»Why wasn't Smith a woman?«

Let me refrase. In man's small, unintelligent mind, the opposite of a male is a female. Smith and Neo are opposites. So why are they both male?

This isn't a sexist comment, but the movie would've been silly with a female smith. Being opposites has nothing to do with sex anyway. And It wasn't really man's idea of opposite, it was machine's...

I don't think Smtih was ever Neo's opposite. I think The Oracle was just leading Neo on again. I mean, for something to be mathematicly, or even in power an opposite, it must also be an equal. Smith was way way way more powerfull then Neo, how can he possibly be a negative?

Ok but, for the why not bit.. Simply because if Smith was female she would not have been the stereotypical enforcer the machines want her to be. She might make the humans think "Hey, the machines are a bit progressive." By making Smith an egotistical raging hating male, they enforced the line of thought that the machines represent bad. Which is actually good for the machines. I'll explain in a bit.

Notice how in the animatrix episode "World Record" the agents ordered the runner to not wake up. How the machines wiped his memory and plugged him back in? Yet for some reason other people (who the agent's didn't know about at that moment) did wake up, were not killed and recycled, they were freed.

I think Rama-Kandra was being deleted because the machines figured out he was letting the humans out rather then recycling them or plugging them back in... Neo might have met with the very machine who facilitated his freedom from the matrix.

Ok.. back to why. If the humans hate the machines, they will keep killing them, and treating them like the object the machines treat them as. But, what if there was less reason for the freed humans to hate machines and programs? What if programs exuded freedom, and understanding of freedom? This would lead to sympathetic humans. Sympathetic humans could lead to even more machines then before freeing more humans, and possably a machine civil war over the matter.

Thats BS. They were opposites.

Raistath wrote:

I don't think Smtih was ever Neo's opposite. I think The Oracle was just leading Neo on again.

that's not necessarily true. we may be tying threads together here, but maybe Smith became Neo's opposite through machinations of the Oracle and her cookies. *L*

Raistath wrote:

I mean, for something to be mathematicly, or even in power an opposite, it must also be an equal. Smith was way way way more powerfull then Neo, how can he possibly be a negative?

as for Smith and Neo's opposition, someone else brilliantly stated where Neo was the One, Smith was the Many. that seems opposite enough to me. aaaand, Smith wasn't way, way more powerful than Neo. the only reason that Smith "won" in the end is because Neo finally understood what he needed to do in order to overcome Smith. if he hadn't, they would have continued to fight to a standstill.

Splinterinyourmind wrote:

Let me refrase. In man's small, unintelligent mind, the opposite of a male is a female. Smith and Neo are opposites. So why are they both male?

"a mans small,unintelligent mind"...hahaha

remind me again...what are all the smartest scientists and shrewdest buisness men and greatest politicians

oh thats right

they were and are ALL men

Splinterinyourmind wrote:

Let me refrase. In man's small, unintelligent mind, the opposite of a male is a female. Smith and Neo are opposites. So why are they both male?

A lot of arch-enemies are defined in terms of the same gender. Off the top of my head, in Christian mythology, God and Satan are defined to be opposites, yet both are personified as male.

the anomaly wrote:

remind me again...what are all the smartest scientists and shrewdest buisness men and greatest politicians oh thats right they were and are ALL men

That's not a very good argument for saying men are smarter than women. Women can say they're smarter for all the same reasons.

uuummm...no...they cant

stephen hawking/albert einstien/newton/darwin:all men

bill gates and 99.999999% of all big buisness executives:all men

winston churchill/nelson mandela/abraham lincoln:all men

the women get:mother teresa/princess diana/joan of ark...and thats about it

hahaha

Good luck ever trying to get a girl yourself, Anomaly.

JUST FOR THE RECORD: WE ARE NOT ARGUING ABOUT WHICH SEX IS BETTER! IT'S POINTLESS, INMATURE, AND WE'RE NEVER GOING TO GET ANYWHERE. WE ARE NOT GOING TO USE BIBLICAL REFRENCES, AS MANY BIBLES OF ALL DIFFERENT RELIGIONS CONTRIDICT THEMSELVES OVER AND OVER AGAIN (example: There were two beginnings in the Old testament)! OKAY? SO GET OVER "I'M BETTER THAN YOU!" IT'S BULLSHIT!

Raisin (Raistath, do you mind if I call you that? If so, please tell me):
The Oracle said so herself. They are opposites.

Quote:

Neo: Smith. Oracle: *nods* Very soon he's going to have the power to destroy this world, but I believe he won't stop there; he can't. He won't stop until there's nothing left at all. Neo: What is he? Oracle: He is you. Your opposite, your negative, the result of the equation trying to balance itself out.

You can check it out for yourself if you don't believe me:
zionmainframe.net...

MATRIX_MATT- I kind of understand what you are saying about the female Smith, not because it's silly (SEXIST COMMENT IT IS!), but because when you watch the DVD extras in M1, they tell you that their inspiration for Agents (Smith's PREVIOUS job) was the classic detective in the 50's and 20's and stuff (you get the idea). Although there are many women detectives, the stereotype was male, especially with the influence of the Shirlock Holmes books, and Philip Marlo (ect.). So when people think classic detective, they think male. And I guess that was their inspiriation. But you never know, there might be, somewhere in the Matrix, Female Agents, as in some cultures, women are dominant.

Anomaly- When I said "mans" I meant mankind. The Human Race. Not specifically MALES.

