»Who is the Merovingian?«

Couldn't it be that, since the real life Merovingian's have been asscoaited, not just with Jesus, but with the nephilim or fallen angels and that the real life persphone was the wife of Hades and Queen of the Underground in greek myth, that they are the opposite counter parts of Neo and Trinity, like a negative mirror image? Just a thought...

I agree. The Mero was exiled because he was replaced by the Oracle.

That's why he hates the Oracle so much. That is also why Seraph used to work for him, and now Seraph works for the Oracle.

Side note: I think Merovingian and Persephone worked as a team, with Mero investigating causality and Pers investigating emotion. It was close, but they were exiled when the Matrix failed. Hence the Oracle, an intuitive program. She was the next step in the machine world investigatiing how humans worked in relation to the matrix.

It is obvious, from his color palette (black and red) his lusts (power/control), and his very position (in the bowels of the matrix, in a place called Hell), that he is the Satan of the Matrix.

The Merovingian bloodline claimed the Nephilim as their progenitors, the sons of fallen angels.

So too, the Merovingian is a fallen Angel.

But I do not think he was a former One. For Satan never was a former Christ. He is not a savior, but an antithesis of a savior. Neo must give freely of himself. The Merovingian sees "only cost." The Merovingian is far to self-centered and egotistical to be a One... or even to have ever been a One.

The Oracle said that Agent Smith was Neo's opposite. And, for her purposes he is. He is a nihilist... a black hole. He seeks to destroy the matrix and the world, because he sees no reason for its existence.

But the Merovingian is ALSO Neo's opposite, for even though he sees deep meaning in the Matrix, he wants to own it and control it. Also, he is in love with his self. Trinity threatens his life, and he caves under the pressure. His every principle is subordinate to self-preservation.

I am leaning towards the hypothesis that The Merovingian and Persephone are programs, probably originally intended to study human behavior and emotions. (Because it's obvious that the Architect isn't so good at relating to people, and he said himself that his first attempts at the Matrix failed spectacularly.)

So I can see The Architect bringing those two in order to study the behavior, psychology, and reactions of humans in various situations and relationships in order to make the Matrix work. Persephone obviously is an expert on human emotions, while the Merovingian was supposed to tackle the subject of human motivation (the "why" of things: causality.) But since humans often don't know exactly why they do things themselves, I could see why a program like him would eventually come to feel smug and superior compared to the humans he is supposed to study and observe. Eventually it seems they either served the purpose that the Architect had given them, or they just decided to go rogue, because the Oracle did imply that they had become "Exiles," or programs that were hiding out in the Matrix to avoid deletion.

But they seem to have fallen prey to the very traps of human behavior and experience that they were sent to study: as powerful as they are, the Merovingian is a "pompous prick"( to quote Persephone) and Persephone herself is a jilted wife who either cannot or does not want to remove herself from a disagreeable situation (like many women in her situation choose not to leave a bad relationship, even when it might be in their best interest to do so.)

Meanwhile, the Merovingian seems intent on becoming the most powerful of the Exiles. In doing so, he has become an information broker; after all, knoweldge is power. He prides himself on the fact that there is nothing going on in the Matrix that he does not know about (or more importantly, the reason why said event is going on in the first place) and this is probably why he has issues with the Oracle. Though quite perceptive and intuitive, he may not have access to the level of intuition and the sage wisdom of the Oracle, and this probably makes her a rival in his eyes.



---Die Fledermaus

hes just a program running an empire....

TheEigenValue wrote:

Quote: merovingian is a bloodline of David & Jesus , so he is ... a jew, zion is also jewish, "matrix" is produced by jews... and so is the real matrix.... ...in a word, it is all a big jewish crap. Wow aryan proleterian, you're really in touch with Jewish news and events. How do you become so well informed? I got it! You're Jewish, aren't you?

Do read the book "The Da Vinci Code" (New York 2003) by Dan Brown, in which the Merovingian line of Kings are explained. You will also find a lot of material on this topic on the Internet. Whether any jewish matters are crap or not I think varies from matter to matter, just as any matter does.

Merovingian in The Matrix I believe is an evil exiled program with delusions of grandheur, as thinking of his choice of name...

Well... he is a great program.. and persephone to. Their porpouse is to study human behavior and emotions... But soon they were exiled... and i think that it was becouse oracle...

im new here, but i must add my input...(my last/first post)
The meravingian bloodline is that linked to the antichrist, the bloodline is associated with secret societies that are said to basically rule the world behind many puppets...Amoung them is washington, the bush family, royalty of france and england, as well as many ancient kings... The marelvingian is the master of all the exiled programs and has control over everything behind the scenes... It all makes sense to me...

