»"Your 5 predecessors..."«

Hello, I am new to posting here, but I have been casually skimming the topics for the past month or so... Anyways, there has been alot of talk about Neo being a program based on the Architects statement here.

"Your 5 predecessors were, by design, based on a similar predication - a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the One".

However, I gather something totally different from this... The Architect being a machine only understands things in machine terms. By Design simply means, Being Human. Another thing which is suggested(although this may be my own speculation) is that... All Human's essentially love other humans, we need them... Now, the previous One's being quite possibly so focused on there tasks have no time for a specific love or in the words of the Merovingian "Do not make time..." Due to their sense of duty or quite possibly circumstance, they did not have a "specific" love, but still possessed the general one. Neo is different, he loves Trinity this is nothing new.

Another thing the Architect mentions is Neo has to return to the source, allowing the "code" he carries be disseminated into the prime program. Alot of folks have pondered this, what is this code? How did Neo get it? He must be part machine/program. But you aren't looking at it from the correct perspective... Neo is the One. He is the one that does not accept the Matrix what so ever, he can stop bullets, fly, fight hundreds of men at one time, he resurrects Trinity. But he is the only One that can do this. Morpheus, Trinity, while all the other freed humans recognize the Matrix as false... Still accept a portion of it, otherwise Trinity would have just gotten up after the Agent shot her, just like Neo. But she didn't, he had to save her. Just like Neo had to save Morpheus from the BigRig explosion, Morpheus didn't fly away on his own.

Anyways back to this "code", Neo's "code" is needed to reload the matrix... Why, because the Matrix will now use him as a model for all humans... Once again this is speculation but think about it... Neo's "code" consists of all his memories, experiences, feelings, beliefs, all human emotions read by the machines as "code". In order for the matrix can adapt to be acceptable to even the One, it must be based on his experiences, feelings, beliefs, they must figure out by reading Neo's "code" how he ticks, and why he wouldn't accept the Matrix.

Neo would COMPLETLY not accept V.6, unlike others who ultimately knew the truth but still could be fooled.

Good first post TheChosenOne!

I agree with most. I also think the anomaly-code is used to unleash a more stable equation.

About his code; I think it has something to do with his genetic-code (which is converted to digital within the Matrix).

Someone who is potentially the One must contain the following properties in his/her genetic-pattern:

-a sixth sense or the ability to develop it
-a kind-hearted personality
-a persistance in reaching goals
-mathematical-knowlegde (in order to hack around)

quite possibly do to his genetic code... or rather the level of progress of development of abilities(talk about a run on) inherent in all humans.

I think I have the answers to your questions, Chosen One.

Indeed Neo is part code. I dont mean he is a program, but he has the One code or anomaly code inserted in him. This is the code that lets him break the rules of the Matrix and do whatever he wants. This is the fundamental flaw or integral anomaly of the system. This anomaly must be incorporated as part of the system otherwise the system will fail. The translation- Neo's code must return to the Source, or else the Matrix will crash. Once the code has become part of the system, it reloads and becomes stabler. But because this new system is also inherently flawed, it will have its own integral anomaly manifesting in another The One.

Questions?

that would be cool indeed, life is like one big DOOM simulation. God codes and such... But I'm sorry, I don't think it works for me.

AG, the Matrix is just not gonna crash yet.
That's a referal to the short-term destruction of the Smiths.

The anomaly could make the Matrix crash on long-term yes. If they let him continue free people and let Zion intact.

If they didn't trie to control Neo, he could free even more people after he freed the 1% who doubt the Matrix.

So that's their fear. That he will make the system fail by in the end freeing almost all people.

They use the negative One as a pressure for him to surrender. This also creates a risk for the machines, but they rather have that risk than the risk of letting the anomaly free for years to come.

it's not just the term "by design". It the statement "though the process has altered your consciousness you remain irrevocably human" and the wish of the architect to reinsert Neo's code into the matrix (how does he say it - i can't remember).

How can it be genetic exactly?

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. By Design simply means, Being Human. Another thing which is suggested(although this may be my own speculation) is that... All Human's essentially love other humans, we need them...

