»The "Race Card" is legitimate in this and many oth«

It never fails. ...white people (especially multibillion dollar coporations like fox and wb) are known to steal things and then take credit for it---look at history (duh) its been going on um... since....forever. no offense to anyone..its just how it was/is. you have to be stuck in the matrix NOT to see that. im not saying this woman is legit...but im just saying keep an open mind. its highly possible...

i know a lot of people dont want to let go of the "fact" that the wachowski brothers created the whole trilogy because it would destroy your whole reality. it would open up a pandoras box. and everything you guys are trying to figure out about the trilogy would be put into question. this cult like thing going on with the trilogy and this thing with sofia stewart would make your heads explode...i didnt wanna let it go when i heard, but now its starting to sink in.

look, all im saying is keep an open mind. wait until you hear ALL THE FACTS first and READ THE WHOLE "THIRD EYE" story (81,82,83). i know its kinda hard to deal with....lol...relax

IEMan99 wrote:

...white people are known to steal things

and black people are all junkie crack head welfare defrauding rapists who ALSO steal things

or is this another sweeping generalisation that is an insult to millions of people

check YOUR history buddy boy. nuff said.

the anomaly wrote:

IEMan99 wrote: ...white people are known to steal things and black people are all junkie crack head welfare defrauding rapists who ALSO steal things or is this another sweeping generalisation that is an insult to millions of people

haha, anomaly has made a very good point.. the generalisation of any 'race' or social group is a gross over-simplification that does not help anybody, whether they are in the majority or minority.

we should not fall into the trap of mistaking social factors with 'race' generalisations.

oh, im sorry...its just so hard to escape the fact of what history proves to be true. Maybe it is just a coincidence that the majority of the horrors of this country were commited by caucasions....like i said, check YOUR history....

like it or not...it IS what it IS

i am perfectly aware of history, but this isn't an issue of history.. the fact is, put anyone in a position of power and there will always be a significant number who abuse it, regardless or 'race' (if there even is such a thing)

since ur just repeating what u said, so will i... don't confuse social factors with racial ones.. if u want to talk about ending racism there should be consistency, how can u fight racism with racism? do u actually think that will help?

ofcourse not, but lets not get too much away from my my original post. you cant really seperate the two factors, social & racial. they go hand in hand..especially when it comes to the POWERS in this country. who do you see mostly on television? who owns most television stations? corporations? its not african americans i'll tell u that. but anyway, dont wanna turn this into a huge racial thing..

the main point of my post, disregarding the title of it, is that i see a lot of posts saying this woman, sofia stewart, is a crazy-woman- liar..all im saying is keep an open mind..and to think that theft like that is impossible? well you are lying to yourself...just let the facts come to the surface instead of jumping to conclusions.. iheard this woman talk and she's really a deep person. just keep an open mind. thats it.

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Whats the point in making a thread to say "keep an open mind" on a matrix forum?
From your first post you seem to be saying that it might have been stolen because white people are all theives.
I wonder how people would react if the directors were black and someone said that all black people are theives.
It sounds like you really have nothing to say and are just sitting on the fence as it where and trying to appear intelligent without making any real contribution.

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nuff said

IEMan99 wrote:

but anyway, dont wanna turn this into a huge racial thing..

what do u mean? u didn't need to do anything to turn it into a racial thing since u already set that tone from the start by saying "white people are known to steal things".. you even titled this thread "the RACE CARD is legitimate.."

and about keeping an open mind.. i have kept an open mind the whole time.. and i've looked at the "facts" as u put it and the evidence that has been made available and all i can say is that SO FAR, there is nothing that has convinced me.. the pages of the 3rd eye that i read were terrible and didn't resemble the matrix in anyway that could be described as "stealing".. and the fact that i heard that she's now gonna sue James Cameron for stealing Terminator as well.. it's just starting to seem a little ridiculous.

excuse the yelling but....IM SO SICK AND TIRED OF PEOPLE BEING RACIST. Black people are the more racists ones nowadays. Many white people respect blacks but when they always throw the race card at people its like they want to dwell on the fact that they are black and better than everyone else because they are black. thats why its bullcrap that race is even an issue. shes just trying to get sympathy for an outrages lawsuit, so she can win, because shes black and bad things only happen to black people. its bull. I wish people would just stop the stereo typing. and whats the deal with you saying that white people steal fropm blacks but if someone counters you by saying all blacks are crackhead junkies who are repopulating the earth with crackhead babies, you seem to get mad. so its ok for you to stereotype but its not ok for anyone else?

