»Sati's purpose«

There has been SO much talk about Sati and Sati's purpose. Truly Sati seems to be one of the most important people in Revolutions but she's not on screen very much. This creates a lot of questions about her. Before I begin explaining Sati's purpose we must establish a few points...


I am of the opinion that EVERYTHING that we need to know to udnerstand the Matrix has been provided in the triology, game or Animatrix (this does at times require some research on our part, such as my discovering Sati's purpose).

IF theories or ideas contradict other things within the dialog they cannot be accepted as true (you can make any assertion, but for ME to believe it it must be in complete alignment with what the Brothers have said).

The Brothers are very much concerned with semantics, this is evident not only in their wide use of vocabulary (the Architect) but in their subtle use of word definitions. In other words, sometimes our most common use or udnerstanding of a word isn't always the one the Brothers mean.

The driving force to understanding the complexities of the story of the Matrix (character relationships, purposes, etc) is Allusion. Allusion is a reference to ANYTHING outside of the story itself. For example, Rama-Kandra...Rama is an incarnation of Vishnu...whereas Brahma is the creator, Shiva the destroyer, Vishnu is the preserver. Rama being the preserver is a direct implication of his job...he is the systems manager for recycling at the power plant...this is also a reason he arranges to preserve Sati's life.

Through Allusion the Brothers tell us everything we need to know about a character, their attributes, etc...

That said, let's begin..

To deal with some theories floating around about Sati... a lot of people are attached to the idea that because her avatar is a child she ehrself is young. There is no foundation forthis in the Matrix. For example, the Merovingian is one of the oldest programs, yet his avatar is younger than the Oracle (both of them, the actorsthat is) and the Architect. Age of a program has nothing to do with their representation as an avatar.

It has also been suggested that Sati "was born without a purpose"...there is even LESS foundation for this. The Oracle AND Rama-Kandra both tell us that EVERY program created MUST have a purpose. The Matrix is a system and systems have rules (this is said throught the trilogy) and those rules must be followed. A computer has no programs that don't do something and programmers don't make programs that don't do things. Programs in the Matrix have better things to do, like see to their purpose. No, Sati was created with a purpose, all programs are. This is often linked to the idea that she has no parameters...there is no foundation for this at all...she controlls the sunrise...this doesn't mean she has NO parameters. Maybe their a part of her parameters? We'll see...

So what do we know about Sati?

In both the ETM and Revolutions we are told that Rama-Kandra arranged to have her smuggled into the Matrix. If he was doing this he must have had foreknowledge of her impending deleting...hmmm...how?
In ETM we are told that the oracle sacrificed becuase she feels that Sati will one day change "both our worlds."
Sati knows Neo's name. While this in itself might not be significant, it begs the question...how? Serif didn't know Neo was Neo, that's why he fought him.
Sati is "still" very curious. Whilst our initial responce is that she's young and hasn't outgrown her youthful curiosity...the word "still" also means to remain, esentially R-K is saying "She remains very curious."
She has an ability to control..well, we're not entirely sure at this point (once it is revealed WHO Sati is, it will be clear what she controlls).
And as stated before she is a Child, or at least her avatar is.

So WHO is Sati as applies to the story of the Matrix? It is my assertion that she is the "Mother" of the Matrix. Of course, I will provide evidence...

The Architect tells us a few things about the "mother" of the Matrix. She is a "lesser" mind and she was a program originally designed to study human behavior. So, whoever the "Mother" is, she is a program who's purpose is to study human behavior. in responce to this Neo replies "The Oracle." And he is promptly retorted by the Architect's "Please." Please is a puzzling word, even in this contect itcan have a few different implications. Perhaps his dislike of the Oracle, possible...maybe Neo use of the word Oracle. Oracle, however, IS her name, it ishow she is identified as a program...we learn this from R-K. So this can't be the explaination. This please could also be indicitive of something like a "come on, you don't know what you're talking about" which is reenforced by the Architect getting right back on track "anyway, as I was saying..." I feel that the intention of "please" isthis last one. So the Architect tells us the Oracle isn't the "mother." This is a difficult idea to shake because the Oracle does have many nurturing qualities and Smith specifically calls her "mom" (this is a topic I and a colligue are still disecting). There is no indication that the Oracle is the "mother" of the Matrix.

