»American "atrocities"«

(i) Unfounded - most definitely. If there was any possibility of it, the liberals in this country would have had a hay-day searching for evidence of it. However, it is quite a ridiculously unfounded accusation.

(ii) "Stop using the term communism as a rabble rousing term."

Stop labelling me as some McCarthyist. I doubt you even understand the problems with a communal form of government.

"If you don't think the government has a duty to protect those who are in poverty then shame on you."

"My freedom is more important than your great idea." The government needs to take its hands off economic issues. Capitalism has been proven to provide the greatest good to the greatest number of people. Handing out money to those in need is most certainly NOT the duty of government, especially not the federal government. The government is there to "establish Justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense..." I'm sure you know the rest.

(iii) Contrary to the ridiculous notions you people recieve from Enviro-Nazi organizations out to push their big-government programs on you, the Environment is fine. As if we could ever think to address problems as vague as "global warming" anyway. I suggest reading The Skeptical Environmentalist.

(iv) "If dethoning tyrants is so important then why has Bush ignored Saudi Arabia?" Yah, already addressed that buddy.

(v) "Why would I have loathing for Bush? I didn't have loathing for Clinton!"

What do you know? I guess it has nothing to do with the fact that Clinton was a heart-warming liberal.

knnknn wrote:

They do it with "welfare", "income tax" or "military expenses/wars"

I am for the abolition of the first two. And I don't see how exactly you mean to connect military expenses with stealing from the rich to give to the poor.

The ONE-der Man wrote:

i'd like to point out that the anomaly has at least not condoned what our troops have done...mirra i haven't heard you say one damn thing about what the iraqi's did...too busy playing devils advicate i suppose...or you agree with them..which is it my friend? commenting on your first paragraph there...the "UN peace treaty" worked real well...so did the sanctions....thats why everyone waited 10 damn years to do anything right? if we hadnt done anything, it'd go on for another 10 years... the usa's motives for going to war may not have been good, but it's intentions sure were. trying to do a good thing freeing people from a horrible dictator...war is never a good option, no one wants war, but we support it if it hopefully makes the world better in the foreseeable future... hopefully the UN will intervene once power is handed over... [/b]

So tell me what excactly did the iraqi people do? They are puppets on a string forced to do what theit terrorist masters tell them to...U cant blame them for anything, if anything they are the only victims of the war forced upon them...I have nothing to agree on, that war does not concern me at all, thats why i can be objective as opposed to you...

UN had a peace plan which was interrupted by the US and their british sidekick but hell thats a whole different story...Why was the US so quick to go to war? why couldnt they wait for a few more months, they had a deadline? for what, ask yourself...Pentagon is the most powerful corporation in the world, they can create war wherever and whenever they please...

hahah tell me hows the world better for iraqi people at this point? I can tell you that its only worse...First they had only one master and they could probably adapt to that no matter how bad it was, and now they have 2 chefs in the same kitchen...think about that

As for your "i hate politics attitude" i can only say that u should grow up...

mirra out

I viewed the awful truth this morning... I watched the beheading of the poor construction worker...

I'm so glad I did, and in a way I wish I hadn't... I can't get the image out of my head...

It was not what I expected at all, it was far, far worse... I have never seen anything so BARBARIC, EVIL & DISPICABLE in my WHOLE life.

The photographs of the USA troops they are a bloody walk in the park compared to the brutality of the video that I have just witnessed.
I sat and sobbed my heart out.... These Islamic fundamentalists need wiping off the face of the Earth...the sooner the better
they are EVIL, BRUTAL, BARBARIC FUCKING BASTARDS...My attitude towards the War has changed in one viewing of the callous murder of this poor individual....
HOW COULD THEY DO SUCH A THING?
My first post in this thread, please disregard what I said... I had not viewed the film, I really did not know what I was talking about...
I CERTAINLY DO NOW.

This film should be broadcast to the general public..then they will see and understand...because I sure as hell understand now...

Another Smith,

I can sum up my thoughts on your post by quoting a good friend in these parts...

Bingo.

I haven't managed to eat today, I'm still reeling from the viewing of the video...

However, for anyone that has not seen the video and wishes to view Human nature at its most barbaric, I will send the file as an email attachment.

Now I do want to warn you...it is truly awful, the worse thing I have ever been a witness to.
However, I feel it has to be seen, to get things into perspective... I was quite 'soft' regarding the war.... no more...No bloody more...

If you want the file to view, please PM me and we can sort it out ...

HOW DARE ANYONE COME ON THESE BOARDS AND COMPLAIN ABOUT THE TREATMENT OF THESE MONSTERS, IN A FEW PHOTOGRAPHS....HOW DARE YOU...YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES

How many people committed the atrocity? You can't blame all the people in the country for it. You can't even blame all the islamic fundamentalists for it.

