»Right before Bane gets taken over by Smith....«

His friend holds up a package and says 'What matters is this'....Then he gets on the phone and gets back into the Matrix just before Smith does his thing to Bane.

Now my question is....Was there a purpose for that package that is significant to the movie? Even if it was, you can't bring an item back into the real world, can you? Were they just doing it so the package could be deleted? I mean really....what happened to that package when Bane's friend went back to the real world through the phone?

I don't know the importance of that disk but dosn't it work like... if you plug in to the matrix and you find a gold ring and you put it on...and then you go back to the real world and yeah...you don't have the ring on but..the next time you plug in to the matrix...THEN! you have the ring on....right?...can that be proved...but thats just a theory based on.uhhh..nothing really....

It was a message to tell Neo the oracle wanted to see him. The package, most likely, just shows up on one of the screens as a message, since it is in fact computer data

It was the package which would allow Neo to contact the oracle. It worked in the same way as the message from the Osiris. The package is simply a representation of the code which can be carried from place to place in the matrix.

That package is the one that the Oracle has sent for Neo. It is important.

However, you bring up an interesting question about items going to and from the real world. Let us theorize about would happen after that guy (Malachi) exits the Matrix.

I think that after you exit the Matrix, before you are unplugged, you remain in a construct program of sorts. The item can go from the Matrix to the construct. They are both virtual worlds so that is possible. What will happen to the item after that is beyond me. Maybe if it is a disc or something they can still view it in a computer in the construct. But I dont think it can come into the real world.

Unless the computers in the construct can be linked to the computers on the ship?....Nah....

Akshat Gupta wrote:

However, you bring up an interesting question about items going to and from the real world....

who are you talking about?..who is ''you''

ME!

So, did the same happen to The Keymaker they were trying to save from deletion?

How does that deal with what we're talking about?

maxius wrote:

So, did the same happen to The Keymaker they were trying to save from deletion?

Did WHAT happen to the keymaker?

Quote:

I think that after you exit the Matrix, before you are unplugged, you remain in a construct program of sorts. The item can go from the Matrix to the construct. They are both virtual worlds so that is possible.

I was asking if the Keymaker was transported through the construct.

I don't know the answer to that, but how is the (without a purpose) keymaker supposed to get to the source when he is dead? I suppose, like Smith, he can somehow come back alive without a purpose and return to the "software" part of the source as was said earlier....is that how a dead, purposeless program gets to the source?

I meant that is what Smith was SUPPOSED to do. Obviously he didn't.

The keymaker never goes to the real world. He is deleted by the large array of Smiths in the maintenance corridors. However, he is in time to fulfill his purpose by bringing the key to the door of light when Neo needed it.

Smith obviously 'splits apart' at the end of the Matrix....in Reloaded, Smith even said 'you KILLED ME' to Neo....Yet Smith is back in his same form again in Reloaded, and is supposed to GO TO THE SOURCE TO GET DELETED! This is the only way a program can be deleted! But of course he was 'compelled to stay and disobey'....

All those Smiths didn't 'delete' the keymaker. They killed him, just like Neo 'killed' Smith. But wait....remember the Oracle said 'the programs doing what they're supposed to do are invisible'....maybe the keymaker can get to the source to have his code deleted in an invisible form because he was doing what he was SUPPOSED to do by going to the source to be deleted.

Quote:

The keymaker never goes to the real world. He is deleted by the large array of Smiths in the maintenance corridors. However, he is in time to fulfill his purpose by bringing the key to the door of light when Neo needed it.

But where is he between the time Neo saves them from the trucks colliding and Morpheus's speech before they destroy the power plant? Because it shows them in the real world briefly before they go to the building.

Remember "Final Flight of the Osiris"?

After the Osirs crew finds all those sentinals, and the two diggers, they send (hmm, sorry I can't remember how to spell her name) a crew member into the matrix with a package. She drops it in a mailbox. Later, we see Niobe showing those same scans to the other captains durring Relaoded.

This would mean data can be converted from a real comuter system, into a virtual storage divice, and then instered into the matrix.

If it can go one way, then it must go an other as well. After all.. somehow the Logos crew converted it from that virtual data of the matrix object, into one their ship nativly reads.

My guess is, once it's in going through the hardline.. it can easily be stored, and if they can drop a person near a hardline inside the matrix, maybe they can do just the same with objects.

In Enter the Matrix, I recall parts where you can hack the matrix and drop weapons to fixed locations within certain areas.

Oh! and as for the keymaker thing.. Remember what agent Johnson said? "Then you were meant for one more thing, deletion." just before he put his hand around the keymaker's neck. Sounds to me the machines consider killing to just be deletion.

