»Confronting "the anomaly"«

the anomaly wrote:

The matrix that collapsed did not contain the code that stabalised the matrix which is inherent in neo and vital for relative stablility "your life is the remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to thr programming of the matrix" this implies that the code was created and inserted into a human in order to balance an equation that would allow the matrix to work with great but not perfect efficiency

I've been perousing the forums for a while now, and this has cropped up over and over again in your explanations as to the emergence of the One itself. I have to question it. I'll get to the direct question at the end of this post. Read on.

You claim that there was a code created to 'balance' the Matrix to a certain degree. This accounts for Neo powers.

The Oracle re-designed the Matrix, offering a subconscious choice to its population. This choice was to either accept or not accept its programming. The simple presence of such a choice meant that 99.99999999'% of the population accepted the program. 0.000001' Did not. This is Neo. The fact that he does NOT accept the program is what grants him the powers. The Arhitect is frustrated by this:

“You are the eventuality of an anomaly which I have thus far been unable to remove from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision”.

This is where I wish to establish what you think:

Q. Are you implying that the emergence of Neo's powers are the result of a planned design flaw on the part of the Oracle, with her fully knowing that her design would result in the emergence of one human who would not accept the program?

Or do you think that the Oracle intentionally designed the system and IMPLEMENTED the design flaw so that Neo's powers would emerge?

The first suggestion implies that it is Neo's unqiue mindset and perception that lends him the powers and The Oracles design for the Matrix simply makes use of this human unpredictability (although one does ask "How did she know that only one 'ONE' would emerge), whereas the second suggestion implies that his powers exist simply because she designed the system that way.

What are you trying to imply?

I'll reserve my opinion until you reply.

Ultimately, using the phrase "Some code was inserted into him" is wrong. The Matrix was re-designed by the Oracle to secretly cater for him, but in which way?

I don't think that any code has been input into Neo.

Quote:

The simple presence of such a choice meant that 99.99999999'% of the population accepted the program. 0.000001' Did not. This is Neo. The fact that he does NOT accept the program is what grants him the powers.

So how about the kid, Trinity, Morpheus, Niobe....
The fact that 1% don't accept their virtual life flaws the system; the fact that Neo gains deep understanding of the virtual world, grants him his powers.

Quote:

I don't think that any code has been input into Neo.

Agreed


Just my personal opinion, of course.

AzarN wrote:

the anomaly wrote: The matrix that collapsed did not contain the code that stabalised the matrix which is inherent in neo and vital for relative stablility "your life is the remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to thr programming of the matrix" this implies that the code was created and inserted into a human in order to balance an equation that would allow the matrix to work with great but not perfect efficiency I've been perousing the forums for a while now, and this has cropped up over and over again in your explanations as to the emergence of the One itself. I have to question it. I'll get to the direct question at the end of this post. Read on. You claim that there was a code created to 'balance' the Matrix to a certain degree. This accounts for Neo powers. The Oracle re-designed the Matrix, offering a subconscious choice to its population. This choice was to either accept or not accept its programming. The simple presence of such a choice meant that 99.99999999'% of the population accepted the program. 0.000001' Did not. This is Neo. The fact that he does NOT accept the program is what grants him the powers. The Arhitect is frustrated by this: “You are the eventuality of an anomaly which I have thus far been unable to remove from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision”. This is where I wish to establish what you think: Q. Are you implying that the emergence of Neo's powers are the result of a planned design flaw on the part of the Oracle, with her fully knowing that her design would result in the emergence of one human who would not accept the program? Or do you think that the Oracle intentionally designed the system and IMPLEMENTED the design flaw so that Neo's powers would emerge? The first suggestion implies that it is Neo's unqiue mindset and perception that lends him the powers and The Oracles design for the Matrix simply makes use of this human unpredictability (although one does ask "How did she know that only one 'ONE' would emerge), whereas the second suggestion implies that his powers exist simply because she designed the system that way. What are you trying to imply? I'll reserve my opinion until you reply. Ultimately, using the phrase "Some code was inserted into him" is wrong. The Matrix was re-designed by the Oracle to secretly cater for him, but in which way?