Not everyone needs human interaction or the interaction of love. (hitler)
you CANT make such a blanket statement there are CLEARLY evil people out there that HATE life. (it sucks i know) and people out there that would "rather be alone"

i would say MOST people do. yes. But not ALL.
so that is "flawed"
and this conncection that Neo has MUST be a program instilled in his "brain"

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Now, the previous One's being quite possibly so focused on there tasks have no time for a specific love or in the words of the Merovingian "Do not make time..." Due to their sense of duty or quite possibly circumstance, they did not have a "specific" love, but still possessed the general one. Neo is different, he loves Trinity this is nothing new.

His unique love for trinity is obvious, so that is nothing new to the table.

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But you aren't looking at it from the correct perspective... Neo is the One. He is the one that does not accept the Matrix what so ever, he can stop bullets, fly, fight hundreds of men at one time, he resurrects Trinity

Neo has his LIMITS and this is made ABUNDANTLY clear. *the bleeding hand*
-he is still only human-
and BECAUSE of this Neo still has the "program" of the ONE inside his mind.
and besides even if he KNEW that there was a program in his mind that was ALLOWING or ENABLING him to "stop bullets" or have a "profound connection" do you think he would want to "get rid of it" even if he COULD?
NO.
and i dont think that he CAN or would want to.
besides its NEO's CODE that allows the distruction of "agent smith" it is his CODE that allows him to "push away" smiths control.

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Once again this is speculation but think about it... Neo's "code" consists of all his memories, experiences, feelings, beliefs, all human emotions read by the machines as "code".

code can be DELETED and MANIPULATED as the "programmer" sees fit.
Neo's code can be manipulated and his memories can be deleted for the next neo that comes along.

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In order for the matrix can adapt to be acceptable to even the One, it must be based on his experiences, feelings, beliefs, they must figure out by reading Neo's "code" how he ticks, and why he wouldn't accept the Matrix.

again, code can be manipulated.

Could you PLEASE stop writing as a stream of consciousness Raksasha! That was one of your worst posts ever!

You say you know about logical arguments and then you write in a mess. Write with a beginning and an end - write in clear points - write so we can understand you PLEASE!

there I fixed it. (its a little better)

Mobil Ave- Indeed I know HOW the system will crash because of Neo. I agree with the long term thing that you were talking about.

Why would the machines CREATE the anti- One? HOW could they even have the power to choose whether or not he is created? They dont. They understand that because of the One there will be a balance and opposite manifesting in the negative One. They understand that it is a result of the equation trying to balance itself out. But they cannot do anything to stop it from happening. What they can do is CONTROL it. Just like they cant prevent the One from manifesting but can CONTROL it. They hope that the One will reload the Matrix and as a result, the negative One will be gotten rid of.

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Not everyone needs human interaction or the interaction of love. (hitler) you CANT make such a blanket statement there are CLEARLY evil people out there that HATE life. (it sucks i know) and people out there that would "rather be alone.

Not true... Psychologically. These people are messes, especially Hitler, he was the mind of a serial killer as a dictator. I don't know much about this, but from what I do understand.... Most truly EVIL people, mass murderers, child killers, all were usually not treated well at all at a young age. But this is by Cause and Effect, rather than By Design.

Alright, maybe I was over-zealous in saying that Neo COMPLETELY doesn't accept V6, because he has some(very minimal) limits. This is attuned to his awakening and even before the bleeding hand thing... The system(while Smith was still attatched.)witnessed him wake up from the dead and stop bullets. No other human CAN do this... Therefore he was recognized as the Anomaly, he wasn't until this... Agents were really looking for Morpheus in the first film. So anyways, even though he has stopped bullets, he has not FULLY awakened, therefore explaining the cut on his hand. But has already done so to a degree that far surpasses anybody in this version of the Matrix. He then went on to resurrect Trinity... Stop sentenals. See machines while blind in somesort fractal vision. Be driven into the Earth from the upper atmosphere, creating a crater the size of a baseball field. Get up, say "I choose to" and willingly gives himself as sacrifice to Smith. This all is a result of the progression of his mental awareness, how else does he have "Inner Sight" and do all the shit in the real world? He just doesn't realize this until close to his "death?".
It's not because of a code that the machines, gave him of all things.

Who knows, maybe the previous Anomaly was nothing like this one... Maybe he was identified as being the Anomaly by breaking the sound barrier on foot or some crazy shiznit. Maybe Neo was the only one to actually kill an agent. We don't really know.