Yaldaboath wrote:

Whats the point in making a thread to say "keep an open mind" on a matrix forum? From your first post you seem to be saying that it might have been stolen because white people are all theives. I wonder how people would react if the directors were black and someone said that all black people are theives. It sounds like you really have nothing to say and are just sitting on the fence as it where and trying to appear intelligent without making any real contribution. Quote: nuff said

the point of me putting "keep an open mind" in a matrix forum was because after reading a lot of posts regarding sofia stewart i could see that a lot of you were not keeping an open mind. the facts are not out yet. all you've seen was a couple excerpts from the essay that was written. can anyone tell me how many pages there are in total? just curious...

for me to say that ALL white people are thieves is wrong...i admit..of course they're not ALL theives. they're not ALL thieves who sail across an ocean and looking to bring back goods, end up "discovering" certain places and then murdering the very people that helped them survive. they're not ALL theives who exported africans to distant lands to work for free while raping their culture away for hundreds of years. they're not ALL theives. dont get me wrong i know a lot of good white people. all im saying is who REALLY has the power now? HISTORY tells the story. NOT the little stories that the media creates to make you believe certain things (i.e all blacks are theive crack heads who kill their moms). This is gettin deepr than i wanted to.

who REALLY has the power now AND in the past? no one has really answered that for me yet.

wAkE_uP_nEo wrote:

IEMan99 wrote: but anyway, dont wanna turn this into a huge racial thing.. what do u mean? u didn't need to do anything to turn it into a racial thing since u already set that tone from the start by saying "white people are known to steal things".. you even titled this thread "the RACE CARD is legitimate.." and about keeping an open mind.. i have kept an open mind the whole time.. and i've looked at the "facts" as u put it and the evidence that has been made available and all i can say is that SO FAR, there is nothing that has convinced me.. the pages of the 3rd eye that i read were terrible and didn't resemble the matrix in anyway that could be described as "stealing".. and the fact that i heard that she's now gonna sue James Cameron for stealing Terminator as well.. it's just starting to seem a little ridiculous.

i noticed that white people hate being called racists...you guys are sensitive when it comes to that these days. i guess because it puts you guys in a position to where its hard to defend your self. like in "the apprentice" when omarosa said that the other girl (forgot her name) said the N word. the other girl felt like she REALLY had to explain and defend herself. i guess it does feel kind of awkward to yall.

"evidence that has been made available" you said it all right there. BACk to my main point...keep an open mind... know that hmmm..maybe, ALLL the evidence has NOT been made available.. i'd like to read the WHOLE essay. i hope she releases it so we can put this shizznit to rest. Maybe we'll see the similarities between the 3rd Eye, Matrix, and The Terminator. SHE did submit her essay to the Wachowski Brothers, Fox, AND Warner when they were looking for new talent to work with back in the days. and according to her, the FBI is behind her.

i heard her on a couple radio stations here in NY and im tellin you guys, she sounds legit. and im a hard person to convince..i didnt want to believe it either.

Agent Zero wrote:

excuse the yelling but....IM SO SICK AND TIRED OF PEOPLE BEING RACIST. Black people are the more racists ones nowadays. Many white people respect blacks but when they always throw the race card at people its like they want to dwell on the fact that they are black and better than everyone else because they are black. thats why its bullcrap that race is even an issue. shes just trying to get sympathy for an outrages lawsuit, so she can win, because shes black and bad things only happen to black people. its bull. I wish people would just stop the stereo typing. and whats the deal with you saying that white people steal fropm blacks but if someone counters you by saying all blacks are crackhead junkies who are repopulating the earth with crackhead babies, you seem to get mad. so its ok for you to stereotype but its not ok for anyone else?