point 1 ...it is 99% and not 99.999999% that do not accept the programming

if the matrix is based on the world in 1999 the the 1% who do not accept the programme would equate to 50,000,000 people who by your own explanation would have the same powers as neo but do not

please explain

once again i will explain myself

NEO IS NOT THE ONE

neo is "the remainder of an ubalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix" as the architect explained

this means that his powers came about as a result of trying to balance that equation
the architect tried to balance the equation like this

when the calculations for the matrix were completed,they resulted in an unending number...as a calculator sometimes does when you input certain calculations...as i have explained before,the machines and the architect work solely on logic...remember what the oracle said about the architect..."he doesnt understanf them(the choices)he cant,to him they are varialbes in an equation,each one must be counted and solved"

unfortunately for the architect he has came across an unsolvable equation while calculating the matrix...the oracle "stumbled across a solution whereby 99% of all subject tested accepted the programming"

so in effect she realised that when an unending number occurs,a human simply rounds up in order to allow the number to exist in reality...something the architect could not do

so they implant a piece of code into a human so that the human can round up the number but it is this act that gives the human the abilities that neo has

so what i am saying to answer your above questions is this

the original matrix was flawed as it was designed on perfect mathmatics which simply could not exist

the oracle came up with a more efficient system (99% of the people accepted the programming)but this system was also inherently flawed as it resulted in the need for a human to finish the calculation for the matrix subconciously....this is why neo has always knew that "there was something wrong with the world"

the oracle did not want the emergance of the anomaly as both she and the architect knew the threat it posed "if left unchecked would threaten the system itself"

her next purpose was to find a way to control the person who contains the code

she wrote the agents and hence smith calls her "mom"
they proved unable to control the person who contains the code(neo's predeccessor)

she then came up with the prophecy which in simple terms means this

"you are the saviour of the human race...to save them you must go to the source"

when in fact as soon as the person enters the source the code is disseminated and re inserted into another person after everything the person learned about themselves is deleted...which then buys the machines more time

they then destroy zion and free another 23 people to rebuild as the machines know that it is the people in zion who are needed to remove those who reject the code and so preventing a build up of people that reject the code in the matirx...in other words..." an esculating probability of failure"

so the prophecy is a lie as neo told morpheus...it was just another system of control and "the one" as described by thr oracle was "never meant to end anything"

it is only at the end of revolutions that we see that sati has the ability to "change the matrix as she sees fit" which she does by changing the sunset

the evidence that disregards the theory that she was given a purpose by the machines is this

if she was given a purpose then why is she still hiding in the matrix as an exile and why hasnt she returned to the machine world?

thanks for the post

as for your final question

i dont believe the oracle redesigned the matrix to cater for neo(and his predeccessors

i believe they are a RESULT of the oracles design of the matrix and the whole trilogy is about how they are ultimately controlled to the befefit and continuance of the machine dominance over the planet abnd who (or what)will finally challange this dominance

That is simply how The Architect seems him, and everything as code. Neo does not have the code, he is the code. (To The Architect anyway). However, the Oracle herself belittled The Architect as being imperfect in seeing the only equasions.

The Oracle only supplied The Architect with the model (in form of idea) for him to turn into, and justify in his own mind mathematicly.

Also that stuff you would saying about an un-ending number doesn't work... they could fix that by simply using fractions. pi is not 3.14 or what ever.. it's 355/113 . That is the number when converted into decimal runs on infinitly.

Back to the point. Even in this case, there are methods where the result is not an exact match.. in most cases you want the end result to equal zero. (zero being the target) The solution was to use "The One" to fill that void, or problem.