The following is a selection from an essay by a man named Brian Takle written on November 14, 2003. The full document can be found wylfing.net... I read this article and then watched Revolutions again and it seems to be the most definite explanation of the Matrix's metaphors.

Quote:

The Merovingian and Club Hel The Merovingian is one of the most mysterious figures in the trilogy. I will try to stick close to the facts here, and not stray too far into wild speculation. We have to go back to the Grail legend. The Holy Grail is the middle ground -- the entrance back into the Garden, guarded by firey angels. In the legend, there is a line of Frankish kings called the Merovingians, who are descended from Christ. They protect the Grail by their keeping of the bloodline of Christ. It makes perfect sense that on the Quest for the Grail one would encounter its protector. However, there are two kinds of protection. The first kind of protection is protection against evil. What evil? Well, that is the second kind of protection. The second kind seeks to prevent anyone from attaining the Grail. The legend says that there are angels in favor of mankind, and those against mankind. This is the basis of the War in Heaven, the result of which is the casting out of Those Opposed, led by Lucifer. Here is one of my small indulgences with regard to speculation -- I am going to say that this "casting out" is part of the history of the Matrix universe, and that it means "cast out from the machine city to the Matrix." We know that "the Merovingian" is a protector of the Grail, and we know that there are two protectors. I'm sure I don't need to spell this out, but I will anyway. The fact that Merv's wife is Persephone makes it absolutely clear that he is Hades, which assuredly equates to Lucifer. In case you have not figured it out, the other protector is the firey angel who calls himself a protector: Seraph. (We see that these two know each other, so I feel like that is evidence for what I'm saying here.) I am going to take this a little further and say that the Merovingian is opposed to mankind. He is also opposed to God, by which I mean the Architect and the Oracle. And the Merovingian will strike at all of them every time he gets a chance, out of pure hatred, for being cast out. Most especially he is against the Oracle, because this "Age" of the Matrix is very much her idea. (This is why he wants to harm the Oracle, c.f. Enter the Matrix.) The whole "Neo thing" invented by the Oracle is definitely on the Merovingian's shit list. For Reloaded, we have his motivation for imprisoning the Keymaker. And for Revolutions, we have his motivation for taking advantage of Neo being trapped at the Mobil Avenue station by demanding the eyes of the Oracle. The Merovingian surely had no intention of releasing Neo from Mobil station. Not ever. He would have harmed the Oracle (again) and harmed Neo at the same time. A nice victory for the Merovingian. Now that we have properly set up the Merovingian as the Devil, it is time to turn our attention to the Club Hel scene. The events at the club are tightly connected to the events at the Mobile Avenue station, and it all gets its start when Neo halted the squiddies at the end of Reloaded and fell into a coma. That coma was compared by many readers to a death, and the question was frequently raised whether Neo would be transformed after he woke up. I suspected as much, and it turns out to be true in a bigger way than I ever anticipated. It is representative of Christ's post-crucifixion and pre-resurrection experience. In the Apostle's Creed, Christ descends into Hell after his death on the cross. The Creed doesn't really say any more than this, but it gets heavy interpretation in the Catholic Church, so there are several variations on the whole story. At the moment of his death, Christ's soul and body separated from each other -- his body stayed on Earth and his soul went down into...well, this varies. Sometimes it's Sheol, the place of the dead. Sometimes Hell. And sometimes Limbo. This fits in extremely nicely with our yin/yang Christ. The yin can descend to Hell, while the yang spends time in Limbo. I will get to yang/Neo's side of this experience in the next section. For now, I will focus on yin/Trinity. I have all but spelled this out, but in case you weren't paying attention, I believe that Neo and Trinity represent one person. If something happens to Trinity, we can just as well say it happened to Neo. This is mainly true since the end of Reloaded, after Neo resurrects Trinity. After that they are like one. Therefore, Trinity's trip to Club Hel counts as Christ's descent into Hell. I find it fascinating that Trinity is accompanied by Morpheus and Seraph. A minor sidetracking... When this trio approaches the main doors of Club Hel, the bouncers recognize Seraph immediately and call him "Wingless." Inside the club, the Merovingian calls Seraph "L'ange sans ailes" (Wingless Angel). This reveals a depth and complexity about Seraph that is very intriguing. He has had his wings clipped. Seraph, too, must be some kind of exile from the machine city, and his protection of the Grail may be work of atonement. Now a few choice bits of dialogue. As Trinity, Morpheus, and Seraph enter the club: MEROVINGIAN - What in the hell? Precisely. If there was any doubt, let it be gone. This is hell. Actually, just in case you still aren't certain, the Merovingian repeats himself later: "You have fought through hell." And if you are truly dense, the clothing worn by Persephone and the Merovingian is positively devilish. The Trainman is with the Merovingian, quite likely informing him that Neo is stuck at Mobil Avenue station. Then Morpheus does something strange and tells the Merovingian that they want to make a deal. MEROVINGIAN - Okay. I have something you want. To make a deal, you must have something I want, yes? And it so happens there is something I want. Something I've wanted ever since I first came here. It is said they cannot be taken, they can only be given. MORPHEUS - What? MEROVINGIAN - The eyes of the Oracle. His seething hatred for the Oracle runs deep. For him, it's not enough that he had her exterminated. The Merovingian wants the Oracle's soul. Apparently, he has wanted this kind of possessive revenge since the moment he entered the Matrix. I'll take this as additional evidence that he was forced out of the machine city and into the Matrix against his wishes, and (from what it looks like) as a result of the Oracle's actions. The creepiest part of it all was that while the Merovingian was asking for the Oracle's eyes he was slowly munching on two eyeball-looking olives. The subtext in these lines is just as amazing. This is truly a deal with the Devil. The subtext says, "Yes, I will give you what you want, but in exchange you must turn against God." Given what happens later in the movie, I strongly suspect that Neo, even if he had been released, would have been thwarted from achieving the Grail if the Oracle's eyes had been delivered to the Devil. The Oracle played a key part in Neo's transformation, a part that wouldn't have occurred. I am very unsure about Morpheus here. I think he might have been ready to shake hands and go collect some eyeballs. He is a little pissed off at the Oracle too. But that's all academic, because Trinity changes the equation by pointing a gun directly at the Merovingian's forehead. And this is the behavior we expect from Christ toward the Devil. Deal-making is really out of the question. And anyway, Hades was never good for letting the dead return to the world of the living. He always had to be coerced somehow. Precisely at this instant, Neo, at Mobile Avenue station, says, "You got yourself into this. You can get yourself out." And that's exactly what happens.

