»The TVs in the Architects room«

I don't know if this has been covered, but the TVs seem to be showing Neo's thoughts. Like when he is in denial, they all say "bullshit" Does anyone else think the same or want to discuss?

Yes the TVs represent all the possible reactions Neo is making and the different choices Neo can make. Everytime Neo makes a certain choice in how he reacts, the view zooms into that particular TV and the rest of the scene carries out there. After looking around at the TVs, Neo says- "The problem is choice." At one point, the Architect even says-

Architect: It is interesting, reading your reactions

The TVs is the way the Architect tries to understand choice which is part of his equations. The Oracle, on the other hand, doesnt need those monitors to understand choice and see past choice.

Another interesting thing to see is that when Neo chooses the door to the left, all the TV Neos are going towards the same door. This means this was the only choice Neo could make, the only choice he ever thought of. For him, it wasn't really a choice.

if that is the only choice neo could make after all his experiences is his life, all the factors that played out, and the architect knows this with all the tv, isn't it feasible that the architect wanted him to take the left door? he also kinda taunts him telling him there is no way he can save trininty...was that his "hope"? is he tired of playing out this scenerio with the anomaly again and again? just an absurd thought...

No the Architect doesn't know this from before. He only finds out when Neo is in the chamber. That still doesn't help prove that he wants him to take the left door. Why would he want that? If Neo does that then all humans will die and the Matrix will crash. The Architect doesn't want this. Although once he sees Neo's reaction, he isn't surprised.

so once he factored in each choice neo made zooming into that particular tv he knew from the decisions neo made that he would pick the left door? why when he moves towards the door he says his last little bit about hope? still trying to disway neo into the right door even though the left door is his only choice?

Just wants to talk more techno-babble. Nah just playing.

He is expressing his hate for the human condition. It is essential to the viewer that he hears these lines from the Architect further explaining his nature. His annoyance with hope and choice leads him to say this. `Humph...hope...'

I think bringing Trinity's fall into the matter was plannend by the Architect.

The Architect knew that Neo was going to choose to go back to Trinity no matter what. So he showed him that she is going to die and that he can't do anything to stop it. The Architect is not lying at that moment, he really rationally thinks that Neo is not going to succeed in saving Trinity.
But that's because the Architect doesn't understand irrational things like love, hope and believe.

So the Architect shows him this as a last effort to bend his choice to the right-hand door. But he fails.
Neo's doesn't like authority and he doesn't like to be told things. He believes he can save her, just like he believes none of the Matrix is real.

wouldnt' the architect know that he couldn't save trinity? i mean i think he would know the logistics of the system...distances to trinity's location, the abilites of the one etc. how can he say you can't save her and be thinking it's the truth? because it apparently wasn't true...

Because Neo crosses every boundaries. More boundaries then the previous Ones.

And in fact she did die. Only Neo resurrected her out of love. I guess the Architect did not take that into account.

Mobil_Ave_Neo wrote:

The Architect knew that Neo was going to choose to go back to Trinity no matter what. So he showed him that she is going to die and that he can't do anything to stop it... ...So the Architect shows him this as a last effort to bend his choice to the right-hand door. But he fails.

That is interesting, hadn’t thought of it like that before. But can we really say Neo would have been so overwhelmed with emotion at that moment for trinity had she not entered the matrix to save Neo etc?

wow, you've figured it out

WOW! Just checked this. Never expected anyone to answer. This is good. You know how some people say they saw a foetus in Trinity in the code, when Neo revives her? Did any of you guys see that, cause I sure didn't.

The ONE-der Man wrote:

if that is the only choice neo could make after all his experiences is his life, all the factors that played out, and the architect knows this with all the tv, isn't it feasible that the architect wanted him to take the left door? he also kinda taunts him telling him there is no way he can save trininty...was that his "hope"? is he tired of playing out this scenerio with the anomaly again and again? just an absurd thought...

I've noticed some reply w/'ABSOLUTE KNOWLEDGE' as if they have the 'answer' for sure. I don't think this is the case. None of us have completely thought it out. I thought like you. I think they WANTED NEO to take the LEFT DOOR the whole time.