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and whats the deal with you saying that white people steal fropm blacks but if someone counters you by saying all blacks are crackhead junkies who are repopulating the earth with crackhead babies, you seem to get mad.

i understand you cant relate. its like me telling a blind person i understand what you're going through. that would be asinine. ofcoures i couldnt..i would have to be blind to understand. well i can tell from most of your posts that you guys are not black. and i know that you couldnt POSSIBLY relate to what young black men are going through (gettin pulled over, getting fucked up by police, and profiled)....and i understand that., i dont really expect you to.

i dont get mad when u say "all blacks are crackhead junkies who are repopulating the earth with crackhead babies" because that statement is ludacris in AND of itself. that statement is a gross misrepresentation of blacks as usual....u forgot to say we are all on welfare. lol.

where as the theft of your people is evident even to today..(i.e president bush...he knew damn welll there werent weapons of mass destruction over there, but because of the attempt at his fathers life AND the fact that Iraq is extremely close to where its at when it comes to oil he sends troops over there to TAKE it under the guise "we have to eliminate the enemy ("THE EVIL DOERS" lol) because they have weapons of mass destruction) give me a F'in break.

Check your history.

and give sofia stewart a chance to tell her story :

and stop bein so sensitive. we're all men here lol

IEMan99 wrote:

the point of me putting "keep an open mind" in a matrix forum was because after reading a lot of posts regarding sofia stewart i could see that a lot of you were not keeping an open mind. the facts are not out yet. all you've seen was a couple excerpts from the essay that was written. can anyone tell me how many pages there are in total? just curious... for me to say that ALL white people are thieves is wrong...i admit..of course they're not ALL theives. they're not ALL thieves who sail across an ocean and looking to bring back goods, end up "discovering" certain places and then murdering the very people that helped them survive. they're not ALL theives who exported africans to distant lands to work for free while raping their culture away for hundreds of years. they're not ALL theives. dont get me wrong i know a lot of good white people. all im saying is who REALLY has the power now? HISTORY tells the story. NOT the little stories that the media creates to make you believe certain things (i.e all blacks are theive crack heads who kill their moms). This is gettin deepr than i wanted to. who REALLY has the power now AND in the past? no one has really answered that for me yet.

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because that statement is ludacris in AND of itself

Ludacris is a rapper btw. Ludicrous is the word I think you were looking for

The past events you talk about were wrong and should never have happened but that doesnt mean that you can use it as an excuse for your biggotry. Im sure that any race of people in the position of power will exploit it. If you are to say that white people are natuarally geared towards evil and that no other race will exploit power you are being very small minded. Im not saying the horrors of slavery didnt happen but you can never trust any history because it is always written to favour someone and can never be a 100% accurate record, in this respect it cannot be separated from the ideologies conveyed by the media.

Anyway this forum is not for discussion of racial sterotypes.
I was merely saying no sane society could possibly decide the outcome of a modern multimillion dollar court case on the events for hundreds of years ago and the stereotype of white people being pillagers and blacks being victims. These stereotypes are both inaccurate and offencive and anyone basing a theory on these being true is both a biggot and a poor debater.
I would like to say that I am mixed race by the way, just so that you dont try to bring out the argument that you are black and everyone else is white and hates you. Im afraid it wont wash.

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Ludacris is a rapper btw. Ludicrous is the word I think you were looking for

thanks for the spelling help,

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The past events you talk about were wrong and should never have happened but that doesnt mean that you can use it as an excuse for your biggotry.

Who is a biggot? just because im bringing up the past (and present, but i admit its not as bad as the past) doesnt make me a biggot. i never said i HATE white people. like i said in an earlier post..i have a lot of white friends. and i judge them as individuals and not as a whole, because they are good hearted people..but if you do look at their race as a whole, and NOT based on a couple things, but on MOST things that DID happen in the past, what would your conclusion? assumption? generalization? BE?
its speaks for itself (is my answer), what is yours? (i really would like to know yours).

