»my anti-Anti-One statement. dammit.«

why, Why, WHY would the system have to find a counter to the One when the One's purpose is to EXIST and, eventually to reach the Architect and the Source and be REMOVED from the system and RELOAD the Matrix?

they KNOW that there will always be a One. the One is the byproduct of the solution to 01's problem with the previous Matrices. the existance of the One is an integral and necessary part of the Matrix equation.

they didn't NEED extra controls for the One because for the previous five incarnations, the existing controls worked.

someone, please find me a truly ironclad compelling reason that there was an Anti-One in each of the previous Matrices, or help me set this ridiculousness to rest.

discuss.

Grendelvs wrote:

why, Why, WHY would the system have to find a counter to the One when the One's purpose is to EXIST and, eventually to reach the Architect and the Source and be REMOVED from the system and RELOAD the Matrix? they KNOW that there will always be a One. the One is the byproduct of the solution to 01's problem with the previous Matrices. the existance of the One is an integral and necessary part of the Matrix equation. they didn't NEED extra controls for the One because for the previous five incarnations, the existing controls worked. someone, please find me a truly ironclad compelling reason that there was an Anti-One in each of the previous Matrices, or help me set this ridiculousness to rest. discuss.

I also explained this in the previous anti-ones thread but...
Until Neo reaches the source he constitutes a major system imbalance and thus must be counter-balance by a negative. He's like a file in the wrong directory (especially true since we are speaking about computers), before he is at the source by his presence he unbalances the matrix at it's very core. The anti-one by his existance counter's the effect that the one has on the matrix until the one can complete his mission (in other words, be moved into the folder where he can be properly accessed by the nessasary applications to reset the matrix). Computers are very delicate in where their files must be placed to run correctly. Don't beleive me?

*Disclaimer: I am not suggesting you do this!*

Go to whatever drive your operating system is on, then go into the folder that it's on. Now place all the files in all the subfolders and in the folder itself in new folders which are organized by first letter or number. Your system should crash momentarily.

*Disclaimer: I am not suggesting you do this!*

The reason for the anti-one is basically the same.

Adumbro Deus wrote:

Until Neo reaches the source he constitutes a major system imbalance and thus must be counter-balance by a negative.

why? it's a design flaw. meant to be. this awesome counter-balance would threaten the Matrix by it's own presence. AND if this counter-balance was outside the influence of the Matrix (as Smith was) how do you suppose the system would take care of it? they couldn't take care of Smith without Neo. if Neo had gone through the right hand door, he would have provided only for a temporary reprieve for the billions of humans stillin the Matrix because Smith was still active.

Adumbro Deus wrote:

Go to whatever drive your operating system is on, then go into the folder that it's on. Now place all the files in all the subfolders and in the folder itself in new folders which are organized by first letter or number. Your system should crash momentarily.

there's a major flaw in your thinking. i didn't write Windows 98SE. i'd imagine that if the writer of the source code of Win98SE included a systemic anomaly that would periodically reset the operating system (sound familiar?) then none of the valuable data would be lost during this reset, and thus there would be no danger.

its all about

"the prophecy"

of

"the one"

who will

"bring balance"

to the force(matrix)

hahaha

Grendelvs wrote -

Quote:

someone, please find me a truly ironclad compelling reason that there was an Anti-One in each of the previous Matrices, or help me set this ridiculousness to rest.

It really is quite simple - for every positive force there has to be an equal and opposing negative force...

Another Smith wrote:

Grendelvs wrote - Quote: someone, please find me a truly ironclad compelling reason that there was an Anti-One in each of the previous Matrices, or help me set this ridiculousness to rest. It really is quite simple - for every positive force there has to be an equal and opposing negative force...

action-reaction

cause and effect

but

"its happening exactly as before"

"well...not exactly"

mmm


was there or wasnt there a wonky one in the wibbley wobbley world of the matwix

I dont beleive there was an anti-one in every version of the matrix. There is no proof whatsoever. The hole point is that this time it is different. The anti-one was created due to Smiths irrational behaviour possibly designed by the oracle) of not returning to the source when deleted by Neo.
The anomaly code that Smith has, he uses to copy or clone, and the more he copys, the more powerfull he becomes. I no this is speculation but it is alot more likely than having an anti-one in every version. From what the Architect says in reloaded, he dosent make out that Neo is all that powerfull at all and so why would an anti one need to be created to contain his power.