Don't let someone tell you the 'answer' or that you may not have it by the tail....unless is completely iron clad & clear.

Interesting. No one knows whats in the head of the Architect anyway, so we could never EVER know for sure. Anyone else with an opinion?

What's in the head of the Architect? The TV-screen we see in M1 where Neo is led into the interogation room by the agents is probably one of the Architect's TV-screens, don't you think?

Another phenomena: have you noticed in the Architect's room how one of the screens are chosen and the film is zoomed into and meshed into what is shown in that screen? This means that the TV-screens around the room of the Architect's room are actually *watching* Neo! This line from Simulacra & Simulation could have inspired the W-brothers: "'You no longer watch TV, it is TV that watches you (live),'" (p.29)

A third observation: I think the screens of the Architect have been compared to the theories of Quantum Psychology which builds on the idea that consciousness is a superposition of many "choices" and when the "wave function" collapses, then a choice has been made. (But I don't know if it's possible to foresee which way the "wave equation" will collapse? The Architect must then probably at least be a program running on a quantum computer. Any quantum scientists reading this thread?)

Inevitability wrote:

...So the Architect shows him this as a last effort to bend his choice to the right-hand door. But he fails.

I don't know. It depends.
If the right-hand door and the dissemination of his code would mean that he would be separated from Trinity (her not being part of the new Zion), then he would have most certainly chose the left-hand door.

Code_Morgana wrote:

Interesting. No one knows whats in the head of the Architect anyway, so we could never EVER know for sure. Anyone else with an opinion?

I don't think so. The Architect only thinks purely rational.
But on the other hand. Maybe his intelligence drove him to become 'sick' of the human behaviour. He despices it just like Smith and he secretly wishes that the humans would finally die off.

He cannot destroy the humans, because it is his purpose to balance the equation. So he hopes for an event in wich a human (the One) would choose damnation instead of survival. This way it isn't the Architect's fault.

So maybe the Architect is more of a father to Smith then we might ever suspect. Maybe they share their repulse against humans and have a desire to smash them into oblivion.

Interesting, interesting! I love all the opinions and ideas thats here. If anyone else has anything to say, could you do it please?

Inevitability wrote:

But can we really say Neo would have been so overwhelmed with emotion at that moment for trinity had she not entered the matrix to save Neo etc?

Mobil_Ave_Neo wrote:

I don't know. It depends. If the right-hand door and the dissemination of his code would mean that he would be separated from Trinity (her not being part of the new Zion), then he would have most certainly chose the left-hand door.

Sorry Mobil_Ave_Neo, I am presuming that was your response to what I said.


Hmmm…. I’m not so sure. Neo has built up quite a bit of fear regarding Trinity entering the Matrix and falling from his visions or dreams of her falling. He also is quite dependant upon her…’I cant loose you’ I think he says. He asked her to stay out. Now she’s in and what he fears is happening.

If she had stayed out I don’t think he would have been overwhelmed and ‘blinded’ by it. His choice could have been different. It makes me wonder too if the Arc hadn’t brought it up would Neo have perceived it in time …before she hit the ground? Perhaps the Ark knew that she would die reading Neo’s fear from the knowledge he has from the vision and knows Neo would still go to her even after she hits the deck? So he reveals it knowing it’ll happen anyway.

It’s the crucial turning point in the story and this vision appears to be something independent of the Oracles knowledge as she asks Neo what happens in the dream from her encounter with him in M2. Also she says 'you've got the sight now'

Interesting.

what's also kind of creepy is that the architect's tv's are identical to the ones in M1 that show the security camera of Neo being questioned by the agents.

Ok, you want diverse ideas, I got a doozy.

Reading the posts so far (here and elsewhere) there are a couple of things that seem to stand out.

1. The Architect seems to want neo to choose the Right Door
2. The presense of Trinity in the Matrix seems to give Neo more of a tug towards the Left Door

Which leads me to a couple of possibilities regarding Big A;

1. The Architect beleived that Neo seeing Trinity Die would push him to the Right. He was obviously wrong about this.
2. The Architect wanted Trinity in the Matrix about as much as Neo did - ie. not at all.