This was the point about american soldiers pics wasn't it? Even if some american soldiers did it, that doesn't mean that it is a common thing - and you have to take into account what kinds of people they are having to deal with each day.

Just to remind people of what I said earlier in the thread:

Fatpie42 wrote:

The point is that these American soldiers are shot at EVERY day and when they catch one they are not going to be particularly pleased with that prisoner. It seems perfectly natural (even if not technically ethical) to take revenge on their dead comrades and kick the sh*t out of the f**ker! (pardon my french)

Well said Fatpie regarding your comments regarding the US troops - but -

Quote:

How many people committed the atrocity? You can't blame all the people in the country for it. You can't even blame all the islamic fundamentalists for it

.

Can't I ? - Oh yes I can, because all those Islamic fundamentalist monsters have the same ideas, the same barbaric mind-set. I'm not going to apologise for my attitude, I've just experienced the BIGGEST WAKE-UP CALL OF MY LIFE-TIME... I'm so glad I have...no more blinkers for me...

Have you watched the slaughter? You can't really make a judgement until you have witnessed it I'm afraid...

American Atrocities ? What a few pictures of humiliation - BIG FUCKING DEAL.

THIS WAS MY FIRST POST REGARDING THIS MATTER - BEFORE I WITNESSED THE VIDEO -

Quote:

All I'm going to say is this - "YOU LIVE BY THE SWORD, YOU DIE BY THE SWORD" "YOU PLAY WITH FIRE, YOU'RE GOING TO GET BURNED" I knew that after those DISGUSTING pictures were flashed all over the world, that some poor American innocent or some British innocent was going to get murdered... What the hell do you expect? The West is supposed to lead by example.... I am ashamed to call myself British.... I wept when I heard about the poor civilian who was beheaded... My condolences to his family and friends

THIS IS A LOAD OF ABSOLUTE CRAP - AND I WISH I'D NEVER POSTED IT....

Now I have seen the reality.... You want to see the reality of these monsters let me know.

Another Smith wrote:

These Islamic fundamentalists need wiping off the face of the Earth...the sooner the better they are EVIL, BRUTAL, BARBARIC FUCKING BASTARDS

And so the cycle of hate continues.

Another Smith wrote:

HOW DARE ANYONE COME ON THESE BOARDS AND COMPLAIN ABOUT THE TREATMENT OF THESE MONSTERS, IN A FEW PHOTOGRAPHS....HOW DARE YOU...YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES

That's just plain wrong. I hope it's the emotion making you say such things.

Marl64 wrote -

Quote:

That's just plain wrong. I hope it's the emotion making you say such things

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't....

I know I'm very, very upset at what I've witnessed.

Perhaps I shouldn't say anymore....

Fatpie42 wrote:

(i) He fixed the elections to get into power and thus is NOT an elected president. (ii) He gives huge tax breaks and support to the rich while the poor have to get two jobs to break even. (iii) Like presidents before him, he continues to ignore limits (which most, if not all, countries in Europe employ) on oil-consumption and clean air standards. (iv) He is a war monger. Most people in Europe were afraid he was going to cause trouble with China. God only knows what the consequences of that would have been! (v) Despite claiming to care about 9/11 he completely ignores Saudi Arabian involvement. Why? Because they have the best relationship with the oil trade in Saudi Arabia. What did he do instead? Invade Iraq. (vi) His voice pisses me off and (as he himself claims) his favourite book is "hungry hungry caterpillar" (a book not released until after he left college). Don't expect me to care what your replies to this are. You asked for it and I gave it to you.

ill have a go at this as well shall i?

1)and so say all of...well...michael moore and we know how much he tells the truth and how he is such an unbiased political commentator

2)the tax breaks to companies have allowed them to expand more quickly and create the recovery from high unemployment

3)dont like the fact that america threw out the kyoto treaty...apparently if you drive around in parts of LA with a british emmission law engine,the air your car pumps out will be cleaner than the air it took in...so that is a valid point

4)i dont know of anyone in europe that was afraid bush was going to attack china...in fact china are very pleased with their march towards capatalism through the introduction of western buisness interests

5)mmmm

Another Smith wrote:

I haven't managed to eat today, I'm still reeling from the viewing of the video... However, for anyone that has not seen the video and wishes to view Human nature at its most barbaric, I will send the file as an email attachment. Now I do want to warn you...it is truly awful, the worse thing I have ever been a witness to. However, I feel it has to be seen, to get things into perspective... I was quite 'soft' regarding the war.... no more...No bloody more... If you want the file to view, please PM me and we can sort it out ... HOW DARE ANYONE COME ON THESE BOARDS AND COMPLAIN ABOUT THE TREATMENT OF THESE MONSTERS, IN A FEW PHOTOGRAPHS....HOW DARE YOU...YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES

ive seen alot worse...and shock if it was islamic fundamentalists that did those as well

the "unknown russian soldier" clip is the same treatment but far clearer and close up.the knife going into the side of his throat first and then cutting out the front...he is then left struggling to breath until his executioners get bored and cut the rest of his head off

the daniel perle clip was also terrible...forced to condemn his own country and also had his throat slit

another clip from chechnya where a soldier who has had his legs broken so he cant run away is then shot in the shoulder to stop him from struggling and then has his head cut off with a bayonet blade

the thing that really gets to me in the nick berg clip is his screams of pain followed by the gurgling...it chills me to the bone

knnknn wrote:

