»How does Smith get into Zion as Bane?«

Hi, after seeing the first 2 Matrix's a few times and Revolutions once, I am not quite sure of this question.

In Matrix 1, after Morpheus was captured and was being interrogated, Agent Smith talks about how much he hates being in this "zoo" or "prison" referring to the Matrix. He wants the access codes that Morpheus has so he can get to Zion. My question is: how exactly did Agent Smith acquire Bane's body? Was it shown in Neo's dream in Matrix 2 when he jumped down from the roof when the 2 guys were at the exit waiting for the phone call, and Smith turned the last one into himself and picked up the phone? If this is the case, why didn't Smith use Cypher as his ticket to Zion in Matrix 1?

Hi rooster.

In Matrix 1 Smith is singular: 1 program with no ability to copy himself. He is in essence a program created by the system.

In Matrix 2 Smith has the ability to clone himself using host programs: whether it be another program or a digital projection of someone who has jacked in to the Matrix.

Since Bane is jacked in to the Matrix, his digital projection is in essence Bane and he can only be unplugged once he's picked up the phone (an exit) and exited the Matrix back in to his body. If they unplug him in Zion, he dies in the Matrix.

Smith takes over Bane's projection. If they were to unplug Bane in Zion, I believe that particular Smith would more than likely cease to be since the host projection he took over would die, 'The mind can not live without the body'... Having said that, I believe the reverse would be possible too. Since Smith/Bane picked up the phone, his Mind reconnected to his Body and took Smith along for the ride; and so Smith is now in Zion within the mind of Bane.

Now stepping back to Matrix 1: Smith hasn't got the ability to clone, therefore wouldn't be able to connect to any Body jacked in even if he did pick up the phone. To be able to leap into the mind of Cypher he would first have had to have the ability to copy himself over Cyphers digital projection (Cyphers Mind) and then exit the Matrix into Cyphers Body.

Does this make sense at all? LOL It does to me and it's how I understand it to work. Of course I'm not an expert and I could be totally wrong but that's how I see things.

-Md

Yes, that makes sense. I just wanted to find out for sure if that is how Smith got into Zion (through Bane in the Matrix).

The Cypher part makes sense too. I never really thought about it much, but what you said in that Smith did not have the ability to copy therefore he could not get into Cypher's (or anybody hacked into the Matrix) mind. He would need a body in a ship to get out of the Matrix and he does not have access to that until he can copy to get somebody's mind. Ok, makes sense, so that is why he needed the access codes in Matrix 1. Thanks.

rooster wrote:

Yes, that makes sense. I just wanted to find out for sure if that is how Smith got into Zion (through Bane in the Matrix). The Cypher part makes sense too. I never really thought about it much, but what you said in that Smith did not have the ability to copy therefore he could not get into Cypher's (or anybody hacked into the Matrix) mind. He would need a body in a ship to get out of the Matrix and he does not have access to that until he can copy to get somebody's mind. Ok, makes sense, so that is why he needed the access codes in Matrix 1. Thanks.

No problems

I could be totally wrong though, the above is only how I saw it. Others may have totally different ideas and/or interpretations.

Hi there fellas.

As Marcdaniel said, Smith couldnt reach Zion in Matrix 1 because he wouldn't copy over people.

By the way, the Smith taking over Bana scene was not in Neo's dream. It actually happened. The reason Neo woke up after that is because he felt something.

To think how a program- Smith- can exist in the real world is a little mind boggling. This is how I think of it. First think of how the Matrix works in the first place. The human's mental self is uploaded from the body into a digital image in a digital world. So I believe the opposite can also be possible. A mental self (meaning Smith as a digital entity) can download into a human's body in the real world. Tell me if this makes any sense.

Akshat Gupta wrote:

Hi there fellas. As Marcdaniel said, Smith couldnt reach Zion in Matrix 1 because he wouldn't copy over people. By the way, the Smith taking over Bana scene was not in Neo's dream. It actually happened. The reason Neo woke up after that is because he felt something. To think how a program- Smith- can exist in the real world is a little mind boggling. This is how I think of it. First think of how the Matrix works in the first place. The human's mental self is uploaded from the body into a digital image in a digital world. So I believe the opposite can also be possible. A mental self (meaning Smith as a digital entity) can download into a human's body in the real world. Tell me if this makes any sense.

I know what you're saying but program in to the real world doesn't gell with me at all. Program into another programmed world does.