In the conversation with the Architect Neo chooses the "wrong" door...the door that will result in a cataclismic system failure killing everyone plugged in to the Matrix, combind with the attack on Zion will result in the death of the entire human race. This poses a problem if you're a program who's purpose is to study human behaviour...what's your purpose now? hmmmm... also in this conversation the Architect says "we already know what you're going to choose." Who is this we? I feel that it is he and the mother in question. She studies human behavior, so she would be able to see the pattern of Neo's attachment to Trinity. It is thiseforeknowledge that would allow R-K to arrange for Sati's smuggling into the Matrix...Sati undoubtedly told daddy what was going to happen, and the preserver had to function within his parameters.

In Mobile Ave. the only other people there (besides Neo) are all Indian and Rama-Kandra speaks of Hindu theology (Karma). As previously discussed Rama-Kandra is an incarnation of Vishnu, Kamala is also an incarnation of a Hindu Goddess...so what about Sati? As it happens Sati is not only present in Hindu mythology but also in Egyptian mythology.

We will address the Egyptian aspect first...Sati, in Egyptian mythology is the goddess of the "lower heaven" also known as the sky. This explains why she is able to controll the rain and the sunrise. It is not becuase she is a program without parameters, it is WELL within her parameters to do so. Simple enough...

The most profound come in Hindu mythology. Here, Sati is...ready? The Great MOTHER Goddess...Sati's name is a strict indication of her purpose as the mother of the Matrix. She is a child, a "lesser" mind...in Hindu mythology Sati remaind a child until she was married (so far as anyone knows she hasn't been married in the Matrix, so she remains in her child form). Childishness would also accomidate her being curious. her being the Mother of the Matrix might tell why she knows Neo's name.

It is a great example of the Brotehrs use of significant names...so to wrap up...

Sati is the intuitive program originally designed to study human behavior, as a studier of human behavior she knew Neo would choose the door he did, because of this R-K wasable to make provisions for her to gain passage toe the Matrix. Sati HAD a purpose, but with the impending destruction of the human race she was facing deletion...

EVERY program MUST have a purpose...

It's almost too simple..Sati is the Mother of the Matrix...

What it is that she will do that will impact "both our worlds" is still being explored.

This theory, I must say, was first explored by my colligue, ifollowed it up with the research...together the above has come to be.

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I am of the opinion that EVERYTHING that we need to know to udnerstand the Matrix has been provided in the triology, game or Animatrix

I completely agree with you. Exactly, the W-Brothers wouldn't leave us hanging after they put all that effort into it!

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To deal with some theories floating around about Sati... a lot of people are attached to the idea that because her avatar is a child she ehrself is young.

VERY INTERESTING! I admit, I am guilty of that. But I am inferring that she is younger than Rama Kandra and his wife, being that she is their daughter.

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There is no indication that the Oracle is the "mother" of the Matrix.

This topic of the Architect's "Please..." has been argued into the ground, and I am convinced that no one can be swayed either way, and it is all up to personal interpretation. I am one who believes that the Please means, Oracle is far too proper of a name to give a simple program...

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Who is this we?

He has a mouse in his pocket, lol. But really, notice Smith also says "We know who is going to win." Could this be Smith and the Oracle? Hmmm....I am thinking that the W-Bros could have done this for a reason as well.

It seems like all of your theory makes sense, exluding the loop-hole when Smith calls the Oracle Mom. Tell me what you have to say on that. And this colleague you speak of, are you Matrix buffs?

My colliguge and I are uber matrix geeks...we kind of piss people off sometimes when we have dinner (college students here) and go right into matrix discussions. We have POURED over the movies and the game, not only watching but we've booked marked the scripts and refer to them like a pastor might refer to the bible...yeah...we're BIG geeks...anyway..

R-K would have to be older than Sati, they would need to recyle humans before the solution was discovered. As for kamala...we're still exploring the possabilities of her (for example, why does R-K make the point to say "she is very crerative", there are MANY authors with the name Kamala, perhaps it is an allusion to all these authors, a lot of creativity...we're still exploring, as I said).

As for the "Smith variable" as we've been calling him...the things we're trying to find out...the msot important, WHY is Smith different this time? He's been around a while, this is evident in the short conversation he has with Seraph (I've beatten you before)...WHEN? We're still really trying to figure out Smith.

Either way all the evidance points to Sati as the mother of the Matrix...

The possability of Smith calling the Oracle mom has to do with...aww shit I really don't know. Eric and I haven't been able to formulate anything we can agree on and that lies within the cannon of the Brotehers.

We have some other theories about the One...a cookie theory of my own that hasn't been stated anywhere that I've found and a theory as to what happened when neo seperated his mind from his body (though not HOW it happened)...

