»the sentinel does NOT fly through the Logos in revoultuions!«

i watched the scene of the sentinel flying thru the Logos and thru neo over and over again using slowmotion: the sentinel actually crashes onto the front of the Logos and "rebounds" (hope that is a correct word, i´m not perfect at english ), while his orange "soul" keeps on flying thru the Logos (that´s why trinity is not astonished by the sentinel flying thru the Logos because she doesn´t see that, she just sees the sentinel "rebounding" from the ship as the other sentinels do and she sees neo shaking around and "gets him").

so it could mean that neo felt the sentinels will or the sentinels soul still wanting to fly forward after/while it died (kind of a postmortal reflex or something?). maybe this scene shall remind the viewer of the fact that machines are "alive" like humans, they got a soul, a ("free") will, emotions (words connected to a meaning) and when they die, they die in a similar way as humans do? they seek to fulfill their purpose until the moment of death.. kind of a tragic scene?

what dou you think about all that? any other interpretations?

Hi,
Yes I know the scene you are talking about. This little SFX shot has confused me for a long time. Your interpretations are good, but I think it has something to do with the orange soul or life force rather than physical interaction. Can anybody else explain?

That scene puzzled me for weeks after I first saw M Rev. I got a copy (VCD) of M3 and saw it. I hadn't noticed it, and probably wouldn't have noticed it.

MwM could expalin this very well ...

You're right. The sentinel's soul/code was absorbed by Neo. Because he is connected to the Source and can sense the machine code, he may also learn from it. Thats what he did. After that scene, he told Trinity to go up, where the sentinels wont reach them.

Are you confused about my response?

It troubles me that the code was transferred through the air (wirelessly?)

Neo can see EM signals (Somebody said that all the gold is the "Matrix signal") That would be a good explanation, but I am not happy with it ....

MatrixArchitect wrote:

It troubles me that the code was transferred through the air (wirelessly?)

I don't think the code would need to be transferred through air.. Neo can sense all things machine because his power is connected to the source, so couldn't the code be transferred directly from reading the source?

Do you really belive what you are saying ?

Quote:

I don't think the code would need to be transferred through air.. Neo can sense all things machine because his power is connected to the source, so couldn't the code be transferred directly from reading the source?

well yes.. bearing in mind that i'm basing it on the explanation the Oracle gave for Neo being able to sense and stop the sentinels in the real world. she tells him that the power of the One extends right back to source where it came from and that's what he felt when he stopped those sentinels.. why is my answer so ourageous? you didn't really explain.

I'm presuming that it is poetic license. Straight after Trinity grabs him, Neo says "there are too many of them". How would you convey visually that Neo's control was being overpowered by the number of sentinels? I'd say they did a pretty good job!

I wasn't offending you "wake up neo", but I was just "pumped up" and exploded, it's not your fault.

Do you want me to edit the post ?



Also, to all in this thread, you have gone OFF TOPIC yet again ....

no you don't have to edit the post, i wasn't offended at all.. i was just looking for some clarification on your opinion..

if i went off topic then i'm sorry, but i thought it was directly addressing a statement you made earlier that relates to the original issue of the much debated scene with the sentinel.. it seemed to me like you were posing a question about the issue of the data being transmitted.. but if you weren't, again, i apologise.

I was pumped, and exploded on you, not your fault.
Did I say you wre off topic?

The thing I disagree about is what the "ghost sentinel" was

wAkE_uP_nEo wrote:

MatrixArchitect wrote: It troubles me that the code was transferred through the air (wirelessly?) I don't think the code would need to be transferred through air.. Neo can sense all things machine because his power is connected to the source, so couldn't the code be transferred directly from reading the source?

The Logos was moveing, the lifeforce/soul just stayed in place perhaps, and neo flew throug it.

that's a nice idea Sagni, remember when Bane got hit in the head with the crowbar, his Smith aura's head blowed up and the fiery code/soul seemed to stay in the air and float upwards.

So elaborating your idea, at the point the Sentinel crashes against the Logos, the machine dies and it's code leaves it's metallic body, it's host, and stays there in midair while the Logos passes through it and Neo feels it alll up.

The problem I guess is the medium, what allows Neo to feel the source and feel the sentinels "fire". When Neo sees Seraph for the first time the medium is of course the Matrix, he can see the golden program and the green code around it. So what is the medium in the real world?

Considering Revolutions, when we see through Neo's vision, the only things in fire code are the machines, the fields, Bane/Smith, the machine city, but Trinity and the background doesnt seem to have any code in it. But when it's that vision that allows us to see Neo and the gold around him (when he sees Deus Ex Machina, walking through the golden brick road to reach Deus Ex, Neo after being assimilated by Smith) we see the gold and we see Neo's color, Neo's features, his clothes, instead of a black spot. There's a part where he looks down to his feet and then they are black but then in the other camera we can see his boots.

Now i can list these vision modes:
-Regular in Matrix (the persons, the colors, regular vision)
-Code in Matrix(golden code and green code)
-Regular in real world
-Code in real world(golden code and regular)
-Neo in real world(golden code and black)

What made Neo see the golden code was his blindness. What I think is that it is this blindness, him losing the ability to see regularly, the actual colors and features of things, that makes him see the rest in black, and then golden code, which he doesnt need his eyes to see.

It would be like Neo only seeing Seraph in gold but not seeing the rest in code but in regular vision, or in black.

So basically I'm comparing the capabilities of the medium Matrix with the medium Real World, how neo's blindness affects his vision, and how he can only see the code that permeates the machines but not the veil behind the Real World.
Im not trying to convince anyone though that the real world has any veil to pull, I just had this thought nagging my mind and wanted to share it and see what you'd think.