So, I think The Architect got ahead of himself. Neo wasn't the production of an equasion, but the perfect tool to rebalance it... err sort of.

Raistath wrote:

Also that stuff you would saying about an un-ending number doesn't work... they could fix that by simply using fractions. pi is not 3.14 or what ever.. it's 355/113 . That is the number when converted into decimal runs on infinitly.

that is the problem itself

a number which runs on infinitely can only exist theoretically and cannot be used in the creation of a physical object such as the matrix...the number MUST be rounded up at some decimal point in order for it to be useful in the construction of the matrix

otherwise the architect would simlpy continue to calculate the number to an unending decimal point

neo's purpose is simply to do what humans have been doing for centuries with these numbers

round it up in order for it to exist...something no calculator can do

this result in not a perfectly accurate number as the architect would like but simply an close estimate

it is the slight varience between the theoretically perfect number needed by the matrix for total stablilty and the close estimate number resulted from neo's rounding of the number that causes the slight imbalance in the matrix and it is this which must be controlled

the anomaly:

I don't know much about mathematics. But what you say makes sense as a good theory.

thanks mobil_ave_neo

another point concerning the people who dont believe a piece of code was inserted into neo

a part of the architect speech to the best of my knowledge goes like this

"the purpose of the one is now to return to the source allowing A TEMPORARY DISSEMINATION OF THE CODE YOU CARRY reinserting the prime programme"

cheers

the anomaly

the anomaly wrote:

thanks mobil_ave_neo another point concerning the people who dont believe a piece of code was inserted into neo a part of the architect speech to the best of my knowledge goes like this "the purpose of the one is now to return to the source allowing A TEMPORARY DISSEMINATION OF THE CODE YOU CARRY reinserting the prime programme"

I think the code they carry is somehow their DNA-structure converted to digital code.
The plug is a convertor:

neural-structures <---> digital code

Maybe the code of the anomaly is based upon a certain genetic code which only one unique human can have during a lifetime-period.
This would also explain why the Architect can give the anomaly a profound attachment to the rest of his species. He just makes sure that the genetics of the anomaly make him bound to be a kind and loving person?

Anomoly - Do you think that the matrix continued after Revolutions, loading into the 7th version?

Mobil_Ave_Neo wrote:

The plug is a convertor

You've been trying to plug this theory for a while now. It's not relevant man. There is no reference to it in the films. Let it go.

Emilee wrote:

Anomoly - Do you think that the matrix continued after Revolutions, loading into the 7th version?

Yes, it did. We see it at the end and it is the setting for "The Matrix Online" Game.

More to come.

AzarN wrote:

Mobil_Ave_Neo wrote: The plug is a convertor You've been trying to plug this theory for a while now. It's not relevant man. There is no reference to it in the films. Let it go.

I did it only three times around the forum.
Don't command me just like that. Respect it please.

Morpheus says that the Matrix is a neural-interactive simulation. So there has to be some level of conversion. They don't have to explain the technical details in the movie.

How can YOU explain that they look exactly like they look in the Real World even if they never ever saw themselves. Neo's eyes hurt in M1, because he never used them. So there must be some DNA/genetic conversion of their looks to make them appear in the Matrix.

And how can you explain Smith going into Bane? Must have been some kind of neural-conversion.

Quote:

it is only at the end of revolutions that we see that sati has the ability to "change the matrix as she sees fit" which she does by changing the sunset the evidence that disregards the theory that she was given a purpose by the machines is this if she was given a purpose then why is she still hiding in the matrix as an exile and why hasnt she returned to the machine world?

You have no proof that Sati is an exile. If the matrix reloaded after Revolutions, then wouldn't agents be chasing Sati if she was an exile? Plus, I didn't see Neo painting sunsrises for Trinity in the matrix, or changing how things looked. There is a program to run everything in the matrix, including sunrises. Sati now is a program with a purpose.