Neo is the anomaly. By definition alone, that means that there is only ONE like Neo, himself. I am of the firm belief that Smith did not become Neo's opposite until he was "beaten" by Neo in M1.

Grendelvs,

I responded to this in another thread before, but you never replied.
Check it out:

Mobil_Ave_Neo wrote:

So you say that the system allready knew way before what Neo was going to do?

yes.

"Your 5 predecessors were, by design, based on a similar predication - a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the One."

the FUNCTION OF THE ONE is to rejoin with the Source and reload the Matrix. they knew what the previous Ones would do. why not Neo? the answer is simple: Neo's reactions are diferent due to the machinations of the Oracle.

Mobil_Ave_Neo wrote:

...the only solution for the Architect is to let the anomaly-variable surrender himself in order to set off a fresh equation. Smith functioned as a threat to mankind and is used to force the One in complying to the proces.

what are you talking about? NEO is the threat to Mankind. Neo's continuted presence in the Matrix sets off some kind of disbelieving chain reaction that will crash the Matrix and kill everyone attached to it. or did you pay any attention at all to the end of Reloaded?

Did you pay attention?
The Oracle sees and understands more than the Architect.

You MADE a believer out of me. Only when he says that he doesn't see her die, the Oracle has hope.

So the Architect (or the system) could have never anticipated Neo's choice just like that.

Maybe if Neo stays very long within the Matrix, he might indeed make the system very unstable and it could kill the people who are still connected to it. But this would certainly not happen at once.
In M1 Smith states that the Matrix contains billions of people. Neo just freed a very very very small percentage of this amount. So he isn't going to let the Matrix crash. I think he would die of old age before he can free an amount of people which would in fact threaten the system as a whole.

Mobil_Ave_Neo wrote:

So the Architect (or the system) could have never anticipated Neo's choice just like that.

?

and you have the gall to ask me if i wasn't paying attention? watch the Architect's sequence in Reloaded again. then again if you still don't get it. Neo was being herded all the way through both M1 and M2. manipulated into realizing his potential and going to see the Architect just like his five predeccesors. they seem to use Neo to their ends pretty easily, don't you think? and i mean both the Architect AND the Oracle when i say "they."

Mobil_Ave_Neo wrote:

I think he would die of age before he can free an amount of people which would in fact threaten the whole system.

it's not about freeing people from the system. it's about their illusion of choice. you heard Neo's conviction at the end of M1. what was it he said? i'm going to show these people...what? Neo's conviction at the end of M1 is to make a difference and show the people in the Matrix that it's not real. THAT is the danger. not freed minds, people unplugged....it's the perceptions of the people that are still plugged in that are what 01 is worried about.

I think Im gonna refrain from posting in this thread.

too late! what's done is done...ha.

Grendelvs,

Why would the Architect state to the Oracle that she played a dangerous game, when he was in on it the whole time?

The Oracle and the Architect don't really co-operate. The Oracle is a neccesary burden for the Architect; she is needed to guide the unbalancing of the equation.

The Oracle never really lies. Even in M1 when she says that eitther Morpheus or Neo was going to die, she didn't lie. Neo died...only temporarely.

Also, it is very true that the One can save Zion if he reaches the Source. She just never told him HOW he should return to the Source. That was up to him.

The Architect never knew about his choice. He only 'understood' it when he saw Neo's reaction. He had to offer him Trinity, because it is the way the system works: he HAS to offer him a choice to make it mathematically work out.
The Architect underestimated the power of true love and both the One and the Many were allowed to expand their powers.