Neo killed Smith, remember? Smith even SAID IT HIMSELF! But was Smith deleted when Neo killed him? NO. Deletion requires the 'purposeless' program or human to go to the source....you can't lose purpose until the first time a program or human DIES in the Matrix....after that, their purpose IN THE MATRIX is no longer needed. Neo's no longer had purpose when he was killed. That is why he needed to go to the source, and he eventually did. Agent Smith tried to avoid this because he was 'compelled to stay, compelled to disobey' by breaking the rules and cloning himself to create chaos and corruption throughout the Matrix. He would have been successful if it weren't for him being a machine....He, along with the Architect and any program (except the Oracle), cannot see beyond choice because he doesn't understand the choices and why he makes them. Neo, with the help of the Oracle, can. She guided him on his journey and set up his side of the equation, although he was the one who had to work it out. When she told Neo there weren't other programs like her, she meant that no other programs could understand WHY they made choices....they didn't look as deep as the Oracle did and weren't willing to dig as far for what they believed in. Agent Smith didn't understand WHY he was making the choies he was, which screwed him in the end when he took over Neo at the wrong time....

At the end, Neo is plugged into the source, or has a direct connection. When Smith took over him in the Matrix, the machines somehow knew this and sent the 'white surges' you see that were basically deleting whatever Neo was connected to in the Matrix at that time. Neo was connected to Smith....Smith's code was deleted from the system, thus he was deleted. Which brings up an interesting point....

I don't think Neo died died at the end of the movie according to my logic. He, like the Oracle and many others, was taken over by Smith. All the others came back to life, so why couldn't Neo? Did the process of deleting Smith through Neo's connecton to the source, somehow, also kill Neo in the Matrix? If this were the case, I don't understand why everyone else, including the Oracle, wouldn't have died....

Let's hear your opinioin.

My opinion

*Programs live..go back to normal/People die=Neo's dead*

...But his spirit lives on Mm

I posted this before, but can't remember where.

Having to do with why I think Smith killed Neo. It's the section where maggie describes Smith's (Bane's) Neural activity. It sounded to me like the Smith copying proccess causes considerable brain damage.. until what's left is a configuration of Smith. This is actually very similar to programming, or reprogramming an old style Read Only Memory, 'ROM', in a computer system.

Also did you see all that light coming out Smith's (Neo's) body in the real world? Nothing organic could survive that. You can't make that much light come out of you when you grab some 2,000 volt wires (more then enough to burn your internal organs).

So, I think when Smith copies himself onto a human, he kills the host. Neo in Reloaded, "I don't know what he was doing, but I know what it felt like. It felt like I was back in that hallway, it felt like dying."

Now for the final example.. at the end of Revolutions after all the Smiths are deleted, you don't see single human. Only the programs survived. Notice how you ONLY see the Oracle, Sati, Seraph, and the Architet afterwards. No one sees a single human lay on the ground after those millions of Smith deletions. Nore do you see any humans after the Matrix is reset.

That's all I can think of for now.

Akshat Gupta wrote:

That package is the one that the Oracle has sent for Neo. It is important. However, you bring up an interesting question about items going to and from the real world. Let us theorize about would happen after that guy (Malachi) exits the Matrix. I think that after you exit the Matrix, before you are unplugged, you remain in a construct program of sorts. The item can go from the Matrix to the construct. They are both virtual worlds so that is possible. What will happen to the item after that is beyond me. Maybe if it is a disc or something they can still view it in a computer in the construct. But I dont think it can come into the real world. Unless the computers in the construct can be linked to the computers on the ship?....Nah....

When the data is in the contruct it can very easily be converted/placed on a disk/cartridge. Just like Tank uploaded stuff into Neo with these little disks.

It must be pointed out that Smith never says that Neo "killed" him. He says "you destroyed me". It's a subtle difference I know, but it seems that Neo corrupted Smiths file. He didn't actually kill OR delete him. The keymaker was definitely killed. (It must be added that agents can't be killed in quite the same way that other programs can because they just skip to another person).

I don't think so.

Your answer?

What happens when a program dies? We know that when they are deleted they are supposed to return to the Source but some choose not to. What happens to programs that die? Exiles that are shot? We talked about this quite a while back and we thought that they too return to the Source. The Source is the final resting place. Programs will go there sooner or later whether they want to or not. So when the Keymaker dies, he goes to his final resting place in the Source. IF the Oracle ever chooses to say her goodbyes and go to her resting place, she will retire to the Source. Notice I said IF.

I think that a program can choose to return to the Source when it's purpose has been furfilled/upgraded.

If it does not, it is considered an exile.

When the Keymaker got shot, he didn't return to the Source.
His shell is still within the Matrix and it has to comply to the rules of the Matrix. His shell would rotten or in this case his shell was blown up by Neo exiting the Architect's chamber.