»Finality of the Matrix without destroying Revolutions«

Feel free to comment as you see fit...its your choice and its inevitable.

Ok people I have to admit that after seeing The Matrix Revolutions for the first time I left the theater extremely disappointed. I only became disappointed at the very end of the movie. I was under the impression that I was going to see finality with the third installment but finality is not what I found as the credits began to roll. I was so enraged because I believe this to be the best movie I have ever seen. What I liked even more than the special effects, action, and sound...is the phenomenal multi leveled story that is truly a work of pure genius. However, I feel that the creative genius died in the very last minutes of Revolutions unless a fourth movie is intended. Now what makes a literary piece of art are those stories that captivate those who experience it which this story in fact has done for me. But, it failed by not tapping into the imagination in regards to the ending. As I type this some people may be saying, “well can you do any better without ending it in a way that is typical of Hollywood?” I believe I can. I will now tell you what I feel would’ve been a fantastic ending to this magnificent work of art. I have given this a great deal of thought and my daughter and I who are “Big Time” Matrix fans have discussed this numerous times and with our collective minds we now submit this “alternate” ending to Revolutions for your revue. By the way this ending came about by taking into consideration ALL aspects of the Matrix phenomena (i.e. the movies, Annimatrix stories, Enter The Matrix game.) I think you’ll find that the ending I will now present to you will not only mentally satisfy and mesmerize you but you’ll also find that it answers ALL of the unanswered questions that were left over from Revolutions. This will be a lengthy post, which I am sorry for but I think that when you’re done you’ll be glad you read it. This alternate ending begins with the original movie Revolutions. I think everything should stand in Revolutions EXACTLY as it was up to the point where Neo is being carried away by the machines after he has destroyed the “Smiths.”

We see Neo carried by the machines to the distance that is shown in the movie. Then the frame freezes and the matrix code begins to scroll down taking bits of the frozen frame of Neo as each stream of code passes over the frame until we’re left with just the code running. Then just as in the first movie at the end where the message “SYSTEM FAILURE” comes up we now get a message that says, “CONGRATULATIONS YOU HAVE NOW COMPLETED ALL LEVELS OF THE ENTER THE MATRIX TOLERANCE EDUCATIONAL PROGRAM!”

We now see the scene of the original movie Revolutions of the Matrix being restored and we find the Oracle sitting on the bench and the Architect walks up but instead of standing he walks over and sits next to the Oracle who is smiling at him and he at her. The little girl and the cat are not in the scene at all.

As the two exchange smiles these are smiles that give off the impression that each one believes that they have won. The Architect as he smiles says, “how long do you expect this peace to last?” in which the Oracle replies with a smile, “as long as it possibly can.” Then she winks at him and he winks back. They now sit there casually smiling at each other.

The camera now draws back from them on the bench and continues to move farther and farther away from them then suddenly lines like that of a television screen form on the scene and the camera still continues to move backward to only to reveal a computer monitor. Then the camera pans down to reveal a keyboard and mouse.

With the keyboard locked in the camera’s frame we see a pair of human hands typing. We then jump to the park bench and hear the architect say, “Not too bad for a machine.” And he gives a little chuckle.

Then we jump back and see a pair of arms with long sleeves on and we hear the sound of typing on a keyboard. The camera moves down the arms to the source of the typing where we see a pair of hands made out of machine. We view the machine’s hands typing a message then pressing ENTER.

At this point we now jump back to the park bench in which we now hear the Oracle respond with a chuckle, “and you’re not so bad yourself for a machine.” (We hear the sound of typing as this next part occurs) The Oracle now reaches over and takes the Architect’s hand and he places his hand on hers. The Architect then looks at her and says, “Thank You.” The Oracle’s smile grows bigger as the Architect leans in and kisses her on the forehead.

He now pulls back smiling gently at her and she proceeds to say, “And I thank you as well” she leans in and kisses him gently on the cheek. During this we have been hearing the sound of typing...and the camera pulls back displaying the hands of the Oracle being gently held in the hands of the Architect gazing at each other with smiles on their faces and the sun shining behind them.

We now jump back and see a keyboard and the camera continues to pull back until the monitor comes into view in which we see the Oracle and the Architect on the park bench.

The camera continues to pull away and the sound of voices and applause become audible. As the camera pulls back farther the more clear the sound becomes. Then the camera moves back and upward where we begin to see what is in the room and the source of the voices and applause. We see that we are in a highly technically advanced room. And in the center of this room are two highly sophisticated computers with a chair at each one. They face each other but anyone sitting at them could not see over them for they are to high due to their size because of the complexity of the computers.

The camera now lowers down while pulling back and suddenly we now see two beings with their hands in each other’s hands. On the left is a teenaged human boy smiling and on the right is a machine with artificial human features but enough features to see that the machine also is smiling.

We hear a tremendous amount of applause and rooting as the camera pans around these two individuals and soon we begin to see the audience. We see that the audience is made up of humans and machines. We also see family members going up and embracing the boy and also the family members of the machine doing the same to their family member. The family members of each side also shake and hug the members of the other family and their “graduated student.”

The camera pans around displaying an audience of thousands in a building that is the shape of an arena with gigantic screens completely encompassing the interior of the arena’s dome in which the scene of the Oracle and the Architect on the park bench is displaying the very last scene we saw them in.

In the audience humans and machines are applauding and shaking hands and hugging one another then as the camera pulls back and up we begin to see something on the floor of the arena. Soon we see exactly what it is. It’s a huge “painting” of a seal. The seal looks like this: Its round with olive branches in gold all around the edge then a three foot apace and then another circle of olive branches in gold. There is a phrase that is written in the three foot space are four words with a row of stars that separate each word from the other. The words are, “ZEAL, ISONOMY, OCCURRENCE, NECESSITATED” of course the acronym is Z.I.O.N. The meanings of the words are as follows in order: Zeal, enthusiastic devotion to a cause...Isonomy, equal law or right...Occurrence, unexpected events usually resulting from choice...Necessitated, to require or compel, inevitability.
In the center there is a crest like picture of a human hand and a machine hand clutching each other at the forearm bound together with a “vine” of golden olive branches going down the forearm to the wrist.

The camera now moves upward from this seal and continues to do so showing the enormous size of this arena. Then we move out of the arena and see the exterior roof and then the entire building.

The sun is shining brightly as we notice the arena and other surrounding buildings which are so architechtually magnificent that its quite obvious that we are many years into our current future. We are in the year 3021 or whatever year Morpheus believed that the Zionists were actually living in according to the first movie.

The camera now takes us to scenes of humans and machines moving about the city which is very highly advanced. We see scenes of humans repairing machines and machines helping humans do there jobs productively. We see beautiful homes owned by machines and humans alike. We see a building in similar fashion as the huge display screen in Times Square New York, which has news stories scrolling across it reading, “Today marks the 300th anniversary of the Laser Optic Solar Energy Chip created by man for the purpose of allowing machine citizens the ability to quickly convert solar energy into an energy source that is stored effectively on a high charge absorbing battery reducing the need for recharge to once every 120 years for almost all machines.... Also, the Humanoid Committee for the Protection of Life Form Environment, announced that the Earth’s ozone layer is now 94% restored and that pollution across the globe is almost completely eliminated according to Sentinel Commander, Morpheus Z41. Sentinel, Morpheus says that his team of 50,000 sentinels will have all pollution erraticated by 2:03:04pm tomorrow and that his team will then be split in half with 25,000 working day and night to maintain a pollution free Earth. The other 25,000 he said would join him along with a team of highly trained men from the Niobi Institute of Oceanography, to begin an aggressive campaign to clean and balance the Earth’s oceans, lakes, and streams. According to Morpheus “the goal is to make every source of water on the Earth 100% efficient for sustaining current life forms as well as restoring from DNA samples all the nautical life forms that went distinct after the collapse of the coral reef back in 2037.”