It is my understanding that Mero is from the second version of the Matrix. The version that represented hell (as Seraph seems to be an angel from the Heaven version). From the choice talks, to the obvious clues: Wife is Persephone and Club Hel.

If you've read the history of Merovingians, they were a Frankish ruling dynasty in old France. They claim that they are the direct descendends of Christ's bloodline. In today's world, the true Mormons, not the converted, have taken their place, the Skull and Bones society (Free Masons) of Yale are claimed to be from the same blood lines. And if you look at US history, every president was from Free Mason bloodline, so I believe that Merv was representing the US gov't. And his restaurant represented the US embassy where people from different countries get persmission to live in US (Matrix). Persephone was the daughter of Zeus and Demeter, the goddess of underworld, where Hades married her and kept her to himself. Sort of an abduction if you will.
In sort of a weird sense, in Passion of Christ, Monica Bellucci plays Mary Magdelene (Prostitute, who was saved by Christ), whom the Merovingians claim that had children with Christ, also plays the Merv's wife in Matrix.[/img]

Sorry guys dont know how 2 start a new topic so il begin here! in the origional matrix film, it explains redidual self image. does this mean if a man went crazy and believed himself to be ... say a giant chicken, wold his matrix image cange to resemble this?

the un wrote:

Sorry guys dont know how 2 start a new topic so il begin here! in the origional matrix film, it explains redidual self image. does this mean if a man went crazy and believed himself to be ... say a giant chicken, wold his matrix image cange to resemble this?

I guess you could say that would be the case.
But then I don't think you would be a candidate to leave the matrix if you thought of yourself as a big chicken or a Republican. You'd deserve to stay in the make believe world.

lilgrasshoppah wrote:

The Merovingian bloodline claimed the Nephilim as their progenitors, the sons of fallen angels. So too, the Merovingian is a fallen Angel.

Seraphim: the highest order of angels.
Seraph's other name amongst the Merovingian's programs: Wingless.

the merovingian can in one way, be seen as the catholic church/christianity. in the movie he is given the character of one that propurts to have sole and total carte blanche over all that happens in the matrix in terms of traffic. He cannot influence the forces at play-freedom and bondage and he cannot influence who gets to wake up or not.He does however understand cause and effect and masterfully uses it to his benifit. Christians have always claimed to have the sole ticket to everlasting life and heaven. Even though they cannot influence the forces at play- life and death, they understand Good and Evil and arbitrally use it to their benifit.

