»Previous Negative Ones«

This just kinda hit me.PErhaps the previous ones were vampires and programs like the twins (like, not THE twins) and that's why they were all deleted, except those who went to the Merovingian. WHo better to house the now "cursed" programs than the devil figure?

Seems doubtful unless you mean before the previous ones were destroyed since the negative ones could only exist as long as the one existed.

Adumbro Deus wrote:

Seems doubtful unless you mean before the previous ones were destroyed since the negative ones could only exist as long as the one existed.

That didn't make sense. I was thinking though, and a counter-argument would be, why are there agents in the new Matrix Online? But, counter-counter-argument. A new One shouldn't emerge, so why get rid of the best rebel stopping programs in the matrix?

my counter argument to the very existence of an Anti-One in any previous incarnation of the Matrix is that the previous incarnations of the One always took the door on the right.

anomaly gone, prime code re-inserted. what's the need for an Anti-One?

Perhaps the idea of a Negative One was still in place during the previous versions of the Matrix, despite the fact that the previous Ones always chose the door on the right. Considering that the One existed during the time it would take for him to be removed from the Matrix, trained as a rebel, journey to the Architect's chamber, etc., then wouldn't the Source still have to balance out the equation by creating an opposite to the One?

After typing this however, I find myself asking: What would happen if the equation remained un-balanced, hence the lack of a Negative One?

The Anti-One ( I too used to doubt it's existence) is needed to persuade them to choose the left door. When the Matrix reloads the Negative is doestroyed. Without a negative One why would the Matrix crash?

Smith became Neo's "negative" when Neo went through his body and "destroyed" him in M1.

This had never happened before. Thus, Smith is the only "negative One" or "anti one" to ever exist. This also shows how their can still be agents in the online game, because agents alone are not "negative One's."

The Fifth wrote:

Smith became Neo's "negative" when Neo went through his body and "destroyed" him in M1. This had never happened before. Thus, Smith is the only "negative One" or "anti one" to ever exist. This also shows how their can still be agents in the online game, because agents alone are not "negative One's."

First, I think you completly missed what I was saying. Second, we don't know if that was what made Smith a negative One or if it had never happened before. Well, if you're so sure, mind explaining how the Matrix would crash without a negative One?

Darius wrote:

Adumbro Deus wrote: Seems doubtful unless you mean before the previous ones were destroyed since the negative ones could only exist as long as the one existed. That didn't make sense.

How so, without a one how could there be a negative one?

Grendelvs wrote:

my counter argument to the very existence of an Anti-One in any previous incarnation of the Matrix is that the previous incarnations of the One always took the door on the right. anomaly gone, prime code re-inserted. what's the need for an Anti-One?

Existance of a an all-powerful Yin figure must mean that there was an all-powerful yang figure, our at least somone with the potential to become the one. However if Smith was always part of the Matrix, then he could've always been the negative one, simply always waiting for the trigger.

I get it now, it was just worded funny, atleast I thought so, I see what you is saying. Yeah, that's what I meant. That's why only a few of those types of programs remain, as exiles.

I'm not talkin' about yin and yang metaphorical bullshit, I'm talking about physically. PHYSICALLY, when Neo clashed into Smith, that is when he PHYSICALLY became a negative. Watch the movie(s).

The Fifth wrote:

I'm not talkin' about yin and yang metaphorical bullshit, I'm talking about physically. PHYSICALLY, when Neo clashed into Smith, that is when he PHYSICALLY became a negative. Watch the movie(s).

No, Smith was always Neo's opposite. Neo, being an anomily in the system was considered by it a virus. The system therefore was working overtime to come up with a counter, something equal to Neo, Smith was the result. Smith was the negative one as long as Neo was the one simply because Smith was a system compensation for Neo.