At this time the camera continues to pull back farther and farther showing a completely different world than we live in today. The camera pulls back up into the sky and up through clouds where we sentinels flying through the air cleaning pollution and then pulling back farther we begin to leave the Earth’s atmosphere where we see at the Northern part of the Earth a large cluster of sentinels formed all around where the hole in the ozone layer is and we see that hole decreasing as they work.

Then we pull back farther to where we just see Earth spinning and the camera holds there.... Then fade to black.


By Ron and Larissa

If you take the blue pill then all of the unanswered questions that Revolutions leaves with you will remain.

But if you take the red pill I will show you just how every last question that you have has been answered and thus allowing you to see just how deep the rabbit hole gets by the alternate ending I have submitted for your consideration.

This ending not only preserves the every bit of the vision of the Wichowski Brothers but enhances it and eleborates on it.


Here is a challenge for you: Give me ANY question that is NOT answered in ANY one of the movies and I'll show you that with the ending I've provided that it is answered. You'll find that once you fully comprehend what took place in my ending opens up an all new view of the matrix.

I'll give you a small nibble of where it will take you:

The one boy and one machine are not imprisoned for prisons do not exsist in our future. But because of the Trinity AI chip that man created for the machines, both machine and man developed a series of 100% criminal rehabilition programs. The program is 100% effective because those who change do so because of their own choice because the program having choice as well because of its AI chip responds concordinately. The person or machine following the program must keep "playing" the program until that individual's choices causes the program's choices to respond in a way which will inevitably lead to the complete change of the program users way of thinking allowing them to see what effects come to fruition due to what their choices have caused.

So come on people give me a challenging question. You'll be amazed at how deep this ending not only effects the genius of the Matrix story as it was written but how powerful it extends to us on this side of the Matrix...or are we?

I will try to be as nice as I can...

That sounded like a Disney ending to the Matrix, but much worse. If that would've actually been the ending to the movie I might've shot myself after it was over. I don't want to be harsh, but it just got more and more rediculous as it went on. I want to stop here to see what other people thought, but I think they will also ask for the 10 minutes of their life back that they spent reading this.

MATRIX_MATT wrote:

I will try to be as nice as I can... That sounded like a Disney ending to the Matrix, much worse. If that would've actually been the ending to the movie I might've shot myself after it was over. I don't want to be harsh, but it just got more and more rediculous as it went on. I want to stop here to see what other people thought, but I think they will also ask for the 10 minutes of their life back that they spent reading this.

agreed...DEFINITELY AGREED

as much is it certainly is an inventive and alternative ending

it would just confuse the casual no brainer and repulse and sicken the die hard matrix fans

Quote:

Here is a challenge for you: Give me ANY question that is NOT answered in ANY one of the movies and I'll show you that with the ending I've provided that it is answered. You'll find that once you fully comprehend what took place in my ending opens up an all new view of the matrix.

an extremely bold statement although wether your answers will even relate to what actually is the matrix is yet to be seen

"truth is an event and only through experience can the veracity of the truth be verified"...William James

who is the merovingian and what was he before he was exiled to the matrix?

who is seraph and what is his connection to the merovingian and smith

why is he refered to as "the wingless angel" and "judas" by the merovingian

what is sati's significance in the final scene of the entire matrix story and how is she able to change the sunset when we have already been told that a programme was written to govern this?

who or where does smith get his power of flight from?

and finally

WHAT IS THE MATRIX?

First of to Matrix Max...I appreciate your honesty and the use of self control in response to my alternate ending...and annomally the same goes to you as well.

However, let's take a look at what I actually did. I left all three movies perfectly intact except for the last 7 minutes or so of Revolutions which I feel completely destroyed the theme of Neo being the ONE because as it was made perfectly clear from the first movie The One would bring an END to the Matrix and yet the very last frame of Revolutions leaves us in the Matrix and what would be the purpose of that if human beings were in fact not going to inhabit it once again. Furthermore; we are given the indication that peace was not going to last by the conversation at the end of Revolutions that occured between The Oracle and The Architect. What was very stupid to me was that the people of Zion would think for a moment that the war was over just because the machines turned around and left. Then you have Michael running around like an idiot proclaiming that the war was over. How does he know it's over? How does he know that the machines intentions are not kill all of them but rather to bring in another type of attack designed to put the people of Zion into pods to keep their power supply?

The Matrix Revolutions was duped as being THE FINAL installment of the Matrix...meaning no more movies....FINALITY.

Revolutions had no closure...and many questions were left unanswered. You see as you know Reloaded and Revolutions was originally supposed to be one movie and was split supposedly due to the length of it. I can't help but wonder, knowing Hollywood like I do because I am in the Radio business and knowing Marketing because of my coursework in that field in college, that when the Wickowski Brothers released Reloaded and saw the response that they had gotten and all those dollar signs, that they or the "Architects" behind the scenes decided that they weren't quite done milking this cash cow and so Revolutions needed to be left wide open for a fourth movie.

I mean let's be honest here the first movie had far more closure and finality to it than Revolutions did. I could easily buy that at the end of the first movie when the words "SYSTEM FAILURE" came up on the machine's trace computer and Neo talking on the phone telling them that he is now going to show the people in the matrix the truth thereby awakening them in the real world was not only pallettable but was plausible as well. If they never would've made another Matrix after that first one it would've been fantastic in its own right and very easily stands on its own having the makings of a great movie. It had a beginning, a middle, and a climactic ending which left the viewer with closure. It didn't paint out that closure in detail but it didn't need to because the only questions that were left at the end of that movie was "wow I wonder exactly how Neo is going to reveal this to the people of the matrix?" and "when the people wake up in their pods what happens then?"

But you see these are questions that the VIEWER presents to him or herself. Where Revolutions leaves many questions that the STORY itself presented but then failed to answer them leaving you and I to only speculate what those answers are...in college that's called poor story writing.

Now since they did have a sequal, which by the way, I'm glad they did. I did not leave the theater upset because I knew in advance that Reloaded was not the closure to the story but was merely plot development and I think that they chose a very good place to seperate Reloaded from Revolutions. However, in the plot development of Reloaded and Revolutions they presented many questions that the viewer expects to have somewhat of answer too by the films conclusion. Well some of those questions were answered but many were not. In fact, the way the movie ended reopened some questions that had been closed and even prestented some brand new ones. Some may call this clever writing but it is not unless another story is to follow in which those very important unanswered questions have been addressed in some way.

So my hope is that there will be a fourth Movie because here are just a small sample of some very important questions that have been left unanswered:

Was Neo really the ONE? I don't see how since the true ONE was to bring an END to the matrix and yet the Oracle and the Architect play out their final scene in a brand new fully restored matrix.

Is Zion really free? The one was supposed to free Zion and yet the movie ends with them still under the confinement of living underground and the ever present threat of the machines returning to destroy them.

If Neo is the ONE then is he dead? we last see him being "carried" off by the machines but we don't know if he is truly dead or alive and if he's dead then Zion is screwed and to the machines Neo is a threat if he's alive because only Neo was able to stop what the machines couldn't...the Smiths.

If the Architect does as he gave his word he would do and "unplug" the rest of humanity and set them free then where will the machines get their energy from since the sky is scorched.

These are just a few and extremely important questions that remain within the confinds of the viewers mind long after the credits have rolled by in Revolutions.