There's still a lot we're working out...

I've seen a lot of people refer to the Oracle as the intuative program...there's never any indication of this anywhere in the epic (epic here to mean ETM, the trilogy and animatrix).

While we're talking about cannon, what is the opinion of the poster-junkies of the comics? I'm half tempted to accept them as cannon, but there are some thigns that just seem plain stupid when it comes to the matrix story...for example, in the comic about geoffrey...with the whole break thing...I can buy it all except for the whole lamps to produce simulated sunlight so that the humans can still get vitamin D...

Vitamin D is an easily sythesized vitamin...it's in milk for crying out loud...the machines could easily sythesize it...if they can clone humans...

I haven't read any other yet, but I'm a little sceptical...I have a hard time believing though that the Brothers would allow non-cannonical things to seep into THEIR story...

ah well

sati is the fullfilment of the (false)prophecy

initially the prophect was written as a way to control neo and ihs predeccessors

this worked for several versions of the matrix

but not for the version with neo

neo is the person who contains the "anomaly" code that is inherent to the programming of the matrix...this means that the code was created and inserted into a human in order to improve the matrix from the version that failed

but it was not perfectly balanced

like a number on a calculator that ends in 9.99999999....neo's code was written to round that unending number up so that it could exist in the real world for the creation of the matrix

like a calculator,the machines were unable to round the number up so they needed the "free from logic" mind of a human to round it

unfortunately the placing of the code into a human rendered them exempt from the rules of the system as per neo's abilities

the agents were initially designed to control this "anomaly" but were unsuccessful due to them being bound by the rules of the system

the oracle them came up with the idea that the anomaly could be guided back to the source for dissemination when it became a threat due to the information it gathered throughout its time inside the human

so the prophecy was written which is as simple as this

"you have special powers because you are the saviour of the human race,,,to save them you must go to the source"

this is what the oracle tells neo because this is her purpose...to control the anomaly code

the problem lies in the fact that the oracle recognised that this version of the matrix was different from previous verions...

she thought this was due to neo's love for trinity and so she thought that neo was beginning to fullfill the prophecy that she made up...hence she says to neo..."youve made a beleiver out of me kid"...in reloaded

but as she said in enter the matrix..."even i cant see beyond the end"

what this implies is that she cant see beyond the end of the 6th cycle of the matrix

it is only after the rebooting of the matrix that sati's power s shown

sati can "change the matrix as she sees fit" as per the prophecy

the oracles new purpose is to make sure thar sati does not destroy the matrix as per the prophecy and restart the war with the humans and machines

she knew in reloaded/enter the matrix that..." the child is important...i dont know how but i believe that the child will change both our world and your world forever"

some argue that she was given the purpose to change the sunset...but i say that there is no evidence given for that conclusion and if she was given a purpose then why would she not go back to the machine world as she would have no fear of deletion

everybody knows my opinion and they rubbish it

but i only interpret what was in the films to guess the events after revolutions

others make up stuff that was never seen in revolutions/reloaded to fit theories which contradict mine

anyway...im drunk so im off

see you guys later

jamesWI

you state that sati initially had a purpose to change the sunrise

this is flawed

we discovered that n reloaded there was already a programme to

"watch over the birds,the trees,the wind,sunrise and sunset"

sati was created by kamala khandra as she is "very creative"

if she had a purpose then at the end of revolutions to change the sunset then she would nor need to be with the oracle...she surely would have returned to the machine world...

after all...."those who have a purpose...those doing what they are supposed to be doing are invisible"

there is no evidence in the film that sati ever had a purpose and so her abilities to change the sunset give her the characteristics that neo never had

"to change whatever he wanted...to remake the matrix as he saw fit"

Sati's controll over the sky is integral to her name...the Brothers chose her because of her role in Egyptian mythology. I never said her purpose changed, i said her purpose faild to be be (provided that the human race HAD been destroyed). There is NO indication that Sati can change whatever she wants, instead this is within her parameters as Sati (the mother goddess and the goddess of the lower heaven). Also, just ebcause the Oracle makes reference to a program to control the sun rise and sun set bears no indication that it's not Sati.

While I agree that the prophecy IS a system of control it IS based in the truth of the situation...and that truth is that THE ONE could change things as he saw fit...

ALL evidence points to Sati as the mother of the Matrix, if you have some substantial retorte that is different, you really give no evidance for anything you've stated.