Adumbro Deus wrote:

No, Smith was always Neo's opposite. Neo, being an anomily in the system was considered by it a virus. The system therefore was working overtime to come up with a counter, something equal to Neo, Smith was the result. Smith was the negative one as long as Neo was the one simply because Smith was a system compensation for Neo.

why, Why, WHY would the system have to work to find a counter to Neo when Neo's purpose IS TO BE and, eventually to reach the Source and the Architect and be REMOVED from the system and reset the Matrix? they KNOW that there will always be a One. they don't NEED extra controls for the One because for the previous five incarnations, the existing controls have worked.

Grendelvs wrote:

Adumbro Deus wrote: No, Smith was always Neo's opposite. Neo, being an anomily in the system was considered by it a virus. The system therefore was working overtime to come up with a counter, something equal to Neo, Smith was the result. Smith was the negative one as long as Neo was the one simply because Smith was a system compensation for Neo. why, Why, WHY would the system have to work to find a counter to Neo when Neo's purpose IS TO BE and, eventually to reach the Source and the Architect and be REMOVED from the system and reset the Matrix? they KNOW that there will always be a One. they don't NEED extra controls for the One because for the previous five incarnations, the existing controls have worked.

It's automatic because Neo's very existance constitutes a grave inbalance in the Matrix, whatever his final purpose is. The point is as long as he is he must have a negative otherwise the system collaspes.

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No, Smith was always Neo's opposite. Neo, being an anomily in the system was considered by it a virus. The system therefore was working overtime to come up with a counter, something equal to Neo, Smith was the result. Smith was the negative one as long as Neo was the one simply because Smith was a system compensation for Neo.

I think you forget the fact that Smith was at once nothing more than an AGENT.

Grendelvs wrote:

my counter argument to the very existence of an Anti-One in any previous incarnation of the Matrix is that the previous incarnations of the One always took the door on the right. anomaly gone, prime code re-inserted. what's the need for an Anti-One?

i agree that there was no neo opposite figure in the previous matrices but for different a reason

"its happening exactly as before"

"well...not exactly"

smith may well have been in the previous matrices but not with the replication power and not with the power of the anomaly code

Grendelvs wrote:

Adumbro Deus wrote: No, Smith was always Neo's opposite. Neo, being an anomily in the system was considered by it a virus. The system therefore was working overtime to come up with a counter, something equal to Neo, Smith was the result. Smith was the negative one as long as Neo was the one simply because Smith was a system compensation for Neo. why, Why, WHY would the system have to work to find a counter to Neo when Neo's purpose IS TO BE and, eventually to reach the Source and the Architect and be REMOVED from the system and reset the Matrix? they KNOW that there will always be a One. they don't NEED extra controls for the One because for the previous five incarnations, the existing controls have worked.

That's like saying your computer has a virus, but it does something good along with all the bad, so yo ur Norton Anti-virus leaves it alone.

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I think you forget the fact that Smith was at once nothing more than an AGENT.

SAys who, you? As far as we know Smith is a lot younger than Neo.

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I'm not talkin' about yin and yang metaphorical bullshit, I'm talking about physically. PHYSICALLY, when Neo clashed into Smith, that is when he PHYSICALLY became a negative. Watch the movie(s).

Okay, I've watched the movies, and I still don't see where anyone says that made him the negative.

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i agree that there was no neo opposite figure in the previous matrices but for different a reason "its happening exactly as before" "well...not exactly" smith may well have been in the previous matrices but not with the replication power and not with the power of the anomaly code

This supports the theory of a negative. In the last Matrix the negative One didn't have the ability to reproduce.

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SAys who, you? As far as we know Smith is a lot younger than Neo.

Just as you say you've watched the movies and still don't see what I'm saying, I've watched the movies as well, and exactly when have they ever made Smith seem to be a LOT younger than Neo?

Are you typing this shit while sleeping or somethin? I'd really like to see you try and back up that rediculas claim.

The Fifth wrote:

Quote: SAys who, you? As far as we know Smith is a lot younger than Neo. Just as you say you've watched the movies and still don't see what I'm saying, I've watched the movies as well, and exactly when have they ever made Smith seem to be a LOT younger than Neo? Are you typing this shit while sleeping or somethin? I'd really like to see you try and back up that rediculas claim.