Anomaly I'll respond to your last question..."WHAT IS THE MATRIX?" because I believe it will answer a few of your other questions in doing so.
This will be a deeper look into how my alternate ending works with all of the movies without destroying them. I believe that this ending brings something that is lacking by the writers of the story and that the answers to their own questions. It is universally considered to be clever in story writing to create a plot that causes the reader to or the viewer in the case of a motion picture, to ask questions. But the cleverness comes from the one experiencing the story to come up with their own questions and then possibly find them answered within the story. If the reader or viewer cannot find the answers to the questions that they come up with due to the story’s plot, then that is truly a clever and intelligent story. However, it is NOT clever for the writer of a story to lay out a series of questions for the reader or viewer and then not address them one way or the other in the story plot. For example, we are told from the very first Matrix that the ONE would bring and end to the war AND the Matrix. This idea resonates throughout the entire story and yet the story ends with an indicated temporary truce and a rebuilding of the Matrix. The whole story is asking the question, “Is Neo the ONE?” yet when the story is concluded that question that they keep asking the viewer is not answered. That is why there are people who are saying yes he is the One and people saying no he is not the One. If they had answered this very important question then there would be no confusion regarding it. Don’t get me wrong, I think its a fantastic story that the writers killed in the last 7 minutes rather than taking us further down the rabbit hole than we thought we could go. Remember I’m not changing anything about any of the three movies except for what takes place after the machines carry Neo away. My ending as “Disney” as it may be at the very least gives the answers to the questions that the writers failed to do and yet got millions of dollars for that failure. I mean I was extremely happy with Revolutions until that ending. I left the theater pissed. I actually wanted my money back. Its like paying to go on a rollercoaster that is marketed as being one of the best in the world only to find out once you’re on it that it travels at a top speed of 10 MPH.

In my alt ending the Matrix is one of a series computer programs that are used in the future for the rehabilitation of criminal behavior of both man and machine. These programs were designed in a cooperative effort of men and machines and has a 100% success rate because it combines the precision of the machine's mind with love that is found in the hearts of men thereby teaching both machine and men the inevitability of their choices (i.e. cause and effect.)

So according to my ending we have a teenaged boy who hates that machines have an equal role in his society. He thinks they need to be under the absolute control of man and be at man's beck and call. But, the machines have been given artificial intelligence and eventhough it's artificial it's still intelligence which make the machines self aware and gives them the ability that no other being on Earth has except for man...the ability to reason and make choices.

Now, I also have an opponent that is subjected to the very same program that the boy is. It's a machine who hates mankind and all of his weaknesses. Because of AI the machine is able to reason and has come to the conclusion that men are far more inferior to machines because of there falabilities such as love and hope. Although the machine knows that these have been the source of most of man's successes the machine sees that it is also the cause of his most horrid atrocities.

So the boy and the machine committed a hate crime and are now subject to the justice system of the future. It's a system that no longer has to imprison or put to death the violators of the worldwide societal law that govern all men and machines equally.

So they have been sentenced to undergo The Matrix Tolerance Educational Program. The way the program works is that the human boy is in basic charge of the Matrix which is a program sort of like Sim City only extremely more complex in design. The boy is ordered to assume the role of the Architect and is charge of all of the machines and agents. He gets to design the Matrix as he sees fit but it must have both machine and men.

The machine is given the role of the Oracle and cannot be destroyed unless "she" chooses to be.

The goal of the boy and the machine is to save and preserve Zion which is embedded into the basic program of the matrix...as you read in my first post in this thread ZION is the acronym for the fundamental statutes that govern the world in which these two rehabilitants are from.


Now, the boy and the machine have the ability to hack the matrix program to a certain degree and set up "firewalls" and "viruses" on any of the any of the hacks created my them or their opponent.

Hacks by the Oracle:
Sarrif (a firewall for the Oracle not to for her protection but for protecting her hacks as needed)
Neo (hacked with super abilities a virus protection program and others)
Morpheus (a man created by the Architect that was hacked by the Oracle)
Trinity (created by the Architect and hacked by the Oracle)
Those freed from the Architect’s world.
The Key Maker (a hack created by the Oracle to be hacked by the architect to test the quality of the Oracle's newer and improved hack of Neo so that the Oracle (the machine) could make contact with the Architect (the boy)


As it had occurred three times in the past but those hacks failed because the Oracle being a machine who did not believe in hope kept choosing the door via Neo that led back to Zion. The Oracle kept going through that door because it was the most logical way and presented a definite solution to save Zion but because of the Architects control it didn’t save Zion but merely preserved them. But by this time around the Oracle (the machine) learned the value and meaning of true love evident of creating Neo and Trinity and hacking in the human response of true love and the human choice factor.

The Oracle had tested the power of choice and hope through the insertion of the hack known as Michael. The machine (Oracle) reasoned within itself that it had tried everything logical to complete its task of saving and preserving Zion that it decided it would see what hope and choice would do. So the machine (Oracle) hacked these two things into Michael. The machine found out that when Michael received a little bit of the truth accompanied by hope and choice that a fantastic result occurred. Michael became the first and only hack program to free himself from the grip of the Matrix. The machine realized that what it had viewed, as a human frailty a weakness in fact was a tremendous strength. So the machine calculated that the factor that contributed to the success or the lack of success in choice was contingent upon the degree of true love that was utilized in making the choice. So the Oracle (the machine) hacked in a perfect love code into Neo and Trinity. Which is the means that the Oracle used to choose the other door that defied all logic and reasoning in the hope that the outcome would be favorable. And the boy (Architect) who had been so committed to retaining power over the machines (the Oracle and her hacks) was intrigued by Neo’s use of choice, love, and hope he began to see that the machine that he was playing against had the qualities that define human beings. It was the Architect’s plan to insert a code into Neo that would save Zion by rebuilding it. But this failed every time because it only served to preserve the Zionists but not save them from bondage. But this time the Oracle had responded differently. In a manner he believed to be impossible by a machine. The Architect knew that this would have a different outcome. For he himself now gained respect for the machine. It is then that the Architect acknowledges his respect to the Oracle through the little speech about hope being the cause of many of man’s greatest achievements and some of his greatest failures but still hope that is seen is not hope so hope leaves a certain degree of doubt exhibited in the tone that that the Oracle uses through Neo and the Architect. So the Oracle in a cold and apprehensive tone that often accompanies hope says, “then you better hope that I don’t see you again.” This causes the Architect to respond in like manner saying, “you won’t” pointing out that both of them saw their acceptance of one another and that this would inevitably bring the ending they were both looking for.

But two uncontrollable problems were embedded within the core Matrix program designed to test the sincerity of the Architect and the Oracle had to be dealt with. A virus would be released if the Oracle inserted a true love code that could destroy everything within the Matrix including the Architect if two factors were in place. That virus was attached to Smith the moment the true love code was activated. The activation of that code took place when Trinity kissed Neo after he was shot dead by Smith. It had happened before but the Smith Virus was defeated time and again by the Architect because the other factor had not been put in place. However the eventhough the virus was defeated it came at the cost of the destruction of everything the Architect had built coinciding with the destruction of Zion by the machines for neither the Architect or the Oracle knew that this virus was inert of the program. They both believed that the other inserted it. But this time one of the factors was activated that would make the Smith virus indestructible. This time the Oracle (the machine) made a pure choice made out of pure love. It was a choice not based on calculations or absolutes but a choice the machine made for the sake of love and hope...she allowed her powers (the machine’s control in the matrix) to be taken into the Smith virus in hopes of stopping it before it could destroy what the Architect had built. This gave the Smith virus the power to overtake the Oracle’s hacks and if the other factor came into play it would give the Smith virus the power to overtake and destroy the Architect and his saved files from the previous Matrix’s causing the Architect and the Oracle to start completely from the beginning...having to relearn everything they had learned up to that point from scratch.

This is where the hack Neo and Trinity come into play. For she inserted a code into them that if the Smith virus ever overtook her then they must go to the Architect himself and warn him of the virus. That’s exactly what Neo and Trinity set out to do. The Smith virus makes an attempt to prevent this warning but the Oracle through Neo is determined to communicate with the Architect. One byte of the Smith virus is not enough to stop Neo however it deletes the Trinity hack.

Due to the Oracle’s (through Neo) persistence to see him the Architect chooses to listen to Neo. Neo explains that the situation with the Smith virus is not like the last time because now the Smith virus is not confined to just the Matrix world program that the Architect built but to the Architect and his database (i.e. the machine city) as well will now be destroyed by it. Neo offers to fight with all his might to destroy the Smith virus if he would care enough to spare the destruction of Zion that also contains hacks that the Oracle freed from the Matrix. For all of these hacks by the Oracle were in fact embedded with an electronic DNA sample of the Oracle. But Neo does not tell the Architect about the DNA in these hacks because the Architect is fully aware of this fact.