Emilee wrote:

Quote: You have no proof that Sati is an exile. If the matrix reloaded after Revolutions, then wouldn't agents be chasing Sati if she was an exile? Plus, I didn't see Neo painting sunsrises for Trinity in the matrix, or changing how things looked. There is a program to run everything in the matrix, including sunrises. Sati now is a program with a purpose.

i dont need proof directly...surely if she has a purpose then she would return to the machine world to be with her parents...the whole point of her being in the matrix was she was an exile who was goig to be deleted

as for you saying that we didnt see neo changing sunrises for trinity...THATS MY POINT EXACTLY...

the prophecys only point that is directly attributed to the "one" is the ability to "change the matrix as they see fit"

if you look at the rest of the prophecy you see that the events happen on the same time scale as the emergence of the "one"...and are not directly attributed to the "one"

"when the matrix was first built there was a man born inside who had the ability to change whatever he wanted,to remake the matrix as he saw fit.When he died the oracle prophecised his return and that his coming would herald the destruction of the matrix and end the war"

Alright Anomaly, I enjoyed your explanation. However, ultimately, I disagree. The way I see it:

The Matrix was redesigned by the Oracle and 99% accepted it. 50,000,000 people (or whatever) didn't accept it and these are the rebels. The fluctuations and anomalies caused by this lead to the generation of The One who must return to the Source for his code to be removed from the system and proper operation to continue.

Failure to comply will lead to the generation of a system crash.

So Rhamakandra and his wife are from the machine world, not the matrix? I was always thinking they were from the matrix because I saw him in the Mero's restaurant. But that's where he was bargaining with him. OOHH. Now your theory makes a little more sense. But I still believe that the One code is inserted at birth, and Neo's code didn't get a chance to be disseminated at the source, because he was already dead. And Sati was 'born' (she is a program) too late for this theory to work. So how can the matrix survive without the One code? It doesn't need to be present all the time within the matrix does it? Do we even have proof that it is possible that the previous Ones could have been programs?

AzarN wrote:

Alright Anomaly, I enjoyed your explanation. However, ultimately, I disagree. The way I see it: The Matrix was redesigned by the Oracle and 99% accepted it. 50,000,000 people (or whatever) didn't accept it and these are the rebels. The fluctuations and anomalies caused by this lead to the generation of The One who must return to the Source for his code to be removed from the system and proper operation to continue. Failure to comply will lead to the generation of a system crash.

so if removing his code(which you apparently now believe IS the case then why didnt they just remove it for good if this results in smooth operation of the matrix?

the answer is they cant remove his code completely because it is this code that keeps the matrix functioning as well as it does
it also has the disadvantage to the machines of rendering the person who contains the code as uncontrolable by the rules of the system
the code and the person gather information that if left unchecked will threaten the stablility of the matrix through the knowledge and power because they will begin to influence other people who would otherwise accept the programming
the code therefor must be guided to the source in order for it to have a sort of memory deletion and reinsertion into a person who doesnt understand the significance of it...they then learn the significance through the rebels from zion who's sole purpose is to be unwittingly manipulated by the oracle who is in charge of getting the code back to source when it becomes a threat again
the main agent of control of the code is the prophecy

this is my explanation of it

cheers

Emilee wrote:

So Rhamakandra and his wife are from the machine world, not the matrix? I was always thinking they were from the matrix because I saw him in the Mero's restaurant. But that's where he was bargaining with him. OOHH. Now your theory makes a little more sense. But I still believe that the One code is inserted at birth, and Neo's code didn't get a chance to be disseminated at the source, because he was already dead. And Sati was 'born' (she is a program) too late for this theory to work. So how can the matrix survive without the One code? It doesn't need to be present all the time within the matrix does it? Do we even have proof that it is possible that the previous Ones could have been programs?