Quote: It is not the job of the government to steal from the rich and give to the poor; that is communism. It is the hidden maxime of governments to do exactly this: Take someone's money and give it to the poor. They do it with "welfare", "income tax" or "military expenses/wars".

very true.

Another Smith wrote:

I know I'm very, very upset at what I've witnessed.

That much is clear.

The two main concerns I've seen over the availability of these clips are;

1) The effect seeing them could have on children - certainly justified.
and
2) The hatred people feel on viewing these could lead to the emergence of the "Mob Mentality" and all the problems that brings.

That they produce such feeling in us is not a bad thing, you would have to be pretty cold not to feel something. It's what you do with those feelings that's important.

It's good to express them, tell people how angry it made you and how much you hate the people responsible, but at the same time try to keep in focus just who is responsible and try not to demonise an entire race or religion for the actions of a few.

Finally, if you are forced to change your viewpoint as a result of seeing something like this, at least question the change before accepting it.

Otherwise we're back to square one of this thread, using the grotesqueness of one atrocity to belittle actions within another.

None of these crimes are acceptable, no matter how minor one may seem in comparison to another.

{Ok that's my Rant over with}

Thankyou very much for helping me through this Mark.

I've taken note of what you have said.... THANKYOU

Why doesnt the us just take out Al-Sadr and his followers? they know where they are and they have the firepower...why the wait? wheres the delay? the more they wait the more innocents get hurt...

marl64 wrote:

but at the same time try to keep in focus just who is responsible and try not to demonise an entire race or religion for the actions of a few.

This statement would have more validity if the religion of the race didn't hold to doctrines which condone this type of behavior.

Where in Islamic scripture does it say "kill American peace keeping forces"? Islam preaches forgiveness just as Christianity does. Blaming these actions on the religion is like blaming the "Passion Of Christ" movie for violent actions outside the cinema.

Islam only resembles Christianity in that it is Christian heresy. It does not preach forgiveness, but the of the smiting of those who oppose Allah. Just read a snippet from the Q'uran, you'll see what I mean.

I was under the impression this beheading was done in retaliation to the Mirror photo's? And now it's been confirmed the photo's are fake! Any news on who faked them as they have a mans blood on their hands because of this sick deception!

no i don't think it was in response to the Daily Mirror's photos.. cuz there is still the issue of the allegations against the american troops.. and further allegations against british troops.. the beheading was in retaliation for bad treatment of islamic prisoners in general

stinkz wrote:

Islam only resembles Christianity in that it is Christian heresy. It does not preach forgiveness, but the of the smiting of those who oppose Allah. Just read a snippet from the Q'uran, you'll see what I mean.

I did read a snippet of the Qu'ran. It was talking about how God was forgiving and loving. In fact every part I have ever seen by just skimming through the Qu'ran has been about forgiveness and love.

How can it be Christian heresy when it is based around the revelations of Mohammed? Actually, don't answer that. This is a stupid debate.

Stinkz why do you have to be such an arsehole all the time? Believing in your own religion doesn't have to mean aiming horrible slander at the religions of others.

Fatpie42 wrote:

In fact every part I have ever seen by just skimming through the Qu'ran has been about forgiveness and love.

Well, you must have been very selectively reading.

Fatpie42 wrote:

How can it be Christian heresy when it is based around the revelations of Mohammed? Actually, don't answer that. This is a stupid debate.

Quite simple to understand really.

Fatpie42 wrote:

Stinkz why do you have to be such an arsehole all the time? Believing in your own religion doesn't have to mean aiming horrible slander at the religions of others.

I'm sorry, but, some religions are in need of rebuke, for they hold to immoralities and despicable actions. Islam is one of these.

stinkz wrote:

Islam only resembles Christianity in that it is Christian heresy.

You sound like the spanish inquisition (the way you call anything you don't like Heresy)

stinkz wrote:

I'm sorry, but, some religions are in need of rebuke, for they hold to immoralities and despicable actions. Islam is one of these.

Then I hereby rebuke Christianity for it's acts during the aforementioned Inquisition.

Or will you concede it could be a matter of interpretation?

stinkz wrote:

I'm sorry, but, some religions are in need of rebuke, for they hold to immoralities and despicable actions. Islam is one of these.

and so is any other religion you despise? i thought so.