Also, there IS indication that Sati had a purpose...

EVERY PROGRAM THAT IS CREATED MUST HAVE A PURPOSE

...this is stated ALL OVER the place in the movies...


And again I say, the matrix is a system, that system has rules and it MUST follow those rules...those are its parameters...and the rule sof the Matrix state that every program MUST have a purpose...

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ALL evidence points to Sati as the mother of the Matrix, if you have some substantial retorte that is different, you really give no evidance for anything you've stated.

Talk to me when you come up with a Smith calling the Oracle Mom solution. When you do that, I can start to believe you. But until then, the Oracle is the mother of the matrix.

I'm sure eventually we'll stumble on the solution...

It amazing how much evidence is being overlooked.

Smith calls the Oracle "mom" butI provide so much otehr evidence that points to Sati...

Astounding...

There could be any number of explainations for the Smith mother comment, until we know for sure the relationship Smith had with the Oracle and Seraph (which is indicated in Revolutions) we'll never really know what he meant by it. Even so, I don't think one comment from Smith poses reasonable doubt.

But hey, I'm not here to make you guys believe me... I just know I'm one up on thsoe who don't believe me.

If you think about it...if the Oracle WERE the mother of the Matrix then she's also an intuitive program meant to study human behavior...if all humans were going to be whipped out it would leave her without a purpose and the Oracle would be facing deletion...as it happens the Oracle isn't facing deletion. Nor is any other female program in the Matrix...Sati is the only one facing deletion...

It more than makes perfect sense to me...

Especially considering the names...there is nothing motherly about the name "Oracle"...IF she were the mother of the Matrix then given the Brothers character structure and name significance there should be some matriarcle indications to her name. The ONLY female program with ANY implication of motherhood is Sati, the great mother goddess...

I guess you guys don't believe in allusion in the Matrix though...

I am in complete aggrement with what "the anomaly" said. At the end of M3 we see code wash over Sati, is this the Anomly code from Neo? Yes i believe it is. The reason why i say this because Neo never wen the the Source, The Anomoly code was trapped inside the Matrix. Sati who i believe to be the next One was given the Anomly code straight away.

The reason why i say this is because just like "the anomaly", in Reloaded we find out from the Orical that there are programs for the birds, wind, sunrise etc. So Sati changing the sky from a dark cloudy sky to a beautiful sunrise was the Matrix being changed.

Also like "the anomaly" said the Orical controls the One, hence why the orical is looking after Sati?

Perhaps it's actually something as simple as the Oracle is the one who wrote the Smith program. Much the same way Sati was written by her parents Rama-Kandra and Kamala. The Architect calls himself the father and refers to a "mother" figuratively. Whatever the mother of the Matrix accomplished had no impact on the other programs, only the humans in the Matrix and the creation of the anomily. So what would that make Smith call the oracle "mom" even if she were the Mother of the Matrix? Doesn't make sense. Logic people, logic...

I don't see Smith calling the oracle mom as throwing a wrench in my whole theory, my theory still easily stands. Whatever caused Smith to call the oracle mom is a seperate entity and has its own explaination.

"The one" is "A man born inside the Martix" who freed the first of the humans and taught them thr truth. How will a program free humans?

There's absolutly no foundation in the cannon for Sati being the next one. Show it to me? in dialog? If it's to be considered as a valid theory there has to be some foundation for it given by the brothers...they give no such indication...

Sati being the next one is simply not a valid theory. Show me evidence in the movies for it.

JamesWI - If the Oracle is not the mother, then what is she? (Just so I can get more of an idea of where you're coming from) I do think that Smith calling the Oracle mom throws some doubt on your theory, but I will admit that all of your evidence is VERY convincing and well-researched.

The Oracle tells us what her purpose is. To unbalance the equasion. She is probably part of a system of control set up by the machines to facilitate the purpose of the one. There is some evidence for this in the definition of "oracle"...

Also, there's never ANY indication that Sati is the next one. infact a few things have to be explained if she IS supposed to bethe next One.

First of all, why is she facing deltion BEFORE Neo reaches the Architect. We know she knows she's going to be deleted because Rama-Kandra arranges for her to be smuggled. Why would there be another One in the works before the first (or 6th) has accomplished his purpose? There wouldn't.

Also there is NO suggestion in the movies that the One can be a program...it's nice conjecture, but give me proof from the trilogy. We are infact told who the One is "a man born inside"...not a program.

