»Residual Self Image (MatrixArchitect's Theory)«

This thread is all about residual self image, specificly

1.) -->if it is controlled by the machines
2.) -->if it is controlled by the mind (You have to have seen yourself at least once to project what you look like.
3.) -->if it is controlled by DNA (your DNA defines what you look like)


I already have a theory (AND EVIDENCE THAT CAN'T BE OVERLOOKED), that relies on one of the possibilities above, but please, let me hear your thoughts first ...

i think that the answer is BOTH. 1&2
DNA i dont think would have anything to do with a "machine binary code"

It has to be both, cause if its a "SELF" image then it suggests that your person "outside" of the matrix would look like them.

Now, on the OTHER hand its put together into code and displayed off of what your MIND thinks/remembers it was "in the real world"
(which explains the Zion people looking the same in the matrix)

Now for the people who have YET to see themself in the "real world?"
it is a representation that is GIVEN to them based off the personage in the "fields"- (the machines that plug them into the tubes can see them)

Thank you for postig in this thread!

I agree with you, as do many (I presume). This would mean that male sperm and female egg IS collected and Fertalised and the planted on a pod in the Field. ( I agree with this too)

I think that you agree that RSI is not created or modified by the machines, and because the offspring - desendants look alot like their parents, there is no other explanation.

I am glad you agree

Quote:

I think that you agree that RSI is not created or modified by the machines, and because the offspring - desendants look alot like their parents, there is no other explanation.

i think each "mr andersons" IS "modified only because his "genetic code" is modified as well.

meaning that its the reason why each NEO or "the one" looks the same as the others, cause hes "grown" and not "born"

which allows them to "manipulate" the process.

there is no reason to manipulate any OTHER people though.
(i.e. theres no "purpose" to do so)

although the question remains that if "trinity" looks the same. Im gonna say NO cause i think that the other "love" was for his "species" (or general love)
whereby there is NO other "trinities" that existed.

there are only the MAIN people that continue. (or continue in the process)
1. the oracle
2. the merovingian (and other programs)
3. NEO
4. SMITH

The purpose I created this was to see if anybody disagreed with the theory that ofspring are made from the parents sperm - egg, and not by an others ...

If they used other's, and just changed the ofspring's RSI, then It may be OK in the matrix, but when the "mind" is free, he will have the RSI in the matrix, and other looks out of the matrix.

Quote:

If they used other's, and just changed the ofspring's RSI, then It may be OK in the matrix, but when the "mind" is free, he will have the RSI in the matrix, and other looks out of the matrix

true. and i agree.

but the ONLY difference (execption to the rule) would have to be NEO. (or the other ones) cause theres no reason for him to keep looking the same in the "real world"

his (DNA) is manipulated (to look like the other "ones") During birth thereby manipulating his (RSI)

Although i dont see the point in making ALL of the (ones) the same.

UNLESS the shell MUST be representative of the program.
in other words in order for the program to work (the thing that makes neo dodge bullets) it has to have a "specific" DNA makeup. (in the real world) and ONLY with this matchup can the program connect with its shell.

(which would explain how the program finds its source/neo)

But Neo's appearence in the real world (if there is no MwM) is exacly like in the matrix.

There is counter-proof, but it may be for a reson I will explain -->

If the apperence of someone in the matrix is different than the "real world" the mind makes the "real" body look like the RSI.

Neo in the matrix is a bit different from Neo out of matrix (this could be because of food conditions though, and NOT because he hasn't been compleatly transformed to look like his RSI ...

Quote:

But Neo's appearence in the real world (if there is no MwM) is exacly like in the matrix.

i know, thats what i was getting at.
and it doesnt make sense unless my explanation of the reasons why the other 1's look the same is true.

Quote:

If the apperence of someone in the matrix is different than the "real world" the mind makes the "real" body look like the RSI.

so the theory says what morphues said?
"the mind makes it real"

while that may be true for "pain and death" i dont think its true for "physical appearence" or DNA.

while you can upload programs into a brain, (simulating pain and death) it doesnt change the physical appearnce of the brain.

like if you get cutt in the face in the matrix, you dont wake up with a cutt on your face.
(this is not a nightmare on elm street) (the blood in neo's mind is probably a result of internal bleeding "from mental stress") -or biting his lip.

and if it was ALL controlled by the mind (the mind makes it real) then it eliminates the #1 theory.

True -- The "Mind makes it real" theory was farfeatched

Nobody has Agreed / Disagreed yest, So we can't know if this is Universally the conclusion of this usless theory ...

The residual self-image is just plain-simple a conversion of the person's DNA-structure.
There is no other explanation possible.

They could be cloning Mr. Anderson each time yes. That would explain the "by design"-part of the Architect's speech. But I do not quite believe that.
I think each time the One is another human.
Why would the architect say: "that's quicker than the others". If it would be the same genetics, Neo can never be smarter than the previous Ones.

I think that the "by design"-part just means that only humans with a certain genetic-pattern will be able to become the INTEGRAL anomaly.
Genetic-patterns like: having a sixth sense, being a fighter, being a believer, being kind-harted, being able to hack mathematical structures.