Merovingian could be both an exile AI program and a “former one.” The film is fiction/fantasy so I'm going to try some suspension of belief and basicly start off the top of my head.

Humans live and die and we know that there have been at least six generations of “ones” that could have possibly changed the outcome of the Matrix.

Perhaps the first AI program created to deal with the “one” control did as Agent Smith had done and gone a little crazy. Rewritten some of its own code or learned how to interpret the orginal code diffrently than expected.

I don’t want to go into it deeply but the machines where originally built by humans and since when have you ever heard of a human producing code that wasn’t flawed in some way?

So the machines would have to start looking for better ways to write their code… and maybe made some of the same mistakes we humans do (just for sake of argument, etc).

Anyway, back to the Merovingian. Perhaps in the first exchange, instead of the “one” mastering the AI code… the code masters the “one!” Takes apart the one’s personality and adds it to it’s own (so, yeah… the human vessel is dead and the soul is gone but part of the personailty still exists in the AI). It’s the chaotic, unpredictable personality of humans that the machines fear. That could explain how this exile AI program is so powerful, able to survie all the Matirx iterations, able to manipulate the Matrix… and so fearful of his successors.

Merovingian is a "fallen angle" or the personality of a previous one that has been corrupted by a powerful AI program. An entity that is descended directly from the “bloodline” of the original one.

I take back this post... the first post still stands as my guess.

The Merovingian is not a previous agent, IMHO. Neo is clearly referred to having several predecessors by both the Architect and The Merovingian and The Merovingian has fought these predecessors.
The name "Merovingian" refers to an Illuminati group that was in existence in the days of the Knights Templar (Neo, a Knight?) or "Priory of Sion". (City of Zion?) The Knights Templar, the military arm of an Illuminati secret society known as the Priory of Sion, kicked off The Crusades that lasted for over a century and a half. A rift later developed between the Templars and the Priory of Sion when Jerusalem was lost to Saracen Turks in 1187. In 1307, the king of France, Philippe the Fair (a Merovingian Illuminati), coveted the wealth and was jealous of the Templars' power. I find it interesting that more lines have not been drawn to the "Holy Grail" with this film. The Illuminati are supposedly responsible for the Novus Ordea Seclorum or "New Secular Order" (not New World Order... Thats just bad translation... ), a philosophy of thought used even by our fore-fathers, to describe how to break away from the slavery imposed by the church ruled states of thier day. The Holy Grail, which was knowledge, not a cup, was the tool to wake up the people to the truth, and was ultimately supressed by the church and government to control the people.
The Merovingian, as I digress, was from an Order of Illuminati, the enlightened ones, who knew of the system that corrupted the government, and enslaved the people, but it benefitted him so he worked to preserve this Order and hide the knowledge. In the movie, he controlled the girl in the restaurant just like the church and government controls the people, with ideas that have prepackaged responses... Pavlovian.
So the question is: Is Neo supposed to be the Messenger sent to deliver us from our slavery to church and state by teaching us the knowledge of the Grail? -Temet Nosce!

Er...

To my knowledge the Merovingian was NOT an Illuminati group - you've been reading Dan Brown, no?

IMHO, the Illuminati were scientists, who formed the Illuminati, as I understand it, for protection.

f1r3g0dz wrote:

The Knights Templar, the military arm of an Illuminati secret society known as the Priory of Sion, kicked off The Crusades that lasted for over a century and a half

I don't think that's quite right... I thought they were all seperate. But hey, show me a link with evidence otherwise and I'll reconsider.

Comet wrote:

Er... To my knowledge the Merovingian was NOT an Illuminati group - you've been reading Dan Brown, no?

Sounds like it. But what he speaks about is factual.

Even though we see, or can persume that Merv is this fallen angle, devil, trafficer of infromation inside the matrix, the man to go to when you want or need somthing.

But i always get this feeling that the merv is something more. in the sence of a previous one.

Quote:

A long time ago, when we first came here. It was different. He was different. He was like you. - Looking at neo in the mirror. Persephane, M2

The reason why i say this is because of what the arcitect says to Neo

Quote:

The previous ones were affermation designed to represent the function of the one. - Arcitect, M2

So what if it was possible that the Merv was a previous one, and that when he returned the source (remembering that he is a program), his purpose was fufilled, and facing deletion he exiled to the matrix.

El Escogido wrote:

Sounds like it. But what he speaks about is factual.

... I know it's factual, but it's all messed up.



For me, the Merovingian simply can't be a previous One.

Evidence?

Merv; M2 wrote:

'Handle us'? You'll handle us! I must say your predecessors had much more respect. ... I have survived your predecessors, and I will survive you.

