»Origin of Smith, Anti-Thesis of Neo«

This may have been said before but here goes....

Is Smith's mutation from agent to Uber Agent deliberate or not?

The oracle says:

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That man can't see past any choice.He treats everything as variables in an equation.

So therefore that implies some sort of balance that the Architect is trying to uphold. Assuming that Neo is Variable X and Smith is Variable Y and their abilities are equal. The Equation is X = Y

Their increse in abilites is represented by the Variable Z then the equation is:

X + Z =Y

This upsets the balance so therefore the archtect would intervene and give power to Smith to maintain balance. Now the Equation is:

X + Z = Y + Z

Also what made Smith the candidate for this increase?
Was it the fact that he was destroyed by Neo
Or because he was the one assigned to track and destroy Neo?
I mean if he was destroyed, he is therefore obsolete and will either be destroyed or sent in "Exile". For some odd reason, Smith decided to stay in the matrix. Now this also raises the question that "Wouldn't there be some sort of cleaning program that searched for programs that are obsolete and dont go into exile or are deleted (Assuming that the programs in exile are out of reach of these cleaning programs)?". So does that mean that Smith was already powerful enough to resist and assimilate this programs?

Yes I think your right.

The Architect made Smith this way.

He programmed Smith as a frustrated and sadistic agent. It is inevitable for him to become the Anti One.

Many people don't believe this. But just watch the movie.
The W-brothers pay attention to EVERY detail.

Smith is the only agent with a grunch in M1. The other two just do their jobs and don't really care.

The new main agent Johnson, who fights Morpheus on the truck has about the same sadistic and frustrated facial expressions as Smith.

The other two new agents have much more neutral facial expressions.
To my opinion this is done on purpose by the W-brothers and the actors.
An actor is an actor; he can look sadistic, he can look neutral. He follows the directions and the script.

The more we think like the Architect, in equations and variables the moe will fail to perceive like him. The ‘coin’ has two sides, an intellectual side which the Arc understands very well, and an emotional, which he doesn’t have a clue.

In order to understand Smith and everything else we are going to have to ‘feel’ it, as much as ‘calculate’ it.

Smith's origin is rooted in the Second renaissance.

I believe that the Architect balanced the equation and hence created Smith. However, I do not believe it was his choice to do so or not. It was inevitable and the Architect couldn't do anything to stop it. It is because of the rules of the system.

Also that number plate of Smith's car says `Behold, I have created the Smith....'. Who? Who has created the Smith? The Architect, of course.

Akshat Gupta wrote:

I believe that the Architect balanced the equation and hence created Smith. However, I do not believe it was his choice to do so or not. It was inevitable and the Architect couldn't do anything to stop it. It is because of the rules of the system.

Yes that pretty much comes close to my thought. He doesn't like to create Smith this way, but he has no choice. It is needed equation-wise.

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Also that number plate of Smith's car says `Behold, I have created the Smith....'. Who? Who has created the Smith? The Architect, of course.

Hmmm didn't know that yet.
Nice addition

For anyone else who may have missed it:

The car that brings Smith to the rebels' meeting bears this license plate.

Isaiah 54:16 -

"It is I who created the smith
To fan the charcoal fire
And produce the tools for his work;
So it is I who create
The instruments of havoc"

(- Taken from the Jewish Publication Society's New Translation of the Holy Scriptures According to the Traditional Hebrew Text (1985); so it's the most accurate and direct translation I know of. If you want the KJV, biblegateway.org...; from that page, you can view other translations, as well.)

Akshat or Mobil,

I'm trying to come to an understanding of what you're saying and am stuck at the following roadblock. Are you guys saying that Smith was created as the anti-One before or after Neo "jumped" into him? After would make more sense because there can't be an Anti-One until the One is discovered. If that's true, does that mean the anti-One is in every version or just in this version?

Smith would have to be created after Neo jumped into him by the rules of the Matrix, but as our heros(especially Neo) have demonstrated, the rules can be broken. Morpheus was right.