Mobil_Ave_Neo wrote:

Why would the Architect state to the Oracle that she played a dangerous game, when he was in on it the whole time? The Oracle and the Architect don't really co-operate. The Oracle is a neccesary burden for the Architect; she is needed to guide the unbalancing of the equation.

i didn't say that they were in on this changing of the routine together. what i said was, Neo was manipulated by them both. not necessarily together.

existing to non-existing. They happen to be opposites, but if an opposite force doesn't exist, then there's only one force to BEGIN with! That means that there's no opposition. So they have to both exist, because otherwise, the whole theory contridicts itself.

Splinterinyourmind wrote:

That means that there's no opposition. So they have to both exist, because otherwise, the whole theory contridicts itself.

no, it doesn't. let's get some very important points out:

- the One is meant to exist. it's a flaw in the Matrix, but an absolutely necessary one.

- the One is a remainder* from the whole equation.

- the path of the One leads him to the Source, where he has a choice: join with the Source or destroy the whole of Mankind. the previous five Ones were groomed for this and chose to rejoin and reload the Matrix. Neo was manipulated by the Oracle into doing something different**.

* everyone is so wrapped up in the "balance" that got introduced to our Matrix vocabulary that they FORGET what remainder means. there isn't a need for anything on the other side of the equation to balance the One because the remainder is removed and balance is restored when the One joins the Source.

** the only time the remainder wasn't removed was this time around. this time, the One wasn't removed from the equation and THAT was the precipitating event that brought about the equation trying to balance itself.

Smith was the Opposite of Neo BEFORE Revolutions. It started right after Smith came back again as an exile.

i'm not arguing that. did you even read the whole first post? i'm talking about the previous five Matrices.

part of my understanding of the Matrix is that Smith was different after his clash with Neo in M1. like i said in another thread (tying loose threads together) the Oracle gave something to Neo because she knew that Neo would have a clash with an Agent. maybe she knew it was going to Smith, maybe not. maybe Smith is different from the other Agents due to earlier machinations of the Oracle, but that's a whole 'nother thread.

my point is, this revolution is essentially different from the previous five, and that's why the Anti-One reared it's ugly head.

just! this! time!

That probably isn't true, because the Architect seems to like balancing out his equations, so there were probably others. We don't know if this is true, though.

Splinterinyourmind wrote:

the Architect seems to like balancing out his equations, so there were probably others.

so, you really think that the Architect, in an effort to balance a remainder that, by the way, he knows will go away by design, would willfully and knowingly introduce a force that is as powerful and as much of a threat to the system, if not a bigger threat than the One?



if you really, really think that, when how exactly is this game that the Oracle plays more dangerous than that, that he would feel the need to remark on it this time around?

The negative One isn't necesarily a counter to the One. It, as is the One, an integral part of the system. Without him, what's the point in choosing the left door? Why would the Matrix crash. Because in 50 years, almost too many people might be freed. If it got that bad, that it would inevitably crash, they'd shut it down, as they planned on doing in the movie.

Darius wrote:

It, as is the One, an integral part of the system. Without him, what's the point in choosing the left door? Why would the Matrix crash. Because in 50 years, almost too many people might be freed.

what do you mean about the door? do you have left and right door confused? without Smith, Neo would still have chosen the left hand door because he didn't want Trinity to die.

freed minds that are removed from the Matrix won't make it crash. minds still connected that refuse the Matrix in larger and larger numbers will. like i said, the presence of the rebels and the One is an irritant to the believability of the Matrix.

for example, thousands of people see Neo fly through a city. they tell their friends and they'd tell their friends. you'd have this tale of a man that defies gravity, defies reality spreading around. if the Matrix isn't real to these people, then their brains reject the Matrix and there is a catastrophe, just like in the early version of the Matrix where the world was too perfect.

Well, the Negative One didn't ever go as far as it did this time. When the other Ones went through the left door, and were killed (somehow, because it says "where the path of the one ends," and they can't continue their "path" if they're dead), the Negative One was killed too. So it never got as far as it did with Neo.
Also, the other Negative Ones probably had other powers (since they were different programs), so they probably didn't take over people like that even when they WERE the Negative One. See, the thing is, Smith copying himself is a messed up version of Agent Smith's ability to take over one person temporarily. My theory is that when Neo jumped into Smith, not only was the code imprinted on him, a lot of his abilities were screwed around with. Like THAT one.

Splintey