to answer your question further up the page emile

yes i think the matrix is in its 7th version but i dont know whether or not the imbalance caused by the code neo carried has been balanced out with the smith code

if this is the case then there will be no need for a 7th version of neo as the matrix will be balanced

if the connection neo had to the machines when fighting smith was connected to the source and the matrix has not been balanced then it is quite likely that the code has been reinserted into someone else

but i never claimed that it was sati

my theory goes on the premise that the prophecy was simply a way to control a person who is exempt from the rules of the matrix due to the code they contain
this is all neo is
he was manipulated by the oracle who tells him a story that he will save the world and to do it he must go to the source where he is then disseminated and the cycle begins again

the machines had 3 seperate problems

1:neo didnt return to the source and instead choose to save trinity
this in turn lead to an evolution of his ablilities beyond what any of his predeccessors were capable of and so being a threat to the system

2:the emergence of smith who has the negative to neo's positive code and who also threatens and almost destroys the matrix

3:the emergence of sati who at the end of revolutions is hinted that she has the only ability directly attributed the prophecy...a story which the maker of it(the oracle)never expected to actually come true

the problem i see in the future is this

if sati is indeed the person/programme who will herald the destruction of the matrix then is the oracles purpose now to look after her to prevent this from happening or is she there to help sati destroy the matrix(i find the second one unlikely as the oracle would be obselete if there was no matrix

another ironic thing that came from reloaded and revolutions is this

neo's decision to save trintiy actually saved the machines and humans rather than destroyed them as predicted by the architect

think about it

if neo had chosen the source then he would have been disseminated and smith would have been free to destroy everyone

cheers

Smith would have lost his special powers when Neo would have disseminated his code into the Source at the doors of the Architect.

When Neo disseminates his code to the Source it is deleted after a while. Smith has copied code from Neo, so all of the anomaly-code is removed from the Matrix as a chain-reaction.
It works the same as what you did see at the end of the super burly brawl. The other Smiths are deleted as a chain-reaction. These Smiths are not directly connected to the Source, but they share the same code.

It is like with twins from the same egg:
when something happens to one of them, the other one feels it too. Even if he is far away.

Smith himself is not directly connected to the Source when Neo would have chosen the other door. So he cannot be destroyed. Only his anomaly-powers are taken away from him. All the minds he copied will turn back to normal and the original exiled Smith will be left standing alone. The system could then easily delete him by sending the agents at him.

You beat me to it, M. Ave. A little more elaborate than what I was going to say, but I agree with you. Plus, I think that the agents lose their memories when the matrix is reloaded.

this is flawed reasoning and to me it seems that your clutching at straws.desperately trying to counter everything i post

smith would not be deleted if neo returned to the source because neo's code would still exist

the reason the code is disseminated is not to destroy it but to ensure that the next person whom it is inserted into does not continue with the predeccessors abilities

this is what buys the machines the time between the versions of the matrix

so neo's code would still exist but there would be no-one to insert it into exept another smith

as for smith being deleted if neo returned to the source

what is your reasoning behind this

if a file is copied in a computer them you erase the first file then the copy is not deleted as well so why would smith be deleted as a "chain reaction" if neo was disseminated?

there is no reason for that to happen

this is why it is reasonable to suggest that they cancelled each other out at the end of revolutions rather than one being deleted which caused the other to be deleted...if this is the case then as i said earlier,there is no need another person to succeed neo as the code will have been balanced

Anomoly - Think of Smith as a word program. After you are done with a school year (at least I'm still in school) I go back and delete everything within the program from the previous year, because it is irrelevant. Smith is a program, not a file (the way I see it).

he is a copied piece of code....just because the original code gets deleted doent mean the copy does

smith cant be disseminated if he isnt in the source like neo would be

i know what your trying to get at but in terms of computer workings it wouldnt happen

Quote:

he is a copied piece of code....just because the original code gets deleted doent mean the copy does

What do you mean by 'copy'? And what does Smith being in the source have to do with Smith's memory of the previous matrix have to do with it?
And why wouldn't my theory work in terms of computers?