As for the code washing over Sati...that'll have to wait till next week when I'm back on my computer and can watch it. However, this IS the Matrix reloading. If we want to get into a discussion of my cookie theory then perhaps we can better understand the program that IS the One.

I completely agree that Sati is not the next one. I'll elaborate on your post in a while, I don't have time now.

JamesWI:

That's an interesting theory about Sati.
Smith calling the Oracle 'mom' could be explainable...

The Oracle is the 'leader' of the Prophecy-system.
The agents are needed in the path of the rebels and the One in order to influence them/him.
They are part of the make-believe-they-are-fighting-against-something-and-fighting-for-something-scenario.
The Oracle could have invented the idea of the agents. She has the ability to write programs I think, but nonetheless she let the Architect code them. Because they look much more to the image of the Architect: cold and efficient.

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I am in complete aggrement with what "the anomaly" said. At the end of M3 we see code wash over Sati, is this the Anomly code from Neo? Yes i believe it is. The reason why i say this because Neo never wen the the Source, The Anomoly code was trapped inside the Matrix. Sati who i believe to be the next One was given the Anomly code straight away.

That's a very interesting theory I never thought of. We never did exactly see Neo surrender his anomaly-code. He had that chance when he was inside the 'software-part' of the Source; he refused. We only see that the Source uses Neo's body/mind to get Smith.
Neo died afterwards, so the anomaly code was still not solved from the Matrix. They assigned it to Sati. Neo could never really change the Matrix; he could only bend the rules and influence certain objects. But when a program with writing/compiling qualities gets assigned with the anomaly-code, it can re-write parts of the Matrix. With Sati, and her protection by the Oracle and Seraph, the code is safely contained within the Matrix.
No new equation has to be unleashed and the Zionists can co-exist peacefully with the machines without the becoming of a new human-anomaly.

I think the Oracle saying (in ETM) that Sati is going to be important some day for both worlds has to do with the evolving of the programs. As far as I know the deal was only for the humans, not for programs which want free will. I think someday Sati will become 'the One' to arrange something for the programs who want to be free.

But Sati doesn't HAVE the ability to change anything she wants. She changes things in the sky and as dicussed those are within her parameters...as I established Sati is not only the great mother goddess but also the goddess of the sky (lower heaven). This would put her changing the sunrise well within her parameters, ithas nothing to do with her being able to change anything. That's the whole significance of her name...the Brotehers worked her dual mythological presence (if you will) into her attributes as a program.

There really is NO concrete evidence that she can change ANYTHING she wants in the Matrix...if this were true, when Smith took her over he could have done a lot worse to the Matrix than just make it rain. Smith with the ability to change anything would be MORE than devestating to the system. I think we can all agree that this is evidence for limitations on Sati...

As for the Oracle, yes I agree, she is part of the prophecy system of control, exactly what i said and I agree she has the ability to creat programs, absolutly. But nothing points to her as the mother of the MATRIX...she's simply the driving force in the One accomplishing his purpose.

As for the quote in ETM...an interesting characteristic about the Hindu goddess Sati...she accomplished MORE through her death than she did in life. Perhaps her "death" is representative of her exile. This is of course speculation, for now...perhaps it will make sense the more Eric and I disect the complex character relationships.

Let it be said clearly that I believe the Brotehrs used the character names they did becuase they accomplished the allusion they desired. They needed a character name that is an allusion to a mother, they found the name Sati, but they also found that Sati is also the goddess of the sky in Egyptian mythology and put the control of the sky in Sati's parameters as their mother of the Matrix character. Much the same way Rama-Kandra's name means that the only job he COULD have would have to do with preservation...recycling operations...makes perfect sense.

Also, a small thing about Seraph. I read elsewhere that Seraph is short for Seraphim...this is incorrect...it's the SINGULAR of Seraphim...many Seraphim, one Seraph. It is itneresting to note that Seraph says "I proctect that which matters most" In the Angerl hierarchey Seraphim are the gaurdians of the throne of God...hmmmm...what does this mean exactly to the Matrix...we're not entirely sure...but I think it's significant to point out that Seraphim ar ethe gaurds of God's throne...

Also about the Merovigian (in general, not the character)...they claim to be the descendants of Christ (this has been stated elsewhere), but they were also strongly tied with gaurding the holy grail...(I haven't read that elsewhere yet, it may be there, so i don't take credit for discovering it or anything...)

Also...in Christian theology Jesus was 100% man and 100% God, at the same time. It was stated elsewhere that Jesus was 50% of both. Just a matter of straightening out some facts...