Just because he looks 40 doesn't mean he is. They're machines, they don't have to learn and mature, they're just made that way. I never said he was younger, but that we don't know if he is or not. Are you writing this stuff while you're high? So I guess I backed it up pretty good, huh. Anyone has yet to answer how the Matrix would crash without a negative One.

I never really understood the need for a "negative one" anyway. My understanding is that as Zion grows they begin to release more people from the Matrix and this increases exponentially. Morpheus states something like this in Reloaded "In the past six months we've freed more minds than in the past ....". Surely this increase in people escaping the matrix would eventually reach the point where the people inside the matrix would realise there is something wrong and wake up themselves. If enough people woke up the matrix would crash.

Besides the whole point of Smith is that when Neo "destroys" him in M1 he is scheduled for deletion and becomes an exile. How does the matrix suddenly decide to make an exile so powerful (as the negative One) that he becomes a danger to the system itself?

nomad wrote:

I never really understood the need for a "negative one" anyway. My understanding is that as Zion grows they begin to release more people from the Matrix and this increases exponentially. Morpheus states something like this in Reloaded "In the past six months we've freed more minds than in the past ....". Surely this increase in people escaping the matrix would eventually reach the point where the people inside the matrix would realise there is something wrong and wake up themselves. If enough people woke up the matrix would crash. Besides the whole point of Smith is that when Neo "destroys" him in M1 he is scheduled for deletion and becomes an exile. How does the matrix suddenly decide to make an exile so powerful (as the negative One) that he becomes a danger to the system itself?

But when you can make people, why would people leaving be a problem. WHy would it just crash, anyway? Smith wa the negative before he was an exile.

someone said that the anti one was there because of the one...ok then before neo chooses the left door, smith is already changing differently then the previous one's/anti-one's stating everthing is happening just as it did before...well not everything..this was way back in the beginning of m2...before we know that neo chooses the left door...smith was already becoming the super-smith way before the system knows that neo will pick the other door..maybe smith knows neo is different due to part of his code being written on to him when neo kills him in m1...thoughts? help!

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...then wouldn't the Source still have to balance out the equation by creating an opposite to the One?

The equation is already unbalanced by the need for choice. The One is the balance for this. There is no need for an anti One. Smith is just a rogue program.

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But when you can make people, why would people leaving be a problem. WHy would it just crash, anyway? Smith wa the negative before he was an exile.

The point is that if enough people leave the system becomes unstable. How likely are you to believe in "reality" if people all around you are disappearing. The more people that leave the easier it becomes to leave. This, I believe, is the point of the Kid. He is the first to self-eject - indicating that leaving the matrix is becoming easier. This seems to have been what happened in the first matrix. People didn't believe and just woke up causing the system to collapse.

Agent Smith: (M1)
Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world. Where none suffered. Where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program. Entire crops were lost.

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The equation is already unbalanced by the need for choice. The One is the balance for this. There is no need for an anti One. Smith is just a rogue program

the oracle says smith is the anti-one...

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Neo: What is he? Oracle: He is you. Your opposite, your negative, the result of the equation trying to balance itself out.

Machines need power , power means human in the matrix..people got free and get out of the matrix means more resistance to get more people free which will lead to end the only source of power machines have and kinda like a Revolution on the Machine city to get thier planet back which something the machines dont want !

about the One and its negative ... Everything has its negative , Neo was connected to the source so he had super powers BUT he was a normal person so was smith a normal program ... Morphus made Neo free and NEO killed smith , smith KNEW what he must do (deletion) but he couldn..he disobeyed...why ? becoz he found out that he is NEO's negative which means he has the power to CHOSE to Disobey

Every time NEO was getting stronger Smith was too... Neo learnt how to fly Smith did it..but Neo is always a step forward , its like if there is only one who rule the world..it would b a disaster (except god him self) coz he can do whatever he wants with the SYSTEM...but when creating a NEGATIVE for him they both can BALANCE the system, they both gone so the System became Stable once again

Virus + Antivirus = Healthy system (stable and BALANCED system)