Akshat Gupta wrote:

I think I have the answers to your questions, Chosen One. Indeed Neo is part code. I dont mean he is a program, but he has the One code or anomaly code inserted in him. This is the code that lets him break the rules of the Matrix and do whatever he wants. This is the fundamental flaw or integral anomaly of the system. This anomaly must be incorporated as part of the system otherwise the system will fail. The translation- Neo's code must return to the Source, or else the Matrix will crash. Once the code has become part of the system, it reloads and becomes stabler. But because this new system is also inherently flawed, it will have its own integral anomaly manifesting in another The One. Questions?

Very nice and totally correct.

What many misunderstand is that Neo's powers do not spawn from him not accepting the Matrix. They are granted to gim by the Architect in the form of the code. This code is designed to compensate for the other rebels, who do not accept the Matrix. This is the "Minority that left unchecked, would constitute an escalating probability of disaster".

Neo exists purely because the Code needs a body to occupy. This is why all the previous Neos look identical. It is the code that governs what they look like and it is the code that generates them. They aren't 'born' in the traditional sense. Neo is still human, but he exists because the code designed to stablise the Matrix made him, and by returning to the source, the code within Neo will spread throughout the Matrix (disseminate) and repair it.

This is what the Architect means by "design". The One (with the code inside him) is designed to generate an attachment to humanity and therefore be compelled to save them by returning the source. OUR Neo's love for Trinity overrides even this, and he returns to the Matrix when the time comes.

I disagree that all the Ones look like Neo, Azar. But it is interesting.

I second AG's diagreement over all ones looking like Neo.

I also disagree that the ONE code always needs a body to occupy. I think it could exist without a body - a bit like Seraph. (BTW I do NOT think that Seraph used to be a ONE)

Why can't it be genetic?

The digital code of Neo is a representation of his mind and genetic-structure.

Thomas A. Anderson from the Matrix looks exactly like he looks like in the Real World, while he never saw himself! So there has to be a digital representation of his DNA.

This genetic-code is always suited for the anomaly. Would you ever think that a guy like Cypher would stand and fight an agent just because he is beginning to believe? He would rather make a deal with the agent or run like hell.

Someone's genetic-pattern can tell if he/she is going to develop a sixth sense, if he/she is a fighter, if he/she is more good or more evil. So I think the system provides the anomaly-code to someone that is born with all these genetic properties. In this way you could explain the "by design"-thing.

Neo could indeed look the same each cycle. Then they would have to clone him; which could very well be possible in the future-setting of the movies.
The machines would than be certain that the genetics would perfectly match to the anomaly-abilities. Only this time love f*cked it all up.

I don't think his ability to fly has anything to do with his genetics. I'll accept the human affecting the code but I won't accept the code altering the DNA of the human.

The architect says "the process has altered your consciousness". Not - 'the process has altered your DNA' or 'your DNA has caused a process to occur'.

No I don't mean that the anomaly-code changes his DNA.

Next to the code that represents the humans digitally in the Matrix, they get another code from the equation in which they take part.

The human that matches a 'perfect' genetic-pattern gets provided with the anomaly-factor of the equation.

The human itself needs his fighting, believing and sixth sense (which he all has thanks to his genetics) in order to discover and to exploit his given anomaly-code.

Fatpie42 wrote:

I second AG's diagreement over all ones looking like Neo. I also disagree that the ONE code always needs a body to occupy. I think it could exist without a body - a bit like Seraph. (BTW I do NOT think that Seraph used to be a ONE)

Let me rephrase.

The coding doesn't need a body to occupy. It needs a body as a vessel to get it to the Architect:

"There will be a temporary dissemination of the code you carry reinserting the prime program".

Once Neo reaches the source, the code acts on its own. I doubt Neo would have his powers following this event.

As for the idea of genetics vs code generating the body, an almost irelevant detail that doesn't have any real impact in the movies themselves. I may change my opinion over time, as my current one is light and not given uch attention to.

Ultimately, all we need to know is that Neo is the vessel for a piece of code that repairs the Matrix temporarily once he reaches the source.

I think Seraph, like any program, would be quite capable of going to the architect. Why does it need a body?

Because the Architect needs the One to emerge and select the 23 individuals to rebuild zion and continue the process. This must be done by a human who is aware of the revolution cycle and dupe the humans (for their own good) into believing that there will be the coming of a second "One".

And this would require him to leave the matrix, why?

