»American "atrocities"«

much has been made in the news lately of the so called "torturing" of iraqi prisoners at the hands of american soldiers

well one thing should be made clear

to call them atrocities is an insult to people who have really suffered at the hands of maniacs

if you squemish then i suggest you dont click the following link...it contains the footage of the american being executed at the hands of truly evil people
and puts into perspective the idiocy of our press

ogrish.com...

whether or not this is a form of revenge for the pictures of abuse is arguable and will no doubt be highly debated over the next few days.

but this is an "illustration" of what these people have done to others,including their own people in iraq...and everyone must agree that it is right to fight against such disgusting terrorists

again i warn you...only click the link and download the footage if you do not get offended by graphic violence and wish to see what really goes on in the world

if this post causes me to get thrown off the board then so be it...but i will not apologise for showing people who think that our soldiers are evil sadists,the true meaning of evil

thanks for listening

the anomaly

So are you saying that American soldiers torturing Iraqi soldiers is okay?...

....sorry but I didn't get where you are going with this

....Man that footage was disturbing

i think i'm a bit divided on this issue..

the first thing i'd have to say though.. is toturing Iraqi prisoners, or any prisoners anywhere, is NOT right..

although the war was originally argued on the issue of weapons of mass DISTRACTION.. once this was exposed as bullshit, the US quietly tried to shift the focus onto the issue of freeing the Iraqi people from the cruel tryanny of Saddam. now don't get me wrong.. Saddam was an evil fucker, who undoubtedly did much worse in his time.. but that doesn't make the actions of our troops excusable... you can't say "well what the other guy did was much worse, so this is ok".

HOWEVER, i think some of the coverage on the issue has been unfair.. and also very damaging.. obviously the entire middle east doesn't trust america as it is.. and this hasn't helped.. i would like to point out though that it is somewhat unfair for them to make a big fuss about this, when torture and degrading treatment such as this and WORSE are actually common practice within their own countries.. although again, this doesn't make our actions acceptable.

Pawnatron wrote:

So are you saying that American soldiers torturing Iraqi soldiers is okay?... ....sorry but I didn't get where you are going with this ....Man that footage was disturbing

no...its certainly not right what these people did to the iraqis...its a disgrace to ALL the coalition nations and its against the geneva convention

what i object to is the actions of the american troops being refered to as "atrocities"

this is completely out of context with real atrocities such as the holocaust and the cambodian killing fields and yes...with what saddams regime did also(at least 300,000 dead)

Ah...I see, I didn' know they were called "atrocities", I don't even know what that word means *looks it up in a dictionary*

Quote:

An appalling or atrocious act, situation, or object, especially an act of unusual or illegal cruelty inflicted by an armed force on civilians or prisoners

Hmmm....and isn't this exacly what the American and British soldiers were doing?

I can see this is something you feel strongly about, but all I see is a lot of subjective oppinions and juggling of symanitics.

the anomaly wrote:

... so called "torturing" of iraqi prisoners at the hands of american soldiers...

Why "So called"?

the anomaly wrote:

...to call them atrocities is an insult to people who have really suffered at the hands of maniacs

Are you suggesting these people did not suffer or that American Troops can't be maniacs?

the anomaly wrote:

...being executed at the hands of truly evil people...

It's all a matter of perspective, i would imagine the Iraqi prisoners thought the US troops were "truly evil"

the anomaly wrote:

...and everyone must agree that it is right to fight against such disgusting terrorists

Which Terrorists?
Looks like more of that media confusion working again.

Someone needs to clarify who we're fighting here. The War in Iraq and the War on Terror are two seperate things, but they keep getting lumped together to keep the public salivating.

In WWII, people of France who fought the German Occupation were called "the resistance" or "Freedom Fighters". Today, Iraqi people who fight the US Occupation are being called "terrorists". It's just not right.

the anomaly wrote:

...but i will not apologise for showing people who think that our soldiers are evil sadists,the true meaning of evil

Showing something (subjectively) More Evil, does not negate the evil in the (subjectively) lesser Evil deed.

which terrorist you ask...well...that would be one of osama bin ladens top men that is taking responsibility for the death of the american...so he would be classed as a terrorist

and do you two seriously believe that puting a dog lead on a man and cutting a mans throat with a survival knife and then cutting his entire head off while chanting "god is great" are one and the same

if you read what i said above correctly then you will see that i dont condone it in the slightest

but the fact is that people seem to be either making the 2 things out to be equal acts of cruelty and barbarism and some news stations use terminology that makes what the americans are doing out to be WORSE than what that piece of footage shows

its utter lunacy...