So the Architect agrees to plug Neo into the Matrix to deal with Smith because he has learned to trust the Oracle who is embedded into Neo. So Neo takes on the Smith virus with all his might. But soon it becomes obvious that Neo is not strong enough to defeat this version of the Smith virus. The Architect is so taken in at how hard the Oracle (the machine) is fighting to protect he and his knowledge that he does not want to see the Oracle (through Neo) destroyed. So the Architect quickly writes and embeds an anti virus code to work in unison with the code already in place in Neo from the Oracle. This gives Neo to utterly destroy the Smith Virus.

Had the Architect failed to care and help Neo than this would’ve activated the second factor that would’ve made the Smith Virus undefeatable.

So this causes the Architect to call the machines off of Zion and spare the Oracle who is contained in those that were hacked free from the Architect’s world.

Thus bringing an end to the rehabilitation of the machine and the teen-aged boy at the same time.

The boy learned that since the machines had intelligence that they were capable of love, choice, and hope. So they deserved to be treated as equals and that greater things could be accomplished by working side by side and respect for the machines.

The machine learned that what it perceived as being an extreme weakness in humans was also found within the machine itself because of intelligence. That love, choice, and hope when working collectively inevitably brings about the greater good for machine and man.

Good evening Ron.

I actually liked that ending. Although it didn't answer everything for me and personally I was hoping for not another matrix within a matrix within a matrix or game, I believe it would still have made a better climax that what we saw.

I do like the idea of the machine vs the human in a game though and the ZION acronym.

Well done my friend.

Thank you for sharing that.

-Md

Good after noon Ron you bloody moron. Your disney ending of the Matrix was not only crap but completely soppy, I read the whole post hoping you'd write something intelligent but it seems like I wasted my time. The one you call Michael is actually called the Kid you idiot. You say that in the ending we were given ( bloody genius ending) that you are pissed off at, didn't answer anything. You also talk about Revolutions as if it was just made because the Matrix sold so well. Well for, Revolutions answered a fuck load, you are just too ignorant to see that. Also, all three of the Matrix movies were written simulataneously and the Matrix was made by its self merely so they could make up the funds for the other two movies.

All Matrix within a Matrix theories are bollocks. The reality of the Matrix is that its realistic. For one, Neo did end the war. You just misinterpeted what they said. Not all were freed, they say "the ones that want out." The ending of Revolutions signifies that Man and Machine are no longer at war, that doesn't mean they have to work together, I mean the Machines only populate a small portion of the world. In one of the comics the Zionites find (your Z.I.O.N. was a stupid idea since Zion was used for religous significance e.g. The Promised Land. How ever I do give you credit for the words to in the Acronym - ZEAL, ISONOMY, OCCURRENCE, NECESSITATED) a swamp, which inhabits life and grows a new species of wheat that grows in a moist climate. The sky is scorched, but in this cloud are nano-bots, making it impossible for the machines to get past, since its an Electo-Magnetic field in a way.

When Neo is being carried away, no one does know if he's dead but that sparks confidence that another Animatrix will be created. New games will be created aswell, such as one based on Seraph when he works for the Merovingian and how he eventually joins the Oracle. The sun rise at the end of Revolutions signifies a new beginning, the Matrix will not be destroyed since the programs must live aswell. When Neo fights Smith in the Super Brawl (the last fight) the song made for it that is played is called Neodammerung, which is German for New Dawn. Everything important was answered, Neo was the one, the end of the war. The Matrix was just a program made to keep people alive while there bio-electricity was used as a power source. You complain answers were left unaswered for you, well you're still thinking about the movie, thats a good sign that its good. The answers are there, you just have to look harder.

I'll just add this last bit because I'm bored and some people probably still don't know this. When an exiled program goes back to the source, they are deleted. The gigantic machine at the end of Revolutions, Deus EX Machina was connected directly to the source. When Smith assimilated Neo he had made a direct connection to Deus Ex, since Neo was plugged into him. Hence Neo sacrificed himself for the Machines, the Zionites and the Matrix Programs by being the connection for Smiths deletion. His ability to destroy sentinels was much like his ability to seperate his body from his mind, it was like a sort of hacking of their code with his mind.

Well ask me anyone questions and I'm sure I can answer them with plausible answers. One last note, don't bother writing alternate endings for Revolutions, they always end up crap and have nowhere near the same effect the Real thing had.

Well I think your name suits you. You definetly are a kid and as far as Hungarian goes I think you should change your name to Starvation Kid. Because you are definelty starving in the intellectual department. In case you hadn't noticed this portion of the forum is for those of us who do not pray to your Wachowski Brother Gods. This is for those of us with some REAL intelligence and not AI. Once you grow up and become a man instead of a kid then come back and talk to me.

You proceeded to call me an "Idiot" which is certainly characteristic of a juvenile. What do you do for a living kid? I hope its not teaching English Literature. I happen to make a great living at writing for the masses. I have many years experience in writing and have even been published. So I think I have a fairly reasonable amount of insight into what makes up a COMPLETE story.

The Matrix Revolutions did not fill in the blanks that they opened up which in the motion picture buisness is called a "cliffhanger" or a "bater." That means that they have every intention of making another movie. At least I hope this is the case. Because if they do not make another movie and answer some very important questions that they OBVIOUSLY left unanswered then Reloaded and Revolutions would amount to nothing more than a piece of literary crap.

Now it amazes me why people who worship the Matrix movies and refer to them as complete and concluded would even bother wasting their time in this particular portion of the forum. I suspect its because deep down and I mean way deep down inside their shallow illiterate minds is a piece of intelligence just trying to break free. They must see the title of this portion of the forum and that little pee sized intelligence portion of there brain that has not been overtaken by special effects and hooplah is saying, "hmmmm that really didn't end....I thought that the ONE was supposed to bring and END to the Matrix and free Zion according to the first movie....but hm the Matrix is not ended as a matter of fact it has just been reborn and the Zionists are free for the moment but even the Oracle and the Architect agree that this peace between machine and man is temporary...and then there's Neo....Is he dead or is he alive?....well he can't be dead because the Oracle told that little program girl that yes we would see him again sometime."

Now I loved The Matrix the first movie. It was a very unique story with great special effects and it had closure. At this point they(the Wacho. Bros.) should've stayed right there and moved on to a new project. But then they did Reloaded which I thought was great but it to started off flawed. It was flawed because when we left the first movie Neo had such control of the Matrix that he could run and enter into and agent and explode them. But when Reloaded comes on Neo seems to be more of a cocky legend in his own mind and less powerful....but I guess that was due to the Agents being upgraded....ha ha. Neo was supposed to have such power in the Matrix which the realization of that power was made clear at the end of the first Matrix when even the walls warped from Neo's control over it. But in Reloaded and Revolutions his power or control of the Matrix is so greatly dimished that it's humorous.

Now just for your information if you watch Annimatrix you'll find out that "The Kid" is named Michael and he was the first and only one to free himself from the Matrix. He didn't have to take the Red pill.

I own just about everything there is regarding the story of the Matrix. The Wacho Bros. are the ones who said to take every thing you see and put them in order of their releasments to gather the complete story. So that means The Matrix, Reloaded, Revolutions, Enter The Matrix game, and Annimatrix.

The Wacho. Bros. decided to make more money by filling in some blanks in their Trilogy with a vidoe game which gives us additional scenes which I'm sure we will find on the DVD of Revolutions when its released next month, and more info in an annimi.

unfortunately all those things considered does not make up for the type of ending the Revolutions had. I can almost guarantee that there will be another movie.

Furthermore; if I'm an idiot because I think that Revolutions if left as it is crap then so be it for I am in great company. For just about every single major movie reviewer out there from the New York Times to RollingStone magazine thinks exactly the way i do. If fact I've been much kinder than most of those critics.