Akshat Gupta wrote:

I believe that the Architect balanced the equation and hence created Smith. However, I do not believe it was his choice to do so or not. It was inevitable and the Architect couldn't do anything to stop it. It is because of the rules of the system.

I third this... The Architect simply created the equation... Both Neo and Smith became the variables by their own actions.

Yes, but if Fate is real, then it's not there own actions. Also, the Oracle couldn't see the truth if it's thier own actions, surely.

"Are you guys saying that Smith was created as the anti-One before or after Neo "jumped" into him? After would make more sense because there can't be an Anti-One until the One is discovered. If that's true, does that mean the anti-One is in every version or just in this version?" - GPieters


In my opinion, Smith became the Anti-One after Neo killed him. Just as Neo became the One after Smith killed him. I think the possibility may have existed in other versions of the Matrix for there to be an Anti-One, but only in this version did it actually happen like this.[/quote]

It was The Oracle who created Smith. That's why Smith calls her "Mom" in Revolutions. The whole "Smith calls The Oracle mom because she is the mother of The Matrix" doesn't suit me, and is pretty conformist. It's a more personal remark.

I'll have to disagree with you on that one Oscar. The Oracle would be balancing and not unbalancing if she created Smith. I am certain she did not do that.

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I'm trying to come to an understanding of what you're saying and am stuck at the following roadblock. Are you guys saying that Smith was created as the anti-One before or after Neo "jumped" into him? After would make more sense because there can't be an Anti-One until the One is discovered. If that's true, does that mean the anti-One is in every version or just in this version?

Smith did indeed become the anti-One after Neo jumped into him. But the system (not the Architect or the Oracle); the system unconsciously knew that it would have to balance out so thats why Agent Smith has already begun to feel hatred and disgust for the human race.

Mobil and I both believe that there were previous anti-Ones. The details of both our theories are a bit different. Some others like Grendy do not believe that. I am not sure about Oscar's position on this.

Technically Neo's doing made Smith the anti-One. But every action which occurs in the Matrix is either an act of balancing or unbalancing. If it is balancing, then it is overseen by the Architect. So therefore this act of Neo's which created Smith as the anti-One was overseen as a balancing act by the Architect. Does that make sense?

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Smith would have to be created after Neo jumped into him by the rules of the Matrix, but as our heros(especially Neo) have demonstrated, the rules can be broken. Morpheus was right.

That makes no sense. Morpheus was talking about the rebels' ability to bend the rules of the Matrix. What we are talking about is different.

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Yes, but if Fate is real, then it's not there own actions. Also, the Oracle couldn't see the truth if it's thier own actions, surely.

Again you are getting confused. The way the Oracle `knows the future' is because she can see the equations that govern the Matrix and can see their outcomes. Most of these equations are simple and therefore she can see what will happen in the future. However, some things she cannot see because there are `too many factors, too many choices' and she simply cannot see past them. But, she believed.

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In my opinion, Smith became the Anti-One after Neo killed him. Just as Neo became the One after Smith killed him.

Not really. Neo was always destined to be the One. There was no other One. His full One-ness was just trigerred after being killed by Smith and after being kissed by Trinity. Similarly, Smith was always destined to be the anti-One. But this only got trigerred after Neo jumped into him.

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Quote: In my opinion, Smith became the Anti-One after Neo killed him. Just as Neo became the One after Smith killed him. Not really. Neo was always destined to be the One. There was no other One. His full One-ness was just trigerred after being killed by Smith and after being kissed by Trinity. Similarly, Smith was always destined to be the anti-One. But this only got trigerred after Neo jumped into him.

OK, you just agreed exactly with what I was saying. Just worded differently. Guess I should explain more thoroughly what I mean in my posts from now on.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Wachowski Brothers got inspired by the chapter "The Remainder" in the Simulacra and Simulation book, which describes the sort of remainder of the equation that abides in all phenomena, a sort of reality's shadow-side which can never be exactly determined or quantified. (Something like when determining the next term in a Taylor series for determining the value of pi "digitally": it doesn't matter how many terms you generate in the approximation, you'll always get a remainder which can only be roughly approximated).

This book is cloaked in very philosophical descriptions, so I'm probably missing at least one point of this chapter.

