»Downloading Music? Stealing, supporting or convenient!«

I noticed the strong argument about downloading music in the 'Gay Marriages or Not?' thread which ofcourse is completely off topic.
[ Starting here:

I think you need to make the distinction between downloading music (which could be from a source provided by or approved by the music industry) and obtaining music through napster like means.

We should also not limit it to Music, since the same reasoning applies to films, games etc.

With all that in mind, let me tell you a story - a short one honest.

Many years ago, I bought an Amiga. This was way back when 256K was a lot of memory. I was one of the first in he country to get one.

Software was scarce in the UK, but was the US had plenty.

I contacted the software companies to find when the games would be available over over here and was told "At present we feel the UK market is too small to justify a release - We have no plans to release in the UK for the forseeable future."

So I got hold of some dodgy copies instead

Was I stealing?

After showing the games to my friends, many of them bought Amigas, I of course GAVE them copies of the games.

They showed the games to their friends, etc. etc. and before long there were hundreds of people in my area with Amigas.

personally i only download stuff that isnt available on a hard format of some kind or available only online through the artists website

a lot of the people i listen to have masses of live stuff in kazaa etc that i cant buy anywhere (even online)

i feel deprived of the oppertunity to listen to stuff by my favourite artists when no other sources are available

as for films...i dont download films at all...although i do have contacts with which to get pirate films...i only use it when i want something that isnt out on dvd for ages and when it does come out on dvd i go buy the original anyway

what annoys me most though is that the industry moans about illegal downloading despite the fact that the artists who are downloaded most and the industry execs that moan about it are rich beyond comprehension

and they say it hurts the up and coming bands cause they cant afford to promote them...what crap...the amount spent promoting new music pales in insignificance to the amount these idiots like simon cowell make

they are moaning cause it hits thier pockets and thats the only reason

With that 100 000 dollars they lost, they could've bought an even crappier dress which could be made for 20 dollars or buy a gold emplated kettle. The complacent music companies and artists also seem to forgot what music is about. If I recall, Woodstock was completely free and one of the most memorable music events of last century. Then there are just pointlessly crap artists like Shannon Nole and Guy Sebastian who make millions of dollars even though they have horribly crap singing voices (Guys is throaty and Shannon sounds constepated) and they didn't even make it on their own, they went on a tv show (huge scam) which makes people start to think they "know" the competitors and get even more enthralled. Besides that, all the money they've made from just one single is more then most or any of us will make in our life times. Downloading their songs ( I'm pretty sure no one does, infact I want people to stop buying their cds and start downloading their songs to get rid of them) really just stops them from buying that extra goldplated house or the fridge that has the internet and cooks dinner, forcing them to just buy the internet one.

who cares...

you bring up a great point about the "pop idol" crap that infests the television

the basic premise is this

here is a bunch of talentless pricks that we rolled of the stereotypical pop icon production line just this morning

they will proceed to murder some of the most memorable songs ever written(and a hell of a lot of shit ones too)

you will then phone in on a premium rate line an infinite number of times which the money will then go into our(the fat cat music execs) pockets

the "winner" will then release 1 album almost entirely of aformentioned crap cover versions which you will buy on top of the 9 out of the ten songs on the album as sinlges too,puting you even more out of pocket

in approximately 1 year we will dump these talentless sheep on the scrap heap and role of next years model which will begin the cycle all over again

we will laugh at your gullible nature whi;e lining out big fat platinum pockets on our gold trousers encrusted with big fuck off diamonds while you borrow money from a loan shark to pay off your ridiculously high phone bill because you wanted "gay will" to win

the end

Personally I've bought 1000s of CDs over my lifetime and ruined most of them because I don't take care of them. I'm confident I've purchased at least one album from the artists I now download, and therefore paid them some royalites at some point in my life that justifies my downloading now of what my carelessness ruined.

And in the mean time, great bands are being forgotten and music taste is decreasing dramatically. Guy and Shannon making so much money is a catastrophy of the highest degree.

I used to buy music regularly - back when singles were less than a quid and albums were a fiver.

But then came CDs and their higher quality (and lower production costs) so they cranked up the price.

Why do DVDs still cost more than the video equivalent? they cost less to make. Why do CDs cost more than Tapes?

It's all about profit.

If something is good and fairly priced, I'll buy it. Otherwise I'm stickin' it to the man.

I still buy cds, but only if they're great and theres a 10 dollar (Australian Dollars) cd shop with everything, and it's near where I work so that's just dandy.

marl64 wrote:

If something is good and fairly priced, I'll buy it. Otherwise I'm stickin' it to the man.

That sums up my feelings on the entertainment industry as a whole. There ain't a job easier in the whole damn world than being an actor/musician.

Overpaid and underworked. They earn in one damn day more than you or I will earn in our lifetimes.