So if you're pleased with the hype and not the literary value of the movie then so be it. Go and buy more Matrix related stuff and keep paying your tithes to your Wacho Bros God. I'll spend my money on more worthy causes.

As far as my alternate endings go? Hey I'm the first one to admit that they are no masterpieces but at leaste my endings were if fact an ENDING. I even wrote another one in this forum called "A Not So Disney Ending." Hell, I might even write another one because Hungarian Kid there are possibly hundreds of ways that what was supposed to be the ending of the Matrix couldn've been written that would blow Revolutions out of the water. The way that movie ended was so assinine that only those who are truly anal retentive could've appresiated it and love it completely as it is.

But hey thank you for your kind words of encouragement.



Happy Matrixing


Ron

"It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

Marcdaniel wrote:

Good evening Ron. I actually liked that ending. Although it didn't answer everything for me and personally I was hoping for not another matrix within a matrix within a matrix or game, I believe it would still have made a better climax that what we saw. I do like the idea of the machine vs the human in a game though and the ZION acronym. Well done my friend. Thank you for sharing that. -Md

Thank you for your kind words. I like others in this thread feel that this ending I wrote was a little to "froo-froo" and typical so I wrote the other ending under the thread titled "A Not So Disney Ending"

I really like my second one better than this one but I still like your ending better than both of mine. Keep up the writing and just slap the monkeys like Hungarian Kid down and throw them a bannana the peel will keep their simplistic minds entertained for hours.


Anyway stay in touch I'm getting ready to read that story you sent me in PM right now. I'll give ya feedback on it after I've chewed it and digested a little.


Take Care

Ron

No problems at all Ron, it was the truth.

Thanks, and I do like the second one better too. You also keep up your writing. In regards to some, I will always try to be nice, but sometimes throwing a banana is too much effort. Some (from reading a few posts) won't even bother reading other peoples views on things and so I have decided to do that. There are some people that I have an internal filter on and just completely skip their post and reply to the one's who have bothered to read and digest things I say (they do not have to agree). Perhaps you should take a similar approach and put up the filter. I actually got the idea from reading a M3 lovers posts. He said in a couple of posts now, "I will not read it cause I love M3 and respect it" so I figured, 'Fantastic Idea' let's just not bother with people like this and converse with those who do want to engage in the conversation and read. Any how, that's only my latest thought.

As for the other story, glad it reached you ok. I will converse via IM with you about it. There is a bit to digest and chew over though and it could go many ways from many different angles and view points. Complete 180 could be thrown in to stir it up a bit.

I look forward to your IM's.

Take Care Ron.

-Md

The_Matrix_Terminated, hmmm. Its all very well to disagree with Hungarian Kid's (valid) point but all you've done is make entirely speculated personal attacks.
The ending was complete minus a few tiny miniscule details. The Wach Bros are trying to be different, making the movies seem less one dimentional. I mean life doesnt just have one linear story. Its putting you in their world. If everything got resolved in that one movie it would seem rushed and stupid "oh and tank was killed in a car accident, and the machines are actually sock puppets"etc.
You people are conformists and are never happy

Good evening Shawlee, how are you?

I agree that a lot of personal attacks were made, however, a lot of valid points were also made.

See, there is the difference: You believe the ending was complete minus a few tiny miniscule details, where as we believe it was not complete.

Absolutely true, life does not have just one linear story, life also has it's conclusion.

Were were placed in their world from the beginning. Are you saying that the W.Bro's world is one without answers? Because for us, the final movie did not answer many things and was far from complete (complete being relative to each of our own interpretations of previous events)

Um, rushed and stupid? That is how I currently view the final movie. It was a linear plot that was rushed and did not have the degree of complexity the previous one did and did not go to the level the previous one had, in essence, skipping over certain levels.

To my knowedge the actor who played Tank asked for more money, had a bif of a tiff, was arrested with a picture used as evidence against him that was taken from another film of his and is now in legal preceedings (or perhaps he has finished with them).... and so they replaced him and the explaination of 'I lost two brothers' was more than adequate for me. These type of questions are not what we are (well I at least am not) refering to.

If the machines were sock puppets I'd been even more dissapointed. But then again, it depends on if it was explained well and written well doesn't it?

We are conformists?
You think we are people who uncritically (not using critical standards or methods, as in evaluation) or habitually (the nature of a habit/by force of habit) conform to the customs, rules, or styles of a group?
- Are you absolutely sure about your statement?

We are never happy?
- This is most definately not true. Yes we are not happy with the conclusion, but that does not mean we are never happy.

thank you for your observations. But let me say this: I had absolutely no problems with any of the Matrix movies until the last 7 minutes of the story...what was supposed to be the closure. I am all for being different but they could still have been different and brought true closure to the story which they did not. All one has to do is read some of the greatest novels ever written and see that there is a methodical way of great literature. Every Proffessor of literary works will tell you that the story MUST have a beginng, a middle, and an end. The Matrix when considered as a whole had a great beginning, a fantastic middle, but lacked the a solid ending. I'm not saying it had to be a happy happy joyful ending...just an ending that made sense with the totallity of the story.


This ending did not. In my mind it's like Revolutions....it has totally been left open for sequals which is fine if that is your intention. But when you walk around claiming this is it...its the final chapter....its done and over with and you end it that way that's where the problem lyes.

Now I may have come down on Hungarian Kid a little harsh but it was merely cause and effect(pun entended)

Remember he lashed out at me calling me a moron and an idiot for posting something in a place in which it is appropriate to post. I wouldn't go to a thread dedicated to making posts of why Revolutios was the perfect ending and post what I've posted here because that would be inappropriate. When people like Hungarian Kid come in here and do such things their intentions are merely to stir up trouble because people don't believe things the way they feel they should believe them. So his/hers intentions were only to come in and slam, hurt, and put down someone not be constructive in any way.

My good friend marcdaniel says that I should just filter those people out. But people are different. I feel that if everyone kept their mouth shut everytime and injustice was being done then any all human rights would eventually be handed over to those who feel that people should bow to their point of view. Well those people in the political rhealm have a name that describes their behavior it's called "dictatorship" and I am not the silient type and will not be bullied or ridiculed in a vain attempt for me to abandon what I feel is right all on account of someone's vain attempt to silence me. I don't work that way it's not my nature.

I find it interesting that He/She was extremely rude to me first and all you could find to do was chastise me for it. Where is your message to Hungarian Kid in regards to him disagreeing but he shouldn't have been so rude in doing so?

Human behavior never ceaces to amaze me.


Take Care

Ron

BTW I wasn't upset that Hungarian Kid disagreed with me I was upset at his rudeness and total lack of any respect.

Hi Ron,

I don't think you shold filter people out who will in some way harm others, I'm merely referring to the forum itself and if others don't want to read your views or research something and simply reply with a useless statement like, 'Watch the movie again cause you don't understand it' then this really doesn't deserve in my opinion any of your time or energy. So by turning the filter on, perhaps (hopefully) not only will you not waste your own time and energy, but it may motivate the person replying to you to read up on something you've said or suggested and offer a reasonable counterpoint to it worthy of the energy and time you put in originally. If not, then you've lost nothing. Either way it is a win:win situation for you. If the said person doesn't, then you will talk to people who do, if the said person does, then you will talk to an additional person who does. However, if the view in some way harms others, then of course, stand up and voice it and fight against it.

I hope that clears up what I meant?

Cheers,
-Md

Shit.. I just wasted an hour and a half writing a post only to have my stupid internet explorer crash on me.. so I lost it all.. I'll try and recall everything I wrote.

Hi The_Matrix_Terminated,

I'll start by saying that i LOVED Revolutions, I really did.. BUT when I came out of the cinema, the 1st thing I thought was that a lot of people are gonna hate it. I can truly understand that some people will not appreciate the way Revolutions played out.. and that's fine.. everyone is entitled to their opinion. However there are a few things you said that I have issues with:

Quote:

they weren't quite done milking this cash cow and so Revolutions needed to be left wide open for a fourth movie. I can almost guarantee that there will be another movie.