But yes, Sati Istill hold to as the Mother...it makes complete sense.

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There really is NO concrete evidence that she can change ANYTHING she wants in the Matrix...if this were true, when Smith took her over he could have done a lot worse to the Matrix than just make it rain. Smith with the ability to change anything would be MORE than devestating to the system. I think we can all agree that this is evidence for limitations on Sati...

She only gets asigned the anomaly-code after Neo's and Smith's death offcourse. So at Smith's time she had not yet the power to re-design parts of the Matrix.
Smith himself cannot write anything. He is a program with lower authority. If he wants to change something in the Matrix he has to contact the Architect (like he did in M1).

Smith creating bad weather and thunder might indeed suggest he his doing this through the Sati-smith. But if Sati is the mother then she has two purposes? Investigating the human psyche by her curiosity (which makes sense; children are very honest. And if humans talk with children alone they often tend to be honest too) and controlling the weather?
Why does she have to be deleted if she still has the purpose of controlling the weather?

Either she got the anomaly-code asigned or she got a new purpose from the machines in order to 'thank' her for influencing Neo to go to the Machine City. I can think of nothing else.

Programs have thigns within their parameters that are not their purpose. Sati's purpose isn't to control the sky, but it's within her parameters. Sati's purpose isn't to be the mother of the matrix either...but she pulled that off. There's a difference between parameters and purpose.

We don't know that Smith ever contacted the Architect, he himself doesn't know why he wasn't destroyed as he should be.

As covered, Sati is being deleted because her purpose was the study of human behavioor, with humans impending destruction she wouldn't have a purpose, but she would still have things within her parmaters. Like all the other exiles, she has things she can do that have nothing to do with her purpose. Don't forget she's in the matrix to begin with because she doesn't have a purpose. Her ability to control the skly wasn't new, it was there all along in her parameters as suggested by the significance of her name.

Also, effectively, programs cannot be altered oncethey are created, especially exiled ones. Within the matrix they are out of the reach of the source. So, even if the one code were inserted back into the Matrix it wouldn't been inserted into Sati, she's out of the systems reach. For example, when we have the upgraded Agents they aren't the original, they're entirely new Agents.

We also don't KNOW what the anomaly code looks like. If i remember correctly the code that "washes" over Sati looks just like the Matrix code...I'm fairly certain that the code ONLY washes over the cat...not Sati... so she's unaffected by the Code. I'll have to double check.

How does Sati influence Neo to go to the machine City? The Oracle said "you know where." not "you've been told where." That's an interesting part of the Moble Ave scene..."you got yourself in here, you can get yourself out" and then he closes his eyes and sees the machine city "source".,..maybe if the train hadn't come to get him he'd of been able to get out through the source? not sure...

The code of the anomily has to be carried by a human... "the amonily" "do we proceed" "yes, he is still" "only HUMAN"

I think Sati's importance to come will have something to do with the peace between man and machine...perhaps will find out in the new game...

While i'm discussion incorrect facts... "Deus ex machina" everyone is refering to as "God of the machines" or the machine god...

that's not what the Latin means! The Latin litterally translates to "God FROM machine"

So what does it mean?

Deus ex machina is a dramatic tool. In ancient greek dramas (and operas based on greek ledgends) the Deus ex machina showed up when the plot didn't seem that it could reach resolution without some outside help. Which, oddly enough, is what the Deus ex machina does in the Matrix.

Like in, for example, the ledgend of orpheus in the underworld...Erudece dies and Orpheus goes to the underworld to save her...he's told he can't look at her or talk to her or she will die (how someone dies when they're dead only the greeks know)...Orpheus breaks these rules and she dies again...one would think it's a tragic ending...but Cupid shows up and raises her from the dead...

It's characteristic is that the Deus ex machina comes litterally out of nowhere and helps resolve the conflict that's at a stalemate...which is what happens in the Matrix...NO WHERE in the matrix is there any sort of hint of a deus ex machina, but it shows up out of nowhere right when Neo needs it and he rectifies the conflict through the help of the Deus ex machina...

Just ANOTHER example of the Brother's using the defenition of something to outline it's function in the story.

So, the Deus ex machina has nothing to do with a machine god. I imagine machines are atheist anyway...

If we want to find the singular conciosness that spawned the race of robots...I think we need to track down something with that implied defenition...maybe someone who's name is an incarnation of Brahma?