But there are some ideas I think I get: the Shadow of a body is not only the anti of the body, it's also the mirror of the body: Smith is sort of the "sinful" side of Neo, the virus nature of Neo. Didn't the Oracle say of Smith "He is you!" when talking to Neo?

But the author (Jean Baudrillard) in the above mentioned chapter goes on describing today's society in a very similar context as the Architect and Oracle set up in the films: Our society is trying to balance the equation so as to keep the world from the brink of catastrophe. Our society tries to capture its shadowy and sinful side ad infinitum to the point that there has arrised a lopsided emphasis on the shadows of the normal, on anti-culture instead of normal culture. He is predicting the next step will be where we have lost track of what is normal and not normal.

Unfortunately, I loose track of the author's thoughts too, but he ends the chapter in a way very similar to that of Revolutions: the building up of a super climax that then suddenly ends up in peace! Quote:

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One must push at the insane comsumption of energy in order to exterminate its concept. One must push at maximal repression in order to exterminate its concept. Once the last liter of energy has been consumed (by the last ecologist), once the last indigenous person has been analyzed (by the last ethnologist), once the ultimate commodity has been produced by the last "work force," then one will realize that this gigantic spiral of energy and production, of repression and the unconscious, thanks to which one has managed to enclose everything in an entropic and catastrophic equation, that all this is in effect nothing but a metaphysics of the remainder, and it will suddenly be resolved in all its effects.

The description of the the anti as a mirror could have inspired the scene of Neo looking out the window over the night city (in Reloaded), and you see Neo's mirror image in the window glass, maybe symbolizing how Neo's mirror image (Smith) was right then at that moment spreading over the whole city Neo was looking down upon. Neo must have then reflected upon how this destructive side of his nature could be amended for.

Just a few philosophical crumbs...

Of course they did. The Matrix Movies were deeply inspired in this book. As a matter of fact, the book actually appears in "The Matrix". The book Neo opens at the beginning to take out the concealed disc he sold to Choi is "Simulacra and Simulation".

Interesting. I really am confused though. Only seen Reloaded once. Stupid mum won't buy me it..

Akshat,

Thanks for the response. Since you and Mobil are under the stipulation that the anti-One has appeared in every version, I have another question for you. What exactly is Smith referring to when he says:

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Smith: That was expected. Smith Clone: Yes. Smith: It's happening exactly as before. Smith Clone: Well, not exactly.

All of this time I've thought he was speaking about the anti-One, but I'm not so sure anymore. Do you think he's speaking about Neo's confrontation w/the Agents? Perhaps he's commenting on the return of the anti-One and suggesting that the anti-One hasn't been able to copy itself before. That would make sense considering that Neo seems to be the most powerful One up to this point. What do you (all) think?

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OK, you just agreed exactly with what I was saying. Just worded differently. Guess I should explain more thoroughly what I mean in my posts from now on.

Ya we just got screwed in wording. Glad we agree though.

Code_Morgana- you must definitely watch Reloaded again. Im sure you have a few questions on a few specifics on it. Like the Persephone part and maybe the Keymaker part. If you make a new thread in the `Ask your questions here' forum with some of your Reloaded questions, I would love to guide you to understanding it further.

zynxamek- Good stuff on that. I must definitely read that book.

GPieters- I think that Smith was referring to the fact that Neo is beating up the agents pretty badly just like before. But now that Smith is here....that wont last for long.

Yeah, that makes sense. Thanks.

Oh yeah, you should definately read "Simulacra and Simulation." It's a little thick and wordy in parts, but overall it's a pretty facinating book.

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Ya we just got screwed in wording. Glad we agree though.

Same here.

zynxamek wrote:

The description of the the anti as a mirror could have inspired the scene of Neo looking out the window over the night city (in Reloaded), and you see Neo's mirror image in the window glass, maybe symbolizing how Neo's mirror image (Smith) was right then at that moment spreading over the whole city Neo was looking down upon. Neo must have then reflected upon how this destructive side of his nature could be amended for. Just a few philosophical crumbs...