I don't agree with you on this one. The Matrix was always conceived as a trilogy and the Wachowskis pitched all three movies to Warner Brothers way back when nobody knew who they were. WB had no idea how successful they were going to be, so they just bought the 1st movie.. they didn't really understand the movies, so they were testing the water. In fact, the Wachowskis hadn't directed a movie yet, so they had to make the excellent Bound in order to prove that they could make a movie. Revolutions did not provide the closure that you so desperately seek.. but there are good reasons for doing so, which I will address later.. but one thing is for sure.. there is not going to be a Matrix 4.. at LEAST.. not in the way you are describing it. The story from where Revolutions ends will be continued with the MMORPG Matrix Online which they are hoping to release this later this year.

Quote:

if I'm an idiot because I think that Revolutions if left as it is crap then so be it for I am in great company. For just about every single major movie reviewer out there from the New York Times to RollingStone magazine thinks exactly the way i do. If fact I've been much kinder than most of those critics.

Quite frankly, the opinion of critics is wholly irrelevant. Movies, like music or any other art - are extremely subjective in nature. All art is essentially to provoke an emotional reaction, whether positive or negative.. depending on your own opinion, you either dig it or you don't. Going back to the music analogy.. just because an artist might get slated by critics doesn't stop that artist from having legions of dedicated fans. But even if they just get through to a handful of people, inspire them or make them happy.. then who are we to tell them otherwise?

Quote:

So if you're pleased with the hype and not the literary value of the movie then so be it. Go and buy more Matrix related stuff and keep paying your tithes to your Wacho Bros God. I'll spend my money on more worthy causes.

It's fine to hold your own opinion and dislike the way the movies ended, but that doesn't give you a right to be condescending to others who do not share your views.

Quote:

The way that movie ended was so assinine that only those who are truly anal retentive could've appresiated it and love it completely as it is.

I don't care what your views are.. I love these movies.. but I would never call you a narrow-minded fool for not liking them. Likewise, just because you didn't enjoy Revolutions doesn't mean you can just make assumptions about the nature and character of millions of people that you know NOTHING about.

You say that Revolutions didn't provide you the closure you were looking for. To me.. I always felt that giving us an ending to the trilogy served to us on a plate would be akin to having the Wachowskis tell, preach, or dictate to us what the nature of reality and existence. The trilogy is a reconciliation of all the ways in which the human mind has tried to explain or justify our existence - philosophy, religion, mathematics and science. It ended the way it did for a reason.. because in reality.. life goes on.. if there's anything we learned from Reloaded, it was that the individual struggle and battle of the characters that we grew to love was in fact a very small drop in an infinitely large ocean that is existence. Few, if any other movies have tried to explain the wider context of its story in this way.

The Wachowskis made a very uncompromising trilogy.. they took some risks and didn't choose the linear path.. knowing full well that they would alienate some people.. I feel that even those who didn't enjoy the ending can at least appreciate their sheer stubborness not to take the easy way out. Just because they didn't adhere to what you describe as the "rules" of storytelling.. then so what? If the brother hadn't been willing to innovate and tread a new path in their movies and take risks.. the entire trilogy wouldn't have been the same, including the 1st movie. Not everyone's gonna like it.. but when does everyone agree on anything?

The fact is.. the story did have some closure.. and it does have a beginning a middle and an end.. Neo's story was brought to an end.. and with it the end of another cycle of the matrix also draws to a close. But with the end, also begins the next cycle.. and so the eternal cycle begins again.

(I wrote a hell of a lot more the 1st time, but I can't be bothered writing it all back out again.. you get the jist of it.)

wAkE_uP_nEo wrote:

Shit.. I just wasted an hour and a half writing a post only to have my stupid internet explorer crash on me.. so I lost it all.. I'll try and recall everything I wrote. Hi The_Matrix_Terminated, I'll start by saying that i LOVED Revolutions, I really did.. BUT when I came out of the cinema, the 1st thing I thought was that a lot of people are gonna hate it. I can truly understand that some people will not appreciate the way Revolutions played out.. and that's fine.. everyone is entitled to their opinion. However there are a few things you said that I have issues with: Quote: they weren't quite done milking this cash cow and so Revolutions needed to be left wide open for a fourth movie. I can almost guarantee that there will be another movie. I don't agree with you on this one. The Matrix was always conceived as a trilogy and the Wachowskis pitched all three movies to Warner Brothers way back when nobody knew who they were. WB had no idea how successful they were going to be, so they just bought the 1st movie.. they didn't really understand the movies, so they were testing the water. In fact, the Wachowskis hadn't directed a movie yet, so they had to make the excellent Bound in order to prove that they could make a movie. Revolutions did not provide the closure that you so desperately seek.. but there are good reasons for doing so, which I will address later.. but one thing is for sure.. there is not going to be a Matrix 4.. at LEAST.. not in the way you are describing it. The story from where Revolutions ends will be continued with the MMORPG Matrix Online which they are hoping to release this later this year. Quote: if I'm an idiot because I think that Revolutions if left as it is crap then so be it for I am in great company. For just about every single major movie reviewer out there from the New York Times to RollingStone magazine thinks exactly the way i do. If fact I've been much kinder than most of those critics. Quite frankly, the opinion of critics is wholly irrelevant. Movies, like music or any other art - are extremely subjective in nature. All art is essentially to provoke an emotional reaction, whether positive or negative.. depending on your own opinion, you either dig it or you don't. Going back to the music analogy.. just because an artist might get slated by critics doesn't stop that artist from having legions of dedicated fans. But even if they just get through to a handful of people, inspire them or make them happy.. then who are we to tell them otherwise? Quote: So if you're pleased with the hype and not the literary value of the movie then so be it. Go and buy more Matrix related stuff and keep paying your tithes to your Wacho Bros God. I'll spend my money on more worthy causes. It's fine to hold your own opinion and dislike the way the movies ended, but that doesn't give you a right to be condescending to others who do not share your views. Quote: The way that movie ended was so assinine that only those who are truly anal retentive could've appresiated it and love it completely as it is. I don't care what your views are.. I love these movies.. but I would never call you a narrow-minded fool for not liking them. Likewise, just because you didn't enjoy Revolutions doesn't mean you can just make assumptions about the nature and character of millions of people that you know NOTHING about. You say that Revolutions didn't provide you the closure you were looking for. To me.. I always felt that giving us an ending to the trilogy served to us on a plate would be akin to having the Wachowskis tell, preach, or dictate to us what the nature of reality and existence. The trilogy is a reconciliation of all the ways in which the human mind has tried to explain or justify our existence - philosophy, religion, mathematics and science. It ended the way it did for a reason.. because in reality.. life goes on.. if there's anything we learned from Reloaded, it was that the individual struggle and battle of the characters that we grew to love was in fact a very small drop in an infinitely large ocean that is existence. Few, if any other movies have tried to explain the wider context of its story in this way. The Wachowskis made a very uncompromising trilogy.. they took some risks and didn't choose the linear path.. knowing full well that they would alienate some people.. I feel that even those who didn't enjoy the ending can at least appreciate their sheer stubborness not to take the easy way out. Just because they didn't adhere to what you describe as the "rules" of storytelling.. then so what? If the brother hadn't been willing to innovate and tread a new path in their movies and take risks.. the entire trilogy wouldn't have been the same, including the 1st movie. Not everyone's gonna like it.. but when does everyone agree on anything? The fact is.. the story did have some closure.. and it does have a beginning a middle and an end.. Neo's story was brought to an end.. and with it the end of another cycle of the matrix also draws to a close. But with the end, also begins the next cycle.. and so the eternal cycle begins again. (I wrote a hell of a lot more the 1st time, but I can't be bothered writing it all back out again.. you get the jist of it.)