At any rate, I don't think it's the Deus ex machina...it's not within the defenition of what it is (defentitions are VERY important to the Brothers...clearly).

This 'lower heaven' could also be the matrix. Just a thought.

In M1, Morpheus tell Neo that in the begining there was a man born inside "the Martix" and he could change the matrix as he saw fit. and was he who freed the first of the humans and taught us the truth."

From what i gathered from watching M3 is that Sati was born inside the Matrix, and as we know she did change the matrix, by changing the sky from drab to glad.

So what if Sati's purpose is not to be the Next One (but i believe it is), but to be like this mysteryious person Morpheus was talking about, were she frees people from the matrix and tell them the truth.

JamesWI wrote:

Programs have thigns within their parameters that are not their purpose. Sati's purpose isn't to control the sky, but it's within her parameters. Sati's purpose isn't to be the mother of the matrix either...but she pulled that off. There's a difference between parameters and purpose.

What would be the use of giving her that parameters? In order to see people's psychic reactions on different types of weather? Every program is given enclosed parameters in order to not give them too much power.

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We don't know that Smith ever contacted the Architect, he himself doesn't know why he wasn't destroyed as he should be.

It is suggested in M1; in the interrogation-room where they change Neo's mouth.

He isn't destroyed because he chose not to go back to the Source. He cannot be harmed within the Matrix because he is a sub-program/child process. You cannot kill such a program without killing the main program (which is the Matrix).

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Also, effectively, programs cannot be altered oncethey are created, especially exiled ones. Within the matrix they are out of the reach of the source. So, even if the one code were inserted back into the Matrix it wouldn't been inserted into Sati, she's out of the systems reach. For example, when we have the upgraded Agents they aren't the original, they're entirely new Agents.

I agree 100%. But it's not altering her I think. The anomaly-code is part of the equation. Maybe they just make her part of the equation? She's some kind of mix between humans and machines. She is created out of love, but yet she is a program. It could symbolize the new peace-deal...just a thought.
So instead of deleting her, they make her part of the (human) equation as a peace-keeper.

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How does Sati influence Neo to go to the machine City?

Well thanks to her (and her parents) he understands that programs have evolved too and are not all 'evil' against humans. They maybe made him more open for a peace-deal?

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The Oracle said "you know where." not "you've been told where." That's an interesting part of the Moble Ave scene..."you got yourself in here, you can get yourself out" and then he closes his eyes and sees the machine city "source".,..maybe if the train hadn't come to get him he'd of been able to get out through the source? not sure...

Nice thought. I thought about that too yes.
I am sure he would have pulled it off somehow. Rama and his wife could go in and out of the trainstation too. The train only comes from and goes to the Matrix.
Makes you wonder why Rama didn't tip him on how to get out? Or maybe he could have left the station, but he still needed the hard-line from the Matrix to be uploaded again. If he would have gone to the Source/machine-world he would be lost.

But the double symbolisation of Sati could also be 'just for fun'.
The Merovingian is also many things:
-Claimed descendant of Christ
-Protector of the grail
-Satan/Hades
-A former (negative) One

It just depends on how you CHOOSE to look at him; which is another great aspect of the movies: the problem is choice

The only thing I am difinitvly saying about Sati is that she is the Mother of the Matrix...all implications are her.

As for Sati being the one born in the Matrix that could change things as she sees fit...there is no direct implication of this. If you choose to impose this understanding on ehr ability to effect the sky, that's your unsubstantiated perogative.

There is NO indication whatsoever that Sati's purpose is to be the next One...show me the evidence you've collected from the trilogy, ETM or Animatrix. Plain and simple, if you have no direct support it cannot be possible.

The man born inside is obviously the last one...obviously. it's the whole cyclical thing with the Matrix system of control, it has nothing to do with Sati. Up until Revolutions Sati was hanging out in the Source studying human behavior, she had a purpose. This time is different because Neo chose the "wrong" door, destroying mankind and leaving her without a point. That's why she is facing deletion and must seek exile.

Remember programs go to the Matrix for exile, not because it's their purpose. I hold that all programs within the Matrix are exiles (this is theoretical conjecture at this point, I am still collective evidence). Sati would not be going to the Matrix because it is her purpose. Like Rama said "if you want to get something in the Matrix that does not belong there" he CLEARLY tells us Sati does not belong there. If her purpose is to be the next one, it might actually be that she does belong there. But she doesn't, plain and simple. Also, Sati was not born INSIDE the Matrix...she was born in the machine world, that's where all programs come from...it's clear that she wasn't born IN the Matrix, because that's where she's going.