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Im sure that any race of people in the position of power will exploit it. If you are to say that white people are natuarally geared towards evil and that no other race will exploit power you are being very small minded.

if you really read my question, the one where i left a space around so you could SEE the question you would have seen "who REALLY has the power now AND in the past? no one has really answered that for me yet". ofcourse people with power would exploit it. i understand power is very intoxicating. im reading books on it right now...and no one said "naturally geared", im sorry if thats what you got from it, thats WHY i said "it is what it is/was"....meaning let the past speak for itself. IT IS WHAT IT IS/WAS..that cant be changed. they ARE the ones with the power NOW and in the past.

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Im not saying the horrors of slavery didnt happen but you can never trust any history because it is always written to favour someone and can never be a 100% accurate record, in this respect it cannot be separated from the ideologies conveyed by the media.

you are correct sir. you cannot trust any history and the ideologies of the media at that time does play a part in it.. thats why i look at today's times to verify whether the past was true (in terms of power of course). i dont know for sure if christopher columbus REALLY set out with 3 ships...it might have been 2, or 1 even. i dont know for sure if emitt till REALLY said anything derogatory to that white woman when he was going to visit his family in the south. but what i do know is what i see today, and thats undeniable...

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Anyway this forum is not for discussion of racial sterotypes.

This forum is about the matrix movies, but what about what the movies were trying to get across? everyone here got something different from them...and they all are equally legitimate. it was meant to wake you up and things for what they really are. and in a way, even though most of you do not like it, thats what im trying to do. when i saw the movies and thought a little more deep into it thats what i got from it. it made me think about the past and the present and how some things need to be pointed out.

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I was merely saying no sane society could possibly decide the outcome of a modern multimillion dollar court case on the events for hundreds of years ago and the stereotype of white people being pillagers and blacks being victims.

i just cant get the picture out of my head of sofia sending that essay to the wachowski brothers and them saying..who's gonna believe this little woman from california? black at that. i cant. that doesnt make me a biggot. it just makes me aware of how things CAN be (and remember, the 80s were only 20 years after the civil rights movement, things are just starting to really change now). i've seen it. it has even happened to me.

that doesnt make me a biggot. it just makes me aware. if you're not looking for it and it doesnt happen to you, you couldnt possible relate to it--like i previously said.. some things such as racism run deep. its deeply enbedded in our psyche. we are not even aware of it sometimes. we're born into this. you can say all you want that "im not a racist, im not prejudice", but deep deep deep deep down its there...especially over here in the states ( u 're from england, right?)

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These stereotypes are both inaccurate and offencive (its "offensive" )

how are they inaccurate?

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and anyone basing a theory on these being true is both a biggot and a poor debater.

how so?

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I would like to say that I am mixed race by the way, just so that you dont try to bring out the argument that you are black and everyone else is white and hates you. Im afraid it wont wash.

no one is saying ALL are white on this board, and hate me, i was "merely" saying you couldnt possible relate to anything that i go through as a young black male. even YOU. however for u, being mixed, i understand you might have your own set of problems (like where do you fit in life). or maybe not. i'd like to know.

anyway back to question at hand. did the wachowski brothers steal? ?

it has YET to be deteremined.

and again, stop being so sensitive.... we're all men in here. lol

All the black people i know which is a lot. I live in the ghetto! They never get profiled. even when they are pulled over or anything its cause there speeding not cause there black. i think to say that racial profiling against blacks is still going on is stupid. the only racial profiling going on right now is toward middle eastern people. HAHA. If you were not black you would see that sophia has nop case. but since you are and im not being racist hetre but you feel for her cuase shes black too. i seriously hope this goes to preliminary hearings and the judge laughs his ass off as it.

Why can't human beings get over race and realize that we are ALL people?

I agree with one of your points agent zero, middle-eastern people seem to be targeted more than any group at the moment, this is motivated partyly by the faschist american govt. The media also portrays them all as suiside bombers or beggers. I find it discusting personally.