Wake_up_Neo

I really appreciated the tact and the class you've shown in respoding to me. I Hungariian Kid would've responded in like manner I would have responded toe him/her in the same manner. You are right that I shouldn't make genarlizations just because one person was very rude to me. As far as responding tho Hungarian Kid the way I did....given that in his response I was called a "moron" an "idiot" and "stupid" I think a that his condesending remarks that he made me were deserving of nothing less than the same being returned back to him. However, I do apologize for catagorizing everyone who doesn't see the ending of Revolutions as I do as being anal retentive and soforth. Those comments are meant to be directed to the KID for his complete lack of tact and extreme rudeness.

Now as far as the movies go please note that I have said over and over again that I was extremely satisfied with all of the movies until the very end of Revolutions. Let me explain why as best as I can.


I was a NewsAnchor for a Radio Station for 3 years. I did alot of news writing and news editing. How pissed off would you get if or when you here a story that has captured your interest and you really are or were expecting a solid outcome to the story?

Perhaps that's my problem...when someone tells me they are bringing in finality to a story that I have been following be it fiction or non fiction I expect a solid ending.

Revolutions was anything but a solid ending...rather they ended it with a beginng to a new Matrix which by definition of the writers and not by me was not what the ONE was going to bring in. The ONE was supposed to bring an end....meaning the Matrix is gone....is no more....destroyed. But that's not what happened so since NEO didn't fulfill that role then the writers violated the rules of their own story and expects us to abide by them....well I don't buy it. Why should I take them seriously when they don't take themselves seriously.

I can assure you that there are far more people who thought the ending of Revolutions was dead. Those who loved it are in an extreme minority and that's fine if that's your target audience. But the Wacho. Bros. audience in general expected much more....they expected what was promised by the writers and most of us speaking for myself more specifically did not receive those promises. The special Fx in Reloaded were far more pheonominal than those of Revolutions. I laughed when I saw the army of Zionists in their fighting machines befcause the CGI illuminated the screen with such obviousness. I mean Aliens did a much better job on a machine that Ripley used that was far more believable and was much more eye appealling.

And on the subject that just because most people believe something to be art or not art and the minority believes the opposite? I have no problem with that. But think about this: an intelligent human being would not go to a Marilyn Manson concert full of people who love him and stand in the crowd shouting out how much they hated him and how much they think people who enjoy his music are idiots or morons and yet that is exactly what Hungarian Kid did and many others who just think that Matrix Revolutions was an absolute piece of art to them. That's fine why not stay in the forum that discusses that instead of coming into a a place on the forum for those who do not feel that way? The only resean for that is to condesend those that feel the way I and so many others do. I make it a point NOT to go to the place and post in this forum where people just loved Revolutions in its entirety. I'm not looking for a fight or a chance to belittle people that came knocking on my door.

And I will say to you as I said to the other Revolutions supporter above....where is your chastisement of Hungarian Kid for condecending me in the first place. Where is your instructon to that person to use tact. Don't you think the Revolutioners appear one-sided?


Thank you

Ron

I am not criticising Hungarian Kid because I think you are over reacting a bit, taking a bit too much offense to a few offhand comments said in a forum. Just ignore that and you will see he has a valid point.
Anyway it all comes down to you thinking the Wach Bros made a bad ending, just because it doesnt conform. I mean you EXPECTED the machines to be destroyed and the One to end all of it. But thats not what happened and you seem to be so annoyed by something that wanted to seperate itself from the crowd. Like I said before the things that were left open were so trivial. The ending was very bittersweet and left you with an air of futility (also good) try to think of it more as NEO saving mankind from SMITH and Zion from the machines than ending the Matrix.


Try not to conform.

I would like to apologise for my insults earlier on, I am just annoyed at certain people constantly badgering me about Matrix answers that were so thoroughly explained, seeing people try to rewrite the ending just annoys me even further. Calling me illiterate is quite far off from the truth, but I guess you do point out some truths about how Revolutions was made but it fits into a kind of Arty genre and I myself am quite an arty person. Calling me "starvation kid" was not witty in anyway and removing hungarian from my name was far more insulting considering my routes and my dislike for dis-appreciation for those routes although you did not say anything bad about the Hungarian people in anyway, I still dis-aprove of it. Back to my point, it did end in a way that other movies could be made following it, but I said befor they're only going as far as making another Animatrix and a few games. You implyed I worship the Wachowski brothers, well I do worship they're style of writing witch can be interpreted onto many levels. They themselves are just people and no one, unless performing an amazing feat like ridding starvation deserves to be worshipped. Because you are a writer your self I am amazed you are challenging the end of the Matrix, you must know the ways of leaving people in suspense or dis-belief. You can't just let people leave a cinema un-emotional, thats just not what cinema, a form of art is all about. You say I merely like it for the special effects, everyone enjoyed the special effects but I like the movies for deepere aspects then just that. Shock, excitement, realism and no cliched Hollywood themes that occur in just about every movie today wether it be a comedy or another Hugh Grant film were he so always "charmingly befuddled". I also appreciate the films for the great acting from such actors as Hugo Weaving, one of my idols and Keanu Reeves who for once wasn't typed cast ( I'm not saying he's a great actor but he did play the role of Neo quite well.) If the Wachowskis did make another movie, my respect for them would fall greatly. But artists will occasionly have their blunders, but you can always remember them for their best work. You say I'm a kid, I am not a kid and I will not give out my age, but the name Hungarian Kid also has many meanings but you have just taken one of them and insulted me with it. Calling me unitelligent, well I think you should really look at yourself and wonder if you are the illiterate fool with the limitated mind. You might find a plafora of people who will agree with me and a plafora of people who think you are intelligent merely by the things you say and what you claim to do, that agree with you. Artists and self implyed artists are clearly different.

Ron

Quote:

Don't you think the Revolutioners appear one-sided?

Yes, you have a fair point and one for which I apologise.. my original post mentioned that I didn't think it was fair that you were subjected to abuse also, but I overlooked quite a few things when I rewrote it.. my final dissertation is due tomorrow, so I was really in a rush when I rewrote it.. not to mention pissed off that I lost the original after typing for so long!

With regards to how you feel about the ending.. I promise you.. I can really understand where you're coming from. Like I said.. I could see the critical backlash coming from the moment I first saw it, even though I do not agree. When I came out of the cinema.. I actually felt kinda numb.. I didn't know how to feel.. but this was largely to do with the sadness I felt that the Matrix ride had finally come to end.. (sad I know).. but as it began to sink in, I really felt that Revolutions was a beautiful movie.. one which was much more emotionally affecting than I had anticipated.

You say that the Wachowskis didn't follow the rules of their own story.. but isn't it the case (and this is of course only my opinion) that Reloaded exposed the prophecy as being not quite all that it was thought to be? In the 1st movie, it finishes with Neo demonstrating his new-found superhuman abilities within the matrix and we're all thinking.. damn he's really gonna kick some machine ass and show them who's the daddy.. but for all his powers.. the moment Neo gets to the Architect's room, all that is blown away in one jaw-dropping speech and what we're left with is doubt.. Neo even tells Morpheus that the prophecy was just another system of control.. but when we get to Revolutions, we realise that it is not entirely a lie either. The One was meant to bring about the end of the war, which he did.. the way in which he did this was not how anyone had anticipated or expected, but he still ended the war.. what we never realised until the end was that it was actually ridiculous all along to have expected Neo to destroy the machines...

Quote:

Trinity: Do you believe that Neo is going to end the war? Ghost: Yes, I do. Trinity: So do I... but I can't explain how or why. Ghost: Kierkegaard reminds us that belief has nothing to do with how or why. Belief is beyond reason. I believe because it is absurd. Trinity: You think it's crazy to believe it? Ghost: To believe what? That a single man can defeat an entire race of machines and end a war that has endured for over a hundred years? Of course. It's complete lunacy and that's why we must believe it will happen. Faith, by its very nature, must transcend logic.