So why shouldn't we get something back for it?

hungarian kid wrote:

And in the mean time, great bands are being forgotten and music taste is decreasing dramatically. Guy and Shannon making so much money is a catastrophy of the highest degree.

my guess is these 2 are winners of a pop idol competition

if so...in this country its funny that the pop idol winners themselves make next to nothing

its the record compant bosses that take the cash...they give the naive contestants a contract which basically makes them monkeys...who get paid peanuts when compared with the artists who have taken control of their own contracts...

the best example i can think of in britain is s club 7 who were on the go for around 5 years and made approximately half a million each in that time while their company boss(simon cowell) made about 30 million from them

100,000 per year isnt much for a hugely famous and big selling pop act(despite them being shite)...they also did a tv show as well...they were exploited as are all the people who are produced from these shows

still

if you're gonna be talentless and stupid and not to mention lazy in the fact that you are looking for the easy route to fame as opposed to the real talented bands that go out gigging anf touring to earn their reputations

then you deserve all you get

...From GM thread in reply to matrix-explained.com...

stinkz wrote:

steal - To take (the property of another) without right or permission.

Hey can we all play the lookup game?

Steal - v. tr. - To take (the property of another) without right or permission.

Steal - v. intr. - To commit theft.

Theft - n - The act or an instance of stealing; larceny.

Note: To constitute theft there must be a taking without the owner's consent, and it must be unlawful or felonious; every part of the property stolen must be removed, however slightly, from its former position; and it must be, at least momentarily, in the complete possession of the thief. See Larceny, and the Note under Robbery.

dictionary.com...

I don't remove the files I download

It's hardly stealing, the music file just becomes of many files on your computer, and who said it's illegal to download binary, I mean thats all it is. You havn't physically gone out and stolen the album.

No talent pricks making millions so quickly, and then the up and coming struggeling, touring bands who barely make anything. One example is Rammstein, they used to all have shite arse jobs, he singer a basket weaver two others construction builders etc. But then they made music, they didn't have huge studios for mixing they just had Flake on the Keyboard. They are also one of the many bands actually worth going to their concerts because rather then just standing there awe struck, the light the singer on fire or shoot sparks out of their guitars. Another thing about them is that theyre all either in their mid or late 30's, Guy Sebastian and Shannon Nole are both in their early 20's and have both come from fairly moderately payed jobs anyway. One was a farmer and the other a Music Teacher. And if I do recall, teachers at the moment are demanding more money then they need when they already have great pay and long holidays. Farmers must pull in about 50-200 thousand a year, more then your average shmo. So everyone knows about the poor arse for excuse singer Guy Sebastian and Shannon Nole but the hardworking family providing, from rags to riches Rammstein are still only known by about every 1 in 3 people. There are other great bands like Rammstein barely recognised, they were just an immediate example.

Come on people. Enough of the childishness. We all know that mp3 downloading is a form of theft. It is an easy form of theft, no doubt. But it is theft nonetheless.

These petty justifications like "well, I'm not PHYSICALLY stealing something" are only childish excuses for what we know to be immoral behaviour.

i dont steal i am given these songs by other people. they have them and give them to me thats all.

I absolutely agree with my partner Zero, I share my music with people who are willing to share theirs...
I have no problem with it at all...

I have heaps of music and I'm getting another drive so I can fill-up the one I have with music.

I don't make any money from doing what I do, and I am not ashamed to say that I do it... because as far as I'm concerned I'm doing nothing wrong.
I still buy cds...too

yep....i still buy cd's too.

See? Right there. Why did you have to tell me that you still buy cds?

If you see absolutely nothing wrong with it, why did you have to justify it by saying that you also buy cds?


Calling it "sharing" does not get rid of the problem. The problem is that the music is not yours, and you have no right to it. If you want to make your own music, then do so. Chances are, you probably can't. And you would rather not spend a good portion of your life learning to play an instrument. If you don't want to put in the time, you must put in the money.

hey its givin to me, i dont share anything i give it to people!

I'm afraid this is a debate we are not going to win.

Monet, money, money...the root of all evil

I'm sure some of you will already have seen this by now, but Michael Moore has an interesting take on the subject of filesharing.

Michael Moore wrote:

I don't agree with copyright laws and I don't have a problem with people downloading the movie and sharing it...as long as they're not trying to make a profit off my labor...

google.com....

flirble.org... (5.4MB DivX)

i dont like it when people takes movies off the net, but songs are different.

Well sometimes it depends. If the person makes good things (movie/music what ever) and makes shit money, I will be obliged to buy their products. But if it's a band/artist like Red Hot Chilli Peppers, Metallica, Rob Zombie, I wouldn't bother buying the album unless I could find it cheaply and conveniently. Frankly they have enough money as it is. Movies work the same with me, I'll only buy it if it's by struggling documentalist etc. or a great movie (Matrix being the perfect example.)

stinkz wrote:

If you see absolutely nothing wrong with it, why did you have to justify it by saying that you also buy cds?

It's not to justify something but to deliver a counter-argument against the music industry.