IEman99 Going back to your point about being from the states and it being differnt there. I think that is a very significant factor in your bleak outlook.
Im not saying England's perfect (which it is far from) but nowadays there are very few rascist (well compared to before).
I find it quite funny and some of my friends agree: Most Indian people seem more english than the white folks. Before Indians arrived shops used to close at 5 pm everyday and no shops would be open in the weekends, just goes to show our lazy english attitude! well some would call it relaxed :p There isnt really any racial tension between black people and white people but there is a problem of black underacheivement in school, which leads to antisocial behaviour.
Too few black males pass their exams, white male are in the average while white girls are slightly higher and people of asian decent performing best.
The struggles in England are mainly class based (Working class, Middle class and Upper class) so the classes tend to stick together because they're all in the same situation.

lol I think ive gone far enough off topic already.

My view on the issue is the with the american law suit frenzy the wachowskis wouldnt dare even having any similarities that they were aware of, maybe her text subliminally influenced them but then so does everything.
The issue of questioning reality has been around as long as we have, the matrix has about roughly a million links to other texts, you dont see them all 'getting their seu on' because they respect the development of art, or cant afford the get rich quick way of a law suit.
The fact that she is trying it on with terminator too makes her case even less plausible, it seems asthough she is just making loose links to the most popular of the genre and trying to get money.
I also think the genius the W's used making and directing the matrix films proves that they are more than capable of writing the films and comming up with the concepts.

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Why can't human beings get over race and realize that we are ALL people?

Accept for me, im more of a god

Yaldaboath wrote:

Quote: Why can't human beings get over race and realize that we are ALL people? Accept for me, im more of a god

Then make this insanity stop.

maxius wrote:

Why can't human beings get over race and realize that we are ALL people?

yes.. in fact.. there is actually no significant scientific basis for the notion of 'race'.. it is actually more a social construct, not biological.

Yaldaboath wrote:

I agree with one of your points agent zero, middle-eastern people seem to be targeted more than any group at the moment, this is motivated partyly by the faschist american govt. The media also portrays them all as suiside bombers or beggers. I find it discusting personally.

i agree. mid eastern people are the flavor of the month nowadays, however to say that it replaced any other type of racial profiling is not true, at all. i dare any of yall to come to east new york, or queens village, or southside jamaica queens, at night. the cops are all over the place. i dont see them in smithtown long island, and elmont, and valleystream. when i visit those places

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IEman99 Going back to your point about being from the states and it being differnt there. I think that is a very significant factor in your bleak outlook.

not necessarily bleak, more like REAL. thats my reality. everyday.

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Im not saying England's perfect (which it is far from) but nowadays there are very few rascist (well compared to before).

i wouldnt say "very few", i would say "fewer".

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I find it quite funny and some of my friends agree: Most Indian people seem more english than the white folks. Before Indians arrived shops used to close at 5 pm everyday and no shops would be open in the weekends, just goes to show our lazy english attitude! well some would call it relaxed :p There isnt really any racial tension between black people and white people but there is a problem of black underacheivement in school, which leads to antisocial behaviour.

how so?

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Too few black males pass their exams, white male are in the average while white girls are slightly higher and people of asian decent performing best. The struggles in England are mainly class based (Working class, Middle class and Upper class) so the classes tend to stick together because they're all in the same situation.

do you see a relationship between the social classes and the races? if so, what are they?

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lol I think ive gone far enough off topic already. My view on the issue is the with the american law suit frenzy the wachowskis wouldnt dare even having any similarities that they were aware of, maybe her text subliminally influenced them but then so does everything.

how do you know what Wachowski's were thinking at the time? or even now for that matter. they dont really say anything..they're recluses. have you ever heard of em before the matrix movies? no one knows the exact circumstaces, thats why i keep saying WAIT till the facts come out. not those F'in excerpts u see on that website. im tellin you guys, she sounds credible. at least give the woman a chance before you all tear her apart

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The issue of questioning reality has been around as long as we have, the matrix has about roughly a million links to other texts, you dont see them all 'getting their seu on' because they respect the development of art, or cant afford the get rich quick way of a law suit.

again, how do you know what they respect? do you know them personally? even on the DVD extras i dont see them talking or saying anything. to this day. and as far as everyone questioning reality its just too much of a coincidence not to be taken seriously. she did submit her essay to the Wachowski Bros. she was in an LA newspaper back when i was born talking about her new epic that she had written.