i find it simply staggering that you compare the american troops in iraq to the German occupation of europe

70,000,000 people died fighting the nazi regime...11million of those were systematically executed in the death camps...where the germans starved people to death,performed operations without anesthetic,skinned people alive,ripped teeth out of living conscious people,shot them in front of their children,and of course gassed then and burned their corpses in ovens and massive funeral pires

but my friends who fight for the army are no different in your eyes are they

despite the fact that many of them give up large portions of their wages to help feed and cloth iraqi children...despite them having watched their friend have an RPG rip through his chest right in front of their eyes...despite having had to shoot children who were forced by terrorists operating in iraq to run up to them with grenades in their hands and smiles on their faces because if they didnt their families would be murdered

but all our media can bleat about is how bad OUR OWN troops are while completely ignoring what some iraqis are doing to them

lets think back to 4 weeks ago when a truck with 4 american workers was blown up and video footage was released showing their limbless chared corpses being paraded through the streets and then hung up to rot from a bridge....didnt get alot of publicity about that did we

the media are not interested in the propaganda of war...they are interested in their own political agenda...despite the cost of what pursuing that agenda may be

why are people so against the war in the west now

because people in the west are all about "ME ME ME".if it doesnt benefit "me" then i aint interested...

people are also to interested in the quick fix...everyone has been conditioned to believe that everything is fixable in no time...but wars dont work that way....and terrorists dont care if you want to bury your head in the sand and ignore what they do...they will gladly carry on murdering people with or without an excuse...shown by the fact that the same number of people have died in terrorist attacks since september 11th as there were ON september 11th

daniel pearl should have shown us that...an american killed in the similar manner(i have seen his execution too)long before "revenge" for "torturing"
was in the frame

and we mention torturing...lets not forget what saddams regime did to people in the same prison where these incidents took place...they were FAR worse than the american incidents...including 2000 people killed in a single day...but do our papers print that for you to get upset about?...no...because it doesnt fit their agenda

open your eyes to your own press people...they are simply a bunch of liars as much as your government...although its your press that govern public opinion...and if that means turning you against your own soldiers then god help us...cause we will never win this war without them

What makes this worse then the footage is because nobody was expecting American soldiers to do this. It's like people are just getting used to Iraqi soldiers torturing people but when American and British soldiers do it people are shocked.

and i understand that you do not support the actions of the American soldiers Anomaly but I don't know why your are picking up the glove for the soldiers that did this. I have 0% sympathy for these people

Pawnatron wrote:

What makes this worse then the footage is because nobody was expecting American soldiers to do this. It's like people are just getting used to Iraqi soldiers torturing people but when American and British soldiers do it people are shocked. and i understand that you do not support the actions of the American soldiers Anomaly but I don't know why your are picking up the glove for the soldiers that did this. I have 0% sympathy for these people

whos defending them?...i already said that what they done is deplorable...but to put it in the same classification as what happened in that video link above is just wrong and you know it

Quote:

whos defending them?...i already said that what they done is deplorable

Ok sorry...I thought you were defending them....

Quote:

but to put it in the same classification as what happened in that video link above is just wrong and you know it

what is the big difference? too me this is just the same. What makes the be-heading any worse then what the American soildiers did? By doing this the American soldier (that were involved, not all of them) lowered them to the same stage as the Iraqi soldiers. Too me they are just the same. The Iraqi Soldiers did it for Allah or freedom or what ever and the American soldiers did it because of pride extream paitriotism....or thats how I see it.

so what would you prefer if given the choice

to be forced to wear a dog lead and parade around naked(for all i know you might enjoy that...well...some people do)

or have your throat cut and your head chopped of while people are screaming at you "god is great" while you scream and gurgle in pure agony until you die?

well...the choice is yours

that was not the only thing the American soldiers did. They also striped the prisoners down to humiliate then and they beat one to death. I am not saying that putting a leash on a guy and be-heading one is the same, but thats not the only thing the American soldiers did.

Both incidents involve murder so i see no difference. If anything then the American soldiers were worse. Also the had this guy stand on a bucket with some wires attached to him and if he would lean off he would get an electric shock.

Quote:

so what would you prefer if given the choice to be forced to wear a dog lead and parade around naked(for all i know you might enjoy that...well...some people do)

I would prefer the leash. But to choose from the same treatment that the American soldiers gave there prisoners and the treatment that the Iraqi soldiers gave to there prisoner. I would choose the Iraqi[/quote]

Anomaly u dont get it, those 2 things are not the same BUT for coalition soldiers to do what they did is unforgivable! I mean for troops representing the western "free" and "democratic" nations its unthinkable to COMMIT WAR CRIMES and thats what they did mate...u cant torture and humiliate unarmed pows!