Whether or not you liked the ending.. I feel the statement about the Wachowskis not taking themselves seriously is a bit unfair. I really don't feel that they "violated the rules of their own story". Throughout the whole trilogy, they had a way of making us think a certain way before pulling the rug away from our feet.. you obviously didn't like that, but I felt the brothers really did keep us guessing right til the very end. I mean for example, the plot device with Smith and the eyes of the Oracle was genius in my opinion.. I really did think it was well written.. kinda similar to the method they employed in Bound where the audience is given an insight into a future event, but the significance of which we are left to guess throughout the course of the movie as the plot unfolds.

You talk about the special effects being poor and you give the example of the APU's in Zion.. comparing it to Aliens.. but the task in hand was much greater for the Matrix team.. while you pointed out how the APUs looked fake because the CGI was obvious.. you have also overlooked that with the exception of the actors inside the APUs.. 90% of EVERYTHING else on the screen.. including the background is also CGI. I always felt that the criticisms of special FX in the sequels have been unfair. People criticised the Burly Brawl in Reloaded for using a digital Neo.. and yes.. its not 100% photo-realistic yet.. but when have you ever seen anything like that? Look back at special effects just 10 years ago and see how much we've come along.. until Reloaded NOBODY had ever been able to employ a digital human in a movie before.. again, in those scene people were always able to point out how Neo looked fake, but failed to realise that there were some shots in there.. which were 100% CGI.. in Revolutions, the siege of zion sequence is nothing like anything which has ever graced a cinema screen.. we're not yet at a stage where you cannot tell the difference, but we are getting there..

but ok.. even still, you didn't like the effects and that's fair enough.. but if there's one thing you cannot fault the brothers for.. its lack of effort.. credit where credit's due.. for the siege of Zion sequence alone.. the last 2 months before its release.. the Wachowskis plus the key members of the special FX team spent all day, everyday looking at the entire sequence FRAME-BY-FRAME examining every layer of the shot.. some shots of that sequence contain EIGHT HUNDRED layers.. can you imagine looking at 800 layers of shots individually, for EVERY frame of a sequence that's like 12-14 mins long or something like that.. knowing that if something is wrong with 1 layer, it can ruin the whole shot.. and that's just one sequence.. approximately 1/3 of Revolutions was created AFTER live action filming. The trilogy is definitely something of a labour of love for the Wachowskis and I do think its unfair to criticise the efforts they put into it.. since the start of the trilogy they have been working 14+ hours a day on their vision and I for one applaud their sheer determination and ambition in making their vision a reality if nothing else.. and this applies to every aspect of the movie.. not just the special FX.

The way you're expressing things makes it sound like they were lazy about it, or they didn't put much thought into it.. but bear in mind, this has been the result of nearly every one of their creative thoughts for the last 10 years.. they started making notebooks filled with ideas which would eventually form the basis of the trilogy in 1993 and they did not stop working on it until Revolutions was released.. does that sound to you like they did not take their story seriously? I know it doesn't seem that way to me.

Feel free to let me know your thoughts/comments.

Hugarian Kid wrote -

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I would like to apologise for my insults earlier on

That's the spirit my friend. Insults don't get any of us anywhere, I'm afraid.

We all have to understand that we are here for the same reason - the love of The Matrix.
We have to understand that we are all different regarding our opinions and therefore will clash from time to time. However resorting to insults is not going to sort anything out and if anything will result in even more animosity... Now lets all be friends

group hug anyone?

First of all to Hungarian Kid. Thank you for your apology and it is sincerly accepted. I too apologize for over reacting to your comments. Now to you and to Wake_Up-Neo I have this to say.


I LOVE everything about the Matrix. I mean I have purchased everything I can get my hands on pertaining to it. I even have the vinyl poster of Reloaded that I got from the Manager of a Hollywood Video store.

I do believe these movies to be a great achievement in so many regards. But the achievements and the great things about the whole Matrix pheonomina is not what this area of the forum is for. It's for the discussion of what we feel was lacking or what would have made it "better" for the audience.

Yes it is true that I feel the ending of Revolutions is literary crap. I don't feel this way because it didn't end with the destruction of the machines because I didn't know wether Neo was the ONE or not.

I could care less if the machines were destroyed or not. What I do care about is the answer to wether NEO is the ONE since that's pretty much the main theme of the movie. If the story was written clearly then there would not be so much disagreement from one person to the next as to wether Neo is the ONE or not. Some people say he was and yet others say he wasn't. What has created such a great misunderstanding in this regard? Well the ending to Revolutions of course.

The ending is so confusing to the masses that Shakespear is more easily understood. I mean when you consider Romeo and Juliet we all know that they both commit suicide because they can't be together. There's nobody walking around saying hhm did they really commit suicide or were they murdered or maybe they just faked it and they actually went off and lived happily ever after.

Now, I don't have any problem with people who think the Matrix Trilogy is perfect in every way. If I were one of those I wouldn't even bother with this section of the forum.

The fact that I would've like to have had a solid ending be it Neo is not the ONE or he is doesn't matter...just as long as it's clear and consice. I mean Neo could've used his powers outside the Matrix to just destroy the AI chips in the machines and not the machines themselves or the machines could've wiped out Zion and built a new Matrix leaving us with the impression that NOTHING could ever stop the machines and I would've been just perfectly fine with that.

My problem is and its my only problem with the Trilogy is that it ended in such a way as not so much as to make one think and ponder the outcome but rather it leaves people in a state of confussion which is why our conversation is taking place right now on this matter. But not just here but across so many forums across the web and in our social circles.

Instead of gathering with our peers and discussing what a great Trilogy this was most conversations regarding it focuses on the ending of Revolutions with this very question at the heart of it..."What does that ending mean?"

Now some may view this as "artsy" or clever. But when given its accurate definition this type of ending based on the reactions of the viewers can only be labled as "confussing." For if were not a clear ending, with bad or good end being non essential, then this portion of the forum would have no need of exsistence.

Take Care


Ron

Hi Ron,

With regards to the ending, I don't need to say anymore.. you didn't enjoy it and that's totally fine.. I have absolutely no doubts towards your love for the Matrix.. but I thought perhaps I would help to try and shed some light on the burning question which you felt was a major sticking point of Revolutions.

You said that Revolutions doesn't conclusively reveal whether Neo is the One, but I'd like to ask you to try and put that aside for a minute and instead consider the question from a different perspective..

Obviously, many things are left unclear at the end of Revolutions.. that I don't dispute.. but the issue of whether or not Neo is the one has always been crystal to me.. I see it like this..

Neo IS the One.. I honestly don't feel that is open to question.. instead.. what is open to question is whether or not the One is everything we were led to believe he is.. and I think some people are confusing the two.

The prophesy simply stated that the One would bring about the end of the war between man and machine. In Revolutions, Neo accomplished this. Whether or not it is in the manner in which we expected or as absolute as we expected, is irrelevant. The prophesy as we know.. only told us so much. It was made by the Oracle. What is debatable is whether the Oracle is the do-gooder we thought she was, or whether she is simply another method of control.

So the real question is not.. "Was Neo is the One?". But instead.. was the prophesy of the One in fact a false hope.. or a deception to make humans believe they would win? Isn't this the more relevant issue to be addressed?

Ok, so maybe now you're saying.. "well either way, we still don't know".. and you referred to Shakespeare and Romeo & Juliet, but isn't that a bit of a spurious argument? Yes, Romeo & Juliet is a great piece of work and Shakespeare is considered one of the great literary figures of all time, but just because he didn't leave his work with open-ended interpretation, does that mean everyone HAS follow suit? Art by its very nature, should always attempt to reinvent itself.. otherwise, after all these thousands of years, do you think we'd still have an original story to tell? Even if you put this argument aside.. there is still a strong argument that endings which are left open to interpretation can still be as strong.. or sometimes even stronger than a conclusive one. Consider such great movies as "The Thing" or "The Usual Suspects" which definitely left things open to much debate at the end.. but did that make them bad?

I'm happier to accept that you didn't like the ending because you simply didn't enjoy it.