except in exerpts. if it was present during the shoot, there are only a few who would have had access to it... and it would have to be of a deliberate nature. how long did they have it?

please forget the race, gender, or style of dress of those who are involved here, let us examine the specifics of what happened that we, at this point know of.

if chewbacca is a wookie... on en-dor... with the ewoks... it doesn't make sense

Charles Dance claimed that he was reading the script for Ladies In Lavender while making a different movie. That doesn't mean that the script writer for Ladies In Lavender deserves royalties for Dance's previous movie as well as for the actual movie based on his script does it?

Reading something is not a crime. Copying it is. If there is no resemblance between the matrix and the third eye (which considering the bits we have seen, there isn't) then there is no case - end of story.

yup.

but remember that there are employees at warner bros who say that they saw them using a script to refer to while making their movie(whoa, so unheard of!). and aparently that script was sophias. did these employees see a script first hand with her name on it? that said plain as day, property of sophia stewart (or whatever name it was she put on it). or are they just saying that they saw them referring to a script and they assumed it was hers? as noted earlier, who on the set would have had the script?

larry-"here camera man, hang on to this stolen script, while i go pee, and go ahead and look through it in its entirety to see that this is not my work."

how would anyone besides the brothers and sophia know what is and isnt their work or hers to be able to say that they were using her work?

Well, at least no one has been lynched yet.

I think this can aslo be attributed to the culture of 'sueing'. School trips in the UK are cancelled because of fear of sueing. School fairs have banned homemade cake stalls in case of legal battles over food poisoning.

Any updates on this case?

Also, from the page-extract I read of Ms Stewart's scripts, they're not very good. The quality of writing is really quite poor.

Anyway, race simply does not come into this case. It's like I said earlier: any conflict between persons of different races has the threat of 'racism' hanging over it, regardless of the argument's content.

Discuss.

greyrevealed : I read some of your posts here,and i 'd like to say thanks, for posting the way you do. Keeping an open mind, and the adrenaline at bay.

This is a productive discussion, thanks to you , to "anomaly", to "fatpie", to "allone", to "comet", to "boxer" , "El Escogido" etc.

Your point of "why have a story on set to consult, while its not your own" is valid BUT :

1. first we must wait to see if such a thing DID actually happen
2. if what they were reading WAS indeed Sophia's
3. as others said, what you READ on set, cannot hold you...no wait....let me rephrase....SHOULD not hold you responsible for Copyright violation. Peoplecould be reading a number of things. If you think of it, the next step, is arresting someone because he THOUGHT of stealing something ! (minority report style).
4. again,as anomaly said, there MUST be SIGNIFICANT similarity , (or be identical), in order to win in court.

I mean, here we are, calling someone guilty, just because he is silent so far. Sophias copyright dates dont mean a thing, if significant similarities cannot be proved. In this area (of prooving similarities) Sophias side is silent too. Why not call her guilty too? Cause she said that she cant say but only in court? Well cant that apply to the other side as well? Its not the WB that have to prove anything. Its Sophia.

Anyone else find it ironic that her name is Sophia?

Considering all the Gnosticism floating around in the Matrix, that is...