Therefore, the Merovingian has met all previous Ones.

.... although he could have been the very first One, but isn't it much more satisfying to assume that the first One was female; Eve in Eden?

I have a strong prejudice in believing that The One could not be solely a program. I still think that The One would have to be able to actually jack out of the matrix and in to Zion, or the real world, which I just don't see a program being able to do (Smith's case is different.)

The only thing that I see as a similarity between The One and the Merovingian is the similar clothes they are wearing when Neo and the Merovingian first meet at his restaurant and what Neo is wearing at Mobile Ave.

stanley_125 wrote:

When Neo visited the Architect, The previous Ones apeared on screens on the walls of the room, None of them looked like the Merovigian. That doesn't mean he couldn't have changed his appearence or still someone elses body kinda like smith, but it just sounds very unlikely. Why would he do that? unless it was a necesity, but still that's just too much. There's only two or so more hours of plot left to see in the matrix. I really dont think they'll spend the time talking about the Merovigian being a previous One, and if he were, then they would at least have mentioned him in the cast list for revolutions. I also read the "How many Neos have existed? How many Zions?" section and that contradicts what i just wrote a little, but the TV screens to me show sometimes reactions of previous Ones, like in the part of the "4-3-2" predesesors, and sometimes is just the new (6th) neo, like when he leaves the room. People would have to read the section to see what i'm talking about, I dont want to restate everything. And that other part about some of the residents of Zion recognizing Neo, It could also be possible that they get freed from the matrix without ever seen Neo. And have hust been told about him by the oracle. I guess i'm going a bit out of topic here, but i just wanted to make sure my point has some backup.

Quote:

Golfb88: There is no way The Merovingian could be a previous one. The Merovingian is just a program who smuggles other programs in and out of The Matrix. Notice he "owns" The Trainman, and the Trainman is used as a Transport from The Real World to The Matrix. It is this simple. [quote]

The Merovingian is an actual real life reference to the alleged bloodline and descendants of Christ. Supposedly the bloodline of Christ is a well protected secret in France and descendants of Christ were safeguarded to France from Israel sometime after his cruxification. Also that most of the royality in Europe, primarily France but also Britian, comes from descendats of Christ, and that Christ was married, had kids, etc, that were taken to France.

In the Matrix the Merovingian is refered to as one of the oldest AI's that there are by the Oracle. And he has also survived every conflict with Neo's predessors. He is not Neo and never was, he is a false-Neo, like the antichrist/antisavior, which is also part of the real life Merovingian legend that the antichrist will come from the same bloodline.

The Merovingian knows everything, that is his business, being a traffiker of information. The reason why is because he has to know everything to maintain his power--cause and effect. Nothing happens without him knowing or finding out, hence he controls it all and maintains the balance, just like the architect maintains the balance of the entire Matrix. so the architect maintins the Matrix world from the macine world, and the Merovingian controls the Matrix from within the Matrix, but can move in and out of the machine world--or other programs if they are willing to deal with him and they have to because only he can do it...till Neo. So to the machine world the Merovingian is the savior, though not a savior in the upright moral sense, but he is their savior till Neo frees both the humans and the machine world...the ending of revolutions is Neo's freeing of everyone, AI and human, and making peace so the war ends between the macine world and zion.

Just like in real life the Merovingian bloodline is a bogus hoax, claiming Jewish ancestry from Christ to a French bloodline of royality the Matrix Merovingian is a false savior. So in the Matrix its the same concept--a fake, but very real, Merovingian who appears to be all powerful because Agents cant touch him so they steer clear of him and his AI's, and he controls the link between the machine world AI's and the Matrix AI's so he is the savior between those because an AI faces either return to the source, deletion, or exile in the Matrix, so being exiled all AI's have to deal with the Merovingain sooner or later. Neo, the real savior, surpasses him by projecting himself into the Matrix without a direct link, just as Neo's self enemy, Smith, figures out how to get out.

So ultimately the Merovingian is a fake Neo to the AI's. Just like Neo couldn't find the Oracle in the Matrix, neither could the Merovingian so he has to hunt her down as well. So Neo and the Merovingian are the same from opposite worlds, but Mero is a fake one, not the real one, and Smith intends to surpass even Neo. Hence the whole 'everything that has a begininning has an end' issue--the only way to end Smith is to end himself, and the Merovingian cant stop either of them once they reach a certain point beyond his, like getting in and out of the Matrix without his help, and Neo surpasses all by reaching the machine world without the Merovingians help, like the Mero helps AI's go to and from the machine world and must be dealt with.