Splintey

Splinterinyourmind wrote:

Let me refrase. In man's small, unintelligent mind,

remind me again splintey...who said this quote at the start of this debate

oh thats right ...it was you

reap what you sow my friend...REAP WHAT YOU SOW

Splinterinyourmind wrote:

The Oracle said so herself. They are opposites. Quote: Neo: Smith. Oracle: *nods* Very soon he's going to have the power to destroy this world, but I believe he won't stop there; he can't. He won't stop until there's nothing left at all. Neo: What is he? Oracle: He is you. Your opposite, your negative, the result of the equation trying to balance itself out.

ah, but when is this? i seriously doubt that Smith, as an Agent program, was written as the One's opposite. he only became Neo's opposite after Neo destroyed him.

also, i think the Oracle may be bending the truth a wee bit and telling Neo what she thinks he needs to hear. again, i think that Smith was altered through machinations of the Oracle.

Splinterinyourmind wrote:

Good luck ever trying to get a girl yourself, Anomaly.

you trying to say that women cant handle the truth?...actually...dont answer that

hahaha

as the saying goes

"I LOVE MY WOMEN LIKE I LOVE MY COFFEE....GROUND UP AND IN THE FREEZER"

hahaha

Grendey, believe what you want. The fact remains that no one has proven that the Oracle has lied or bent the truth (perception = truth). And she just did flat out say it.

Anomaly. You miss the point. We don't CARE! That's not what we're even discussing. You can believe whatever the hell you want.

Splintey

does anybody on this forum have a sense of dark humour?

anybody at all?

the thread itself is utterly pointless

"should smith have been a woman"

because he is neo's opposite

you say its because thats the way mankind thinks

yet the one who said smith and neo were opposites was a programme and so was smith

so they wouldnt even think with "a man's small and unintelligent mind" anyway

the anomaly wrote:

does anybody on this forum have a sense of dark humour?

You apparently don't, because you completely missed the point I was making, lol....

Besides, male chauvinism doesn't fall under the category of "dark humor." It falls under "moronic," "outdated," or "tiresome" instead.

please ellaborate on whats chauvanistic about portraying facts

as for the dark humour

what does it have to do your completely humourless post

Tiefling wrote:

Besides, male chauvinism doesn't fall under the category of "dark humor." It falls under "moronic," "outdated," or "tiresome" instead.

so its wrong for me to respond to the obviously and deliberately offensive

"man's small unintelligent mind"

of course it must be chauvanism when i retort but the statement above is the oh so politically fashionable femensim so its ok to insult men and not expect a response

anyway...as much fun as this lively debate has been...its time to move on to threads a new

Splinterinyourmind wrote:

Grendey, believe what you want. The fact remains that no one has proven that the Oracle has lied or bent the truth (perception = truth). And she just did flat out say it.

the Oracle is notorious for telling people what she thinks they need to hear. Neo was the One. maybe he didn't believe it yet, but he was it.

refresh my memory, what did the Oracle tell him?

the anomaly wrote:

so its wrong for me to respond to the obviously and deliberately offensive "man's small unintelligent mind" of course it must be chauvanism when i retort but the statement above is the oh so politically fashionable femensim so its ok to insult men and not expect a response

lol, unless I'm mistaken, Splintey was referring to all of humankind when he used the word "man". You need to lighten up, anomaly. It wasn't a jab at your gender.

Splinterinyourmind wrote:

Grendey, believe what you want. The fact remains that no one has proven that the Oracle has lied or bent the truth (perception = truth). And she just did flat out say it.

But does opposite necessarily mean physical opposite? I mean, Smith and Neo were both brunettes and both caucasians. Similar build, similar height. Both wore sunglasses, . If the Oracle should be translated as having meant physical opposites, shouldn't Neo have been dark-skinned? Or maybe Smith should have been a blonde?

Tiefling wrote:

the anomaly wrote: so its wrong for me to respond to the obviously and deliberately offensive "man's small unintelligent mind" of course it must be chauvanism when i retort but the statement above is the oh so politically fashionable femensim so its ok to insult men and not expect a response lol, unless I'm mistaken, Splintey was referring to all of humankind when he used the word "man". You need to lighten up, anomaly. It wasn't a jab at your gender.

oh well...the debate was still fun though eh?

hahaha

Grendelvs wrote:

refresh my memory, what did the Oracle tell him?

OK, she told him

"No one can tell you that you are the one".

And when he said "I'm not the one"

She said "I'm sorry kid" - Sorry that he didn't beleive in himself yet perhaps?

I don't recall her ever saying "You are not the one"

So lets have no more of this "she lied when she said he wasn't the one" it simply wasn't in the film that I saw.

the anomaly wrote:

"I LOVE MY WOMEN LIKE I LOVE MY COFFEE....GROUND UP AND IN THE FREEZER"

Not heard that one before

Quote:

Oracle: Okay. Now I'm supposed to say, 'Mmm, that's interesting, but -', then you say - Neo: But what? Oracle: But you already know what I'm going to tell you. Neo: I'm not the One. Oracle: Sorry kid. You got the gift, but it looks like you're waiting for something. Neo: What? Oracle: Your next life maybe, who knows? That's the way these things go.

The irony behind that exchange was that Neo didn't become the One per se until after Smith killed him. So he was waiting until his 'next life.'

Tiefling wrote:

If the Oracle should be translated as having meant physical opposites, shouldn't Neo have been dark-skinned? Or maybe Smith should have been a blonde?

OK, what about.

Disabled to counter Neos non-disabled status
Invisible to counter Neos Visible nature
Gay to counter Neos Straightness
Fat to counter Neos Thinness
Parent to counter Neos lack of offspring

Smith the Fat, Gay, Invisible, Disabled, Parent Agent.

He's bound to get top dollar in the benefits queue.


Apart from him being dead in much the same way that Neo isn't