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Why would the machines CREATE the anti- One?

for the same reasons why they created the ANTI-ARCHETECT.
or "the oracle"

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They hope that the One will reload the Matrix and as a result, the negative One will be gotten rid of

You said "hope"
and the archetect "laughs" at it.
and when you have "ultimate control" over something (and they do) then you have no NEED for "hope" cause you KNOW it will happen.

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Most truly EVIL people, mass murderers, child killers, all were usually not treated well at all at a young age. But this is by Cause and Effect, rather than By Design.

BE CONSISTANT.
either you believe in FORCE or you believe in CHOICE.
you dont "automatically" choose to do something cause you are treated badly.
so if im "not treated well" by my parents im AUTOMATICALLY "hitler!"
oh crap, my mom just spanked me, so now im going to go kick the crap out of my dog.
and i cant HELP myself, i HAVE to do it.
THATS REDICULOUS.
the only thing you HAVE to do is "die"
the ONLY reason why people "dont want human interaction" is cause they "choose to" and NOT cause they "have to" the feeling or desire to "be alone" may be linked to "why" they do it but that doesnt mean they "half to"

you dont HAVE to fall prey to your "feelings"
you ONLY have to fall prey to "death" and thats ALL.

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. No other human CAN do this... Therefore he was recognized as the Anomaly, he wasn't until this...

thats cause the program that is put into him.
NOTICE how he "dodged bullets" BEFORE he died? (no one ELSE could do that either)
how the hell do you explain that?
YOU CANT.

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he has not FULLY awakened, therefore explaining the cut on his hand.

You cant say that, JUST because he "stopped sentinels" doesnt mean that he "GAINED" anything since his death.
"remember he didnt even "come in contact" with them until then"
NOTHING says that he "gained anything" since his death.
only that he "sees" things when they HAPPEN.
and thats all.
Just cause i see a car that ive never seen before does NOT mean i have "special powers" or am GROWING in "sight"

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Maybe Neo was the only one to actually kill an agent. We don't really know.

so the other 1's having the POWER to "change the matrix as they see fit" would not "kill an agent?"
logic says so.

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This is what the Architect means by "design". The One (with the code inside him) is designed to generate an attachment to humanity and therefore be compelled to save them by returning the source. OUR Neo's love for Trinity overrides even this, and he returns to the Matrix when the time comes

EXACTLY

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I also disagree that the ONE code always needs a body to occupy. I think it could exist without a body - a bit like Seraph.

it NEEDS it to "provide the illusion" of "a savior" why the hell would the people of zion BELIEVE that the "SAVIOR" is a program.

i guess they "could" but remember they didnt KNOW that the oracle was a program until NEO "found out"

but it would STILL be "more beleiveable"

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The architect says "the process has altered your consciousness". Not - 'the process has altered your DNA' or 'your DNA has caused a process to occur'

the DNA and "consciousness are DIFFERENT THINGS

in the same way that when you upload a "program" into trintites brain.
when you LEARN something and it gets "stored" into it, it doenst CHANGE your DNA. it mearly gets "stored"
Trinities DNS didnt get changed when she "learned how to pilot a helicopter"
and to say so is rediculous.

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The human itself needs his fighting, believing and sixth sense (which he all has thanks to his genetics) in order to discover and to exploit his given anomaly-code

No, its Thanks to his PROGRAM. (like the helecoptor "program")
"program code" and "gentic code" are different things.

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And this would require him to leave the matrix, why?

So that he could become "one" with the source and allow his "dissemniation" that evetually led to smiths distruction.
thats "why"

So Azar, you mean the One code needs a shell? Agreed. Whether it be human or program? Now there's a good question. Who says a program cant carry the anomaly code

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Who says a program cant carry the anomaly code

I say so.

A program carrying the code just wouldnt make much sense, cause the "anomaly" is linked to "humanity" or the 1% of the people that refuse the program.

the "remain unchecked" is going to lead to disaster if the anomaly isnt placed WITH the people of ZION.

A "program" carrying the code would be less "likely" to be a "believable" savior.
IF you want to say "No one would know he was a program" then what about the ORACLE or the Merovingian.

if ONE of them didnt reveal the secret it would be logical to assume that the other would reveal it. NOT to meantion the archectect would have probably said so. "you remain irrevocably human." and INSTEAD he would have said "you remain irrevocably program"

The program "code" of the one is nothing different than that of a helicopter program that allows someone to fly a helicopter. ONLY in that NEOs program "allows" him to dodge bullets. (this was "before morpheus said "hes beginning to beleive")