This is VERY interesting, in that Smith says; "During the process, some part of you must have overwritten onto me." He then goes on to say, he knew the rules but felt compelled to disobey. Another thing I would like to add, however I don't know if it really belongs here. If Neo did not have Trinity, this destructive part of his nature would be more evident in him. He would no longer be the hero.

Yes, and Baudrillard's book was also one of the three that Keanu was asked to read by the Wachowski's 'before I even read the script.'

I'm trying to read it currently. I say 'trying,' because it's really quite a difficult read.... I consider myself to be ...pretty smart, and I think I have a fair-to-middlin' vocabulary; but in reading Simulacra and Simulation, I feel it necessary to keep my dictionary handy! In short, this is heavy shit.

It probably doesn't help that I'm also reading 1984, The Dialogues of Plato, and Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, concurrently.

I'm really enjoying reading this thread; but I'm afraid I don't have much to add... I am still confused about Smith (and the other Agents) and his so-called destruction....

I know that some theories have been advanced here, but I remain unconvinced on all fronts. My problem, I think, lies in how the Agents are killed/destroyed/deleted. For example:

Agents Smith and Jones get 'killed' in M1, but they immediately 'move in to software still hardwired to the system' i.e., other humans. (I can't remember if Brown does this too, or not, but it doesn't matter; I assume he does whether it's shown onscreen or not.) In Reloaded, however, Neo defeats Agents Johnson, Jackson and Thompson, with relative ease, and they do not leave the bodies! They just get knocked out, or something. And yet, we know they weren't 'killed,' or destroyed, or whatever, because all three of them show up again on the freeway.

Furthermore, Neo's dive into Agent Smith's belly causes Smith to explode, which visibly freaks out Agents Brown and Jones. We assume that this 'destroys' Smith, as Smith states explicitly in Reloaded. So, what happened to the 'human' body Smith was inhabiting in the matrix at that time? Did Neo take over that body? I guess that might explain how Smith learns to do it. But how, and why, if that is in fact what Neo does? And if it is, I doubt Neo himself even realized that that was what he did, since he doesn't know 'what Smith was doing to him' in Reloaded.

I think that Neo's belly flop has something, if not everything, to do with Smith's becoming the so-called 'anti-One.' And I don't mean just the 'something overwritten or copied' bit. I mean that I think that was the first time that happened; I can't see how there was an anti-One in every reload of the matrix so far... Smith is the first. There's no evidence to suggest otherwise.

Whaddya know...? I had something to add after all.

I have an English co-worker, who recognized Simulacra & Simulation (we take the same bus to work) and said he read and wrote a composition on the book as a free choice study at the end of his literature course in England. He said that philosophical French books translated to English tend to be pretty unintelligible, since the translator tries to capture as much of the original French as possible, but still only captures half of it! The English guy also said that he could easily visualize Baudrillard, drinking glasses of wine in a café in Paris, scribbling down his willy-nilly thoughts, then after a few weeks go to the publisher and publish the stuff! LOL Remind you, it is an English man who said that!....

So I began to "read between the lines" instead, which helped me at least grasp the main trains of thoughts, which more or less run through the whole book but seen from various angles and phenomena. So understanding one chapter a little better helped the understanding of another chapter a little better, and so on. So rereading the chapters a second (or even a third) time expanded my apprehension greatly, at least for me. It also helped to look up background info on some of the particular phenomena he illustrates, like "May 68" happenings in Paris, Centre Pompidou (Beaubourg), and the film Apocalypse Now. But sometimes, like the last chapter "On Nihilism", which is shown in M1 when Neo opens the book, is almost totally unintelligible, until I read this illuminating article from virginia.edu: jefferson.village.virginia.edu....

One thing is amazing though when reading the book: that tantalizing Matrix feeling often rushes through the head and body when reading Baudrillard. That's the reward of tackling and grappling with the book!

yea now everything is confusing....

so what your saying is that: smith's uber power is a result of the equation balancing out

correct?

as the merovingian said: Do you know? No. As i expected, but it is always best to ask...

and someone explain to me : how does simularca and simulation tie in to smith's origin