Now if the first of these is true, the architect could have had a hand in luring Trinity back into the Matrix. If the second is true, he certainly didn't.

Trinity was in the matrix in response to a sentinel attack (on the other ship) which some see as "providence", others see as manipulation

So was trinity brought into the Matrix intentionally to influence Neos Choice?

A lot of ifs and buts I know, but I'm getting there.

To summarise, I see three final possibilities - the first two being the current favourites;

1) Trinity's presence in the Matrix is purely by chance - random luck, whatever. This is one accepted viewpoint.
2) Trinity was lured into the Matrix by the Architect to try (mistakenly) to persuade Neo to choose the right door.

or (an this is the new one)

3) Trinity was lured into the matrix by someone or something other than the Architect to persuade Noe to take the Left door and stop the Reload.

But who would do such a thing?

Smith - no longer part of the system,
Merovingian - Does he have the necessary connections?
Deus Ex Machine - Do the machines oppose the Architects plans?
The Oracle - Now that is a scary idea.

I think its 1. Lots of people think its 1. The Architect must tell Neo about Trinity though. If he doesn't, Neo doesn't know the whole truth and hence the choice he makes will not count. Thats why the Architect tells him the truth about Zion and the other ones as well. If Neo makes a choice that doesn't count, the system will not be able to stabalize. Neo is the sum of the remainder of the unbalance in the equation. The Architect is trying to get this remainder to return to the equation. But that decision has to be of free choice because otherwise the entire solution is flawed. Why? Because choice led to the anomaly and choice has to lead to get rid of the anomaly too. The Matrix runs on choice.

I think it’s 1 too, as I think there are too many variables outside the matrix that cause Trinity’s entrance at that moment. Which has to make you wonder? How can Neo be seeing it in his dream, Also the Oracle seems to be saying something profoundly spiritual…

Oracle: You have the sight now, Neo, you are looking at the world without time.

This may be the first real hint at a spiritual element for explaining Neo’s sight in the story and indeed Trinity’s entrance. It maybe the real meaning/reason for it all happening this way.

Providence?

I choose 3!

It's not the Architect. (Obviously.) It's not really even the Oracle. She would incorporate it into her vision, but she didn't see it herself (cf. Reloaded). I think it is the 'something beyond.' The Mystery, if you will. The god of Man (as opposed to the god of Machine). I think that Man, as a whole, is responsible for the anomaly, as well as the solution, and the change (that the Oracle works towards).

In a way, it's folly to think that it's a conscious effort of an entity; it is simply 'fate', or 'destiny,' or perhaps the 'sum of the remainder'.... the equation trying to balance itself. Remember, 'while the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific..." Neo has already shown that he has 'some skill'... he has surpassed his predecessors in many respects. Now, vis-a-vis love, he has concordantly surpassed all expectations, and implemented the desired -- nay, the necessary -- change.

I must admit, and am forced to remember, I am a bit drunk right now, and it's very late! But I think I have a point... whether it has been sufficiently posed remains to be seen....

annaerullo wrote:

I choose 3! I think it is the 'something beyond.' The Mystery, if you will. The god of Man (as opposed to the god of Machine). I think that Man, as a whole, is responsible for the anomaly, as well as the solution, and the change (that the Oracle works towards). In a way, it's folly to think that it's a conscious effort of an entity; it is simply 'fate', or 'destiny,' or perhaps the 'sum of the remainder'.... the equation trying to balance itself.

I absolutely agree. Bang on. We need to ‘feel’ this movie. Read it with our hearts as well as our minds. I guess I must have read the question list wrong. 3 would be my choice then as well.

One more thing which cannot be forgotten: The Architect most have known that if Trinity didn't come to the save the situation, that whole floor with Neo would have blown up when the key got turned by the Keymaker, and Neo would have never made it to the Architect, and the consequently wouldn't have made it to the Source, and the Anomaly would then might become too great for the Matrix to bear, ... something which must have been arlarming to the Architect!

/z