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The fact that she is trying it on with terminator too makes her case even less plausible, it seems asthough she is just making loose links to the most popular of the genre and trying to get money.

again, how do you know how loose the links are? your basing this on, what is it? 5 excerpts from an essay. how can u really make that big of an assumption. just wait and see. maybe she is a fluke lyin bitch (which i dont think, just hear this woman speak...she's an intillectual). or maybe she's tellin the truth. the courts will decide. and remember the fbi is behind her.

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I also think the genius the W's used making and directing the matrix films proves that they are more than capable of writing the films and comming up with the concepts.

with out a doubt they are smart. i admire their work (if its really theirs lol) but to prove copy right infringement it doesnt matter if they are capable of coming up with their own ideas and story line. what matters is if they used someone elses and built off of it. the courts will decide. and she has witness that say they saw the wachowskis referriing to the 3rd eye during production. just wait and see Yaldaboath . time will tell.

wAkE_uP_nEo wrote:

maxius wrote: Why can't human beings get over race and realize that we are ALL people? yes.. in fact.. there is actually no significant scientific basis for the notion of 'race'.. it is actually more a social construct, not biological.

youre right, if u opened all of us up we all basically look the same. we all bleed blood. it is a social construct. it IS stupid if you really think about it. ....however that doesnt take away from the fact that racism exists in peoples minds.

Okay, I'm gonna insert something here. Just to possibly provide a balance here. Might it be that IEMan99 made a bit of an error in starting this thread? The mood that was set?

Frankly, it looked like a sort of straw man fallacy. Wherein someone sets up an argument to be deliberatly torn down but then frees the first person to complain about the person who tore down the argument. (There is a much better explanation of that type of fallacy, I know.) Anyway, perhaps this was just a little pick of emotion here.

I personally, have not read any of Sophia's work, nor have been able to find them. But I have heard of this lawsuit she is trying to pull on the Wachowski brothers. Now, I know this isn't fair, but it's always been first come, first serve in the world. The person who punches first usually wins the fight. If this work was indeed and truly Sophia's then she missed her punch by turning the Matrix into a movie, the Wachowski's got the first hit in. Good for them, bad for Sophia. It's too bad, but that's the way things are.

Also, I would love it if someone would tell me when Sophia decided to get the bright idea to sue? Was it after the Matrix? Or after one of the later movies? If it wasn't immediately after she saw the first movie, then she might actually be trying to take advantage of the fact that she had previously written a book similar in story line to the Matrix and thought she could make some quick money suining these now-successful brothers.

Take into consideration also, that this is America, where you can literally sue for spilled milk.

All I can say, really, is for the most part, let's not look at the fact that Sohpia is black or that the Wachowski's are Polish (which they are, or are one of those other middle European nationalities) but rather, how to make an easy bit of pocket change.
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i cant wait to see how this all pans out. i just wanna see the facts. im gonna be following this case. it is interesting. and to answer your ^ question, she filed it after or during the first movie back in 1999.

doesn anyone know when the boxed set is coming out? i'd rather get that than buy the individual movies.

not another race debate...
blacks playing the victim card and feeling good about it.
it was whites who ENDED slavery, remember? what about all the black slaveowners in africa? what about the slave traders, who were also black?
what about all that war, genocide, rape and murder that is going on in africa today? blame whitey is no solution to your problems. gangsta rap und bling bling is. like bill cosby put it: "youre spending 500$ on a pair of sneakers...." the reason why many blacks are still poor is their own ignorance and lazyness. stop worshipping da PIMPs and go to college.