Pawnatron,

There is no comparison between the two. While what the American soldiers did is deplorable and absolutely warrants court-marshalling (is that a word?) there is no way you can say they are the same. There is a large difference between humiliating someone and killing someone.

I know! I do realize that murder and himiliation is not the same but the American soldiers didn't only humiliate the prisoners they did killed one.

...Where do you guys live? Because this is all over the media here in Iceland. They beat one guy to death. So this is still just the same.

All I'm going to say is this -

"YOU LIVE BY THE SWORD, YOU DIE BY THE SWORD"

"YOU PLAY WITH FIRE, YOU'RE GOING TO GET BURNED"

I knew that after those DISGUSTING pictures were flashed all over the world, that some poor American innocent or some British innocent was going to get murdered...
What the hell do you expect?

The West is supposed to lead by example.... I am ashamed to call myself British....

I wept when I heard about the poor civilian who was beheaded... My condolences to his family and friends

"live by the sword and die by the sword"

mr berg was a worker not a soldier

daniel pearl was a journalist not a soldier

the iraqis have also murdered aid workers there to help the iraqi people

i dont see how any of them "lived by the sword"

where as many of iraqis in the prison were caught taking up arms against the american(although given...some were innocent)

as for being ashamed of being British...i will never be ashamed of being British...i may be ashamed of our figure head but i will certainly never be ashamed of my country...

I know that Anomaly - unfortunately in this wonderful world in which we have to live, people get tarred with the same brush...
It doesn't matter what you have done or not done.... It all boils down either to the colour of your skin or your beliefs..

Here's to the wonderful world in which we live...and the wonderful people that inhabit it... I wouldn't want to come back to this hell-hole of a planet if I had another chance... Human Beings...Pfft

John Mirra wrote:

Anomaly u dont get it, those 2 things are not the same BUT for coalition soldiers to do what they did is unforgivable! I mean for troops representing the western "free" and "democratic" nations its unthinkable to COMMIT WAR CRIMES and thats what they did mate...u cant torture and humiliate unarmed pows!

oh right...but you CAN slit the throats of innocent aid workers...and burn contract workers mutilated corpses and hang them from a bridge...and shoot italians in the head on video...and bomb your own people while they celebrate their holy day(lets go bomb a church during Christmas mass...thats not as bad as what the americans did...or at least it is by you lots logic)

so expectation completely makes up for action does it?

let the terrorists blow people up...its expected...but when WE piss on a prisoner and make him stand on a box with 2(perhaps not even live)wires...we all make a big fuss...cause its not expected...

WELL ITS CALLED WAR...

on the flip side of course..we hear very little news about the afghans who were taken to guantanamo bay and taught how to read and write and speak english and have since been released and apologised to and now are making a valuable contribution to their villages in afghanistan and are now able to support their families through their new skill and education

and why do we hear very little about it...because its a success story from a place where the western press like to peddle scare stories in order to strike petty blows to a government they have never liked(even before sept 11th)

Pawnatron wrote:

If anything then the American soldiers were worse.

that disgusts me and for that comment alone you should be shot

i notice that the above link is no longer

so here you go for those who havent seen it



goregasm.com...

Another Smith wrote:

I wouldn't want to come back to this hell-hole of a planet if I had another chance... Human Beings...Pfft

and so say all of us...well...me anyway

the anomaly wrote:

Pawnatron wrote: If anything then the American soldiers were worse. that disgusts me and for that comment alone you should be shot

WHAT! How can you say that...is that a joke....''for that you should be shot'' Wow....I bet the American soldiers thought just the same. Please tell that is a joke cause thats not even funny....that is sick.

''For not agreeing with me you should be shot'' Is that what you are saying?

That link is not available - I got a message saying; no data available.

Pawnatron wrote:

the anomaly wrote: Pawnatron wrote: If anything then the American soldiers were worse. that disgusts me and for that comment alone you should be shot WHAT! How can you say that...is that a joke....''for that you should be shot'' Wow....I bet the American soldiers thought just the same. Please tell that is a joke cause thats not even funny....that is sick. ''For not agreeing with me you should be shot'' Is that what you are saying?

no its not a joke

that kind of opinion is just plain wrong...the pictures of the iraqis being tortured ARE disgusting...but to say that they are worse than the footage is not right

you must have a seriously warped sense of justice and morallity to even contemplate what you posted

its got nothing to do with agreeing with me or not...

your opinion is just wrong

besides...the iraqis that were tortured and killed can at least expect justice to be served against those who carried out the acts of violence toward them

can the same be said for nicholas berg?