It was the 5th version of the one that taught people the "truth" (which was a lie to facilitate the prophesy and the good of mankind, the One really enslaved the human race so they would survive). Had Neo chosen the other door it would be him teaching "the first of us the truth."

We're still sorting out all the details of the merovingian and the merovingians...we're slowly getting closer toa solution, but for now I cannot state clearly what I believe about he and his purpose.

Eric and I have been toying with a theory of a war between programs...it's implied in the first matrix when Agent Smith is interrogating Morpheus and he's telling about the Matrix and he says "there were those who believed we did not prosess the programming launguage to describe your "perfect" world." it is thought that perhaps this caused a war among programs much like the war of angels in the bible (the catholic version). This would imply that the mero, all his minions, the Oracle, etc are all outcasts from "heaven" for their revolt against the "powers that be"...again this is just theory at this point...it is implied...

It is interesting that the Mero controls the Matrix like a mafia boss...kind of like our earth is satans playground (talked about in the bible).

Sati's name symbolism could be just for fun...but I doubt the Brotehrs put things in just for fun (except like the old west show down noises and news paper blowing stuff)...Sati's name clearly facilitates what the Brotehrs do with her in the story.

It's interesting about neo's mind/body seperation...he appearntly didn't need a hard line to get in now did he? Eric and i are still working on this too...which brings me to a question about ETM...when you play as Ghost you spar Trin...they appearntly go into a smaller version of the construct? But they're not "plugged" into it...anyone know what that's all about?

Rama says though that they can't go into the matrix, because the deal was only for their daughter. However, they get there somehow don't they? becuase he consults the oracle and strikes a deal with mero...perhaps there are different channels of passage for permenant entrance and just visiting the matrix (like a green card?).

I think thought, what it comes down to is, the Brothers would have said "you got yourself in here, you can get yourself out" if he couldn't actually get himself out.

It is possible that his encounter with the Hindu gods a three made him realize that peace was a possability...infact i would very easily buy that. It's a very probable explaination.

They couldn't delete Sati if they wanted too, she's out of their sphere of power...an Agent would have to track her down. So they don't have a choice as to whether or not they're going to leave Sati there...she's there, for better or worse.

Smith says he knew the rules he understood what he was supposed to do...but he was COMPELLED to stay...it wasn't his choice to stay...he says that to neo "we're not here beacuse we're free, we're here because we're not free." I think Smith was compelled to stay because he had to facilitate something to do with the path o the One. We're still working on that as well.

I actually think that the Anomaly code is in the posession of the Oracle..that goes back to my whole cookie theory...whenever you guys want to hear that let me know...it plays into what happeend when Neo seperated his mind from his body as well (that part of the theory has is new and has some bugs that might need worked out, so maybe you guys can help me with that).

The interrogation scene is a very puzzling scene...HOW and WHO changed Neo's mouth? I think there's an explaination...just not sure what it is. Now that I think about it the Agents are in contact with SOMEONE...they have those ear pieces...but is it the Architect on the other end? hmm...?

Maybe Sati's parameter or sky control has to do with WHO created her...in the conversation in Mobile ave. Rama introduces himself and says his job, plain and simple...however when he introduces his wife he says "she is very creative" I have recently been wondering the significance of that. Rama could have easily just said what her job is. maybe it's kamalas creativity that gave Sati the sky control parameter. Programs that make programs can give their creations parameters...just like the mero created the parameters for the orgasm desert. it's not like there's some higher power that says...wait a second you can't make her with that parameter...I don't think this ability has anything to do with the studfy of human behavior...it's simple a consequence of whoshe is (the goddess of lower heaven).

Another correlation that just occured to me...in the old testement story about Noahs flood, after the flood God puts a rainbow in the sky for the first time...this is God's symbol of His promise that he will never again destroy the world with water...it has been suggested, and I believe, that in the Matrix the sky has been either rainy or drabby grey at best, never a beautiful sky...IF there is a symbol regarding the new peace between men and machines i think it would be the beautiful sunrise...not Sati's existence. Why would a program that existed before the peace agreement be a symbol of the peace agreement? it's after the fact and doesn't make sense.

There might be a possability that until Sati reached the matrix that she had not realized her power of sky control...just a possability, there's really no concrete evidence for this either...

I'm simply statig that Sati is the Mother of the matrix...however this has raised a lot of itneresting discussion...

have I left any doubt of who Sati is?