Quote:

Why would the architect say: "that's quicker than the others". If it would be the same genetics, Neo can never be smarter than the previous Ones.

not nessarilly, programs can "improve" or spread (like a virus) and the anomoly could just be "different" than the others ONLY in the fact that the machines dont have TOTAL control over the humans.
(i.e. they cant choose whether or not mr. anderson ate noodles or burger king)

Genetics do NOT dictate choice or DOMINATE someones life.
*they do influence it yes. but thats ALL*
and the machines know this and the "quicker response" is nothing more than that.

things that happend inbetween the beggining and end, in each instance of EACH "the one" (btw the other zions lasted different lengths) does not matter.

choice is irrelevent if the INEVITABLE end is the same. (which is what happend)

Even though only you 2 have agreed / disagreed, I think we have come to the conclusion that RSI is not

a.) The Image a person remebers after seeing himself ( like in the mirror)


b.) The Image the machines give the person after looking at that person e.tc.

c.) A merging of his/her parents' RSI, made by the machines, and copyied to the Brain of the person at birth. (This would mean that the person would look different in/out of the matrix.

>> I think we are right ...

Why not simply suppose that there is a little device in the plugs that somehow can perceive the form of toe face and the body and then communicate it to the brain.
Machines didn't know what to do to make the program very real to us, so I guess that they tried to be as close from the reality as possible.

to reply to previous posts,

it is the "software" of the mind, that makes somone learn. Babies could have the exact same "software", but because of conditions, (geographical positions e.t.c) they learned different language, went to school --> learnt to think more widly e.t.c

So, do we have a conclusion ?

I have not understood what you meant with the babies example ? What is the relation with the RSI ?

I have a question : if you eat a lot in the matrix and that you are fat, will you be fat once you get out of it?
I mean, basically all the humans get the same amount of food everyday, why would the machines feed some humans more than other ?

So, to keep the illusion the closest possible to the reality (sorry for my bad english), I think that Apocryphe's proposition would be the most logical. No ? Yes ?

MatrixArchitect wrote:

1.) -->if it is controlled by the machines 2.) -->if it is controlled by the mind (You have to have seen yourself at least once to project what you look like. 3.) -->if it is controlled by DNA (your DNA defines what you look like)

Why couldn't it be a combination of all three, with the original RSI being a computer construct based upon projections of growth from DNA and/or a photographic record taken from routine surveilance of the pods by the machines?

After all, where does body image come from in real life? We assume that we all have one from birth, but that may not be so. I don't have time at the moment to do a proper web search on that topic, but here's an idea.

Maybe we don't have a body image from birth. Maybe it comes into creation only by experience, and when our brains are developed enough to have the capacity for it. Do animals have a body image? I don't know.

But inorder to have a residual Self Image inside The MAtrix, the machines would of had to know that person looked like.

But how would the machines know what the RSI of the baby's being grown in the fields look like inside the Matrix. Do they just guess and hope for the best?

MatrixArchitect wrote:

to reply to previous posts, it is the "software" of the mind, that makes somone learn. Babies could have the exact same "software", but because of conditions, (geographical positions e.t.c) they learned different language, went to school --> learnt to think more widly e.t.c So, do we have a conclusion ?

MatrixArchitect you are right, the mind is like the software of a computer (which is the best way to put it) and your brain is the Hardware.

So basicly the mind is the software which makes who we are. But does are mind control the way we look as well, I know DNA is the code of life, but could the mind contribute to the way the code is created in order for us to look and act the way we do?

From what I know ( I don't do "real" biology for 2 years) DNA stays exacly the same from birth untill death, except if replication, or mutation occurs ...

MatrixArchitect wrote:

From what I know ( I don't do "real" biology for 2 years) DNA stays exacly the same from birth untill death, except if replication, or mutation occurs ...

I was talking more about DNA and the mind through, Computer Science & Evolutionary Psychology. Not from a Biological point of view.

Maze, I answered to the fat question here :

I dont think dna has anything to do with what u look like in the matrix. It is how u see yourself. Everyone knows what they look like. You dont need a mirror to know where your eyes, ur nose, your ears, facial scars or anything like that are. you know because its your face. Thats how it is in the matrix. How could it be a mixture of parental RSI when ur matrix parents may not even be your original parents? I think everyone in the matrix is a clone of a person captured by the machines in the big machines vs. crappy humans war, and the matrix runs a time period(eg 1980-2010) and once it hits 2010 it loops back to the beginning and everyone's mind is reformatted to start over. Everything is made up. I bet if neo or anyone beyond the rules of the matrix tried hard enough, they could make themselves look like anything by thinking or becoming that. The machines cannot define who you are, that includes what you look like. It is how YOUR MIND sees yourself.

The machines capture the image of the different humans plugged into the Matrix and then project their RSI based on that. Simple. End of topic.

The Matrix is always set in 1999.

what about in the construct programs on the Neb? where morpheus first talks about rsi? the machines aren't manipulating that...

Yes you're right. In the constructs the rebels would be able to change their appearances and RSIs to whatever they want but I guess they just dont do it. Why would they want to? I doubt they hate their appearances and they are not hiding from anyone.

But when the rebels hack into the Matrix, they cannot disguise themselves as someone else. There the system is in charge and this is one aspect where the rebels' hacking doesn't go far enough. Perhaps the system will not recognize their user avatars if the rebels changed them, who knows.

An interesting thing is that when the Wachowski's were in the process of M1, they actually thought of putting different actors for the rebels in the real world and what they look like in the Matrix. However they later abandoned that idea.