I'd love to see the script for the sequels just to see what they called this fiery soul/code!

The Golden code in the Matrix.. That is a subject, which interests me a lot. Only Seraph had it (the Oracle had green code, as seen when she was assimilated by Smith). Seraph I think has slightly more importance than what I believed before. Got to get some answers about him..

In the first place, why does he warn the Oracle every time Smith is near?

Actually who is/was Seraph? (besides the protector of the Oracle)

Really like this idea of sentinel 'soul' code flying through the windscreen.
Just from a logical point of view, I thought I'd add this:
A machine is not necessarily tied to code, (eg: a washing machine)
Code is not necessarily tied to a machine.(eg: mobile phone receives your voice encoded digitally, which flies around. Bluetooth lets devices communicate without any physical connection)
If we could see code, we might watch it streaming into our mobile.

Really like this idea of sentinel 'soul' code flying through the windscreen.
Just from a logical point of view, I thought I'd add this:
A machine is not necessarily tied to code, (eg: a washing machine)
Code is not necessarily tied to a machine.(eg: mobile phone receives your voice encoded digitally, which flies around. Bluetooth lets devices communicate without any physical connection)
If we could see code, we might watch it streaming into our mobile.

I have been thinking of this too and I agree that the sentinel bounces off the ship and the soul or code or whatever passes through neo.

This is quite a good explanation of this scene, but I have two little niggles.

1) The Sentinel approaches the ship from lower starboard, bringing itself to a peak in its path level with the Logos Cockpit, where it hovers for a moment before flying forwards and 'into' Neo. The hovering would seem to me to signify a rational purpose behind its movements. Now it seems to me that a Sentinel in this postion is faced with a dilemma, To obey the will of the Source and go on a 'Kamikazi mission', or obey its (supposed) 'free will'. This dilemma is a real challenge for me to understand. Can anybody help me out with this?

2) After the camera changes back to 'Normal' View (as opposed to the gold-code) Trinity grabs Neo by the arm, proclaiming, "Gotcha!" Now if Trin could not see the Sentinel 'going through' Neo she would have no idea that he would 'need catching'. I don't know whether this is relevent, or wheter someone can explain it.

Just my two testicles.

I have also been wondering why she says gotcha in that scene. I have no idea. Someone help.

[quote="Infinity"]This is quite a good explanation of this scene, but I have two little niggles.

1) The Sentinel approaches the ship from lower starboard, bringing itself to a peak in its path level with the Logos Cockpit, where it hovers for a moment before flying forwards and 'into' Neo. The hovering would seem to me to signify a rational purpose behind its movements. Now it seems to me that a Sentinel in this postion is faced with a dilemma, To obey the will of the Source and go on a 'Kamikazi mission', or obey its (supposed) 'free will'. This dilemma is a real challenge for me to understand. Can anybody help me out with this?[\quote]

As mentioned earlier, Neo uses his mind to assimilate the sentinal in to his body. Their spirits are joined, just as he did at the end of Reloaded to stop the sentinals and to blow up the bombs in the machine city.

Another thing - I believe sentinals have simply one purpose as explained in the original Matrix, "search and destroy." And that would be at any expense. I don't think the sentinals are faced with any dilemma because they simply have one purpose.

Infinity wrote:

2) After the camera changes back to 'Normal' View (as opposed to the gold-code) Trinity grabs Neo by the arm, proclaiming, "Gotcha!" Now if Trin could not see the Sentinel 'going through' Neo she would have no idea that he would 'need catching'. I don't know whether this is relevent, or wheter someone can explain it. Just my two testicles.

I think Trinity sees the whole thing happen and since Neo is basically doing what he does in the matrix, here in the machine world, he needs to make sure he doesn't loose focus. She knows as well as Neo does the consequences of slipping up a bit.

By the way, nice pic lol.

Sorry - this is what I meant to do.

Infinity wrote:

This is quite a good explanation of this scene, but I have two little niggles. 1) The Sentinel approaches the ship from lower starboard, bringing itself to a peak in its path level with the Logos Cockpit, where it hovers for a moment before flying forwards and 'into' Neo. The hovering would seem to me to signify a rational purpose behind its movements. Now it seems to me that a Sentinel in this postion is faced with a dilemma, To obey the will of the Source and go on a 'Kamikazi mission', or obey its (supposed) 'free will'. This dilemma is a real challenge for me to understand. Can anybody help me out with this?

As mentioned earlier, Neo uses his mind to assimilate the sentinal in to his body. Their spirits are joined, just as he did at the end of Reloaded to stop the sentinals and to blow up the bombs in the machine city.

Another thing - I believe sentinals have simply one purpose as explained in the original Matrix, "search and destroy." And that would be at any expense. I don't think the sentinals are faced with any dilemma because they simply have one purpose.

Infinity wrote:

2) After the camera changes back to 'Normal' View (as opposed to the gold-code) Trinity grabs Neo by the arm, proclaiming, "Gotcha!" Now if Trin could not see the Sentinel 'going through' Neo she would have no idea that he would 'need catching'. I don't know whether this is relevent, or wheter someone can explain it. Just my two testicles.

I think Trinity sees the whole thing happen and since Neo is basically doing what he does in the matrix, here in the machine world, he needs to make sure he doesn't loose focus. She knows as well as Neo does the consequences of slipping up a bit.

By the way, nice pic lol.

This is just another proof to the MWAM theory. Its funny, there is all this solid evidence in support of the MWAM, yet everyone denies because they 'think' or 'believe' or 'feel' that its not true. All three movies take place completly inside a 'Matrix' even though the Zionities refer to their original prison as 'THE Matrix' the whole movie takes place in what we understand as the matrix.