Also consider the power source (pods) - perhaps a little off track: If these batteries are the life blood of the machines, then the pods would be protected and those that awaken wouldn't be simply discharged, they'd be salvaged and replugged in again to harvest more power or as was stated, turned into liquid for others to ingest. And if the power plant is so guarded because it is the life essence of the machines, then why was is so damn easy for Morph to go and get Neo out of it? - Nah sorry, it was a simluation, that's the only answer for me... even if the brothers didn't write it for me. LOL

Are there programs in the real world today? Yes. But they are not running around everywhere. They need a host. Some programs are in your computer. Some are in your car. Some are in machines or robots. The sentinels have a programming in them, correct? But it needs a host- the sentinel body. Smith's program needed a host- Bane.

Akshat Gupta wrote:

Are there programs in the real world today? Yes. But they are not running around everywhere. They need a host. Some programs are in your computer. Some are in your car. Some are in machines or robots. The sentinels have a programming in them, correct? But it needs a host- the sentinel body. Smith's program needed a host- Bane.

Hi Akshat Gupta, how are you this morning?

Did Bane have a microchip in his brain?
Did Bane have a Pace Maker running WindowsXP3000?
Did Smith Enter the World and Pop up on their Screen Saver?

Nope. He went IN to Bane's brain. Therefore only 1 thing I can think of for this: Zion is a simulation.

That's only my view though.

You can think what you want but I disagree.

Akshat Gupta wrote:

You can think what you want but I disagree.

Hi Akshat Gupta.

I'm not asking you to agree, and I do think what I want based on what I analyse - my thoughts often change as do my opinions and beliefs based on new things revealed to me which Rev hasn't revealed anything new to me yet: I'll watch it again though just to make sure (and I have watched it more than once already).

I'm glad you disagree but I was hoping do debate (not argue (not saying you were either)) the reasonings - the whys.

But I'm definately off to bed now though. Will chat to you tomorrow.

Great....see ya later then.

Marcdaniel wrote:

Did Bane have a microchip in his brain?

?

how else do you think Bane (or any other human that's in a pod) can interface with The Matrix? pod-people aren't pure human anymore...as soon as they're ready, 01 implants them with whatever wetware is needed for The Matrix to work.

also...if humans can run around inside a program like The Matrix, why shouldn't a program from the Matrix, that's written to move, act, talk, think like a human, be able to run around inside a human? you've seen the movies, you've heard Maggie (on the Mjolnir) talking about Bane's cerebral scarring.

Thanks Grendy.

Grendelvs wrote:

Marcdaniel wrote: Did Bane have a microchip in his brain? ? how else do you think Bane (or any other human that's in a pod) can interface with The Matrix? pod-people aren't pure human anymore...as soon as they're ready, 01 implants them with whatever wetware is needed for The Matrix to work. also...if humans can run around inside a program like The Matrix, why shouldn't a program from the Matrix, that's written to move, act, talk, think like a human, be able to run around inside a human? you've seen the movies, you've heard Maggie (on the Mjolnir) talking about Bane's cerebral scarring.

Good morning Grendelvs,

After posting I knew I should have elaborated and was thinking someone would come back with the plug hole as the answer.

The Plug Hole is exactly that, a hole for a plug. It's not some magical computer or program. It allows a plug to connect to a computer so the computers signals can be interpretted by the brain (but that's done by a computer OUTside of the mind. The plug hole wasn't explained to me in any other way than that (not at least from what I've seen).

Already answered the second part of your question (well I presumed I had). I'll elaborate, they're human, living organisms not code therefor a program can't take over them unless Zion is a simulation.

Yeah, Bane's cerabral scarring, I found that to be a cheap way out of it but if Zion's a simulation then anything is possible and I could accept that comment from Maggie.

Anyways, thank you very much for the comments. I will definately chat later with you about it. Off to work I go.

The question of how Smith did take over Bane was bugging me too for a long time.

I think the head-plug is a convertor.

neural-activity --> digital code

digital code --> neural-activity

Just look at their residual self-image. They look the same as they look in the Real World. Even if they had never ever opened their eyes in order to see themselves.
So I think the DNA-structure is converted in order to project a correct digital self-image.

So when Bane's mind was taken over by Smith the conversion took place. New neural-structures were stored in his brain.
So it was something like this:

Smith's program code --> new neural-structures

When Smith takes over a mind in The Matrix he gains their abilities and knowledge. So he knows how Bane is supposed to act.

The only thing I question is this:
Does he cut himself because Smith hates the human body or is it still a little part of Bane himself fighting his neural 'sickness'?

Your ideas and mine are the same, Mobil Ave Neo, but I was having difficulty putting it in words.

Thanks for the compliment!
I like sharing thoughts with you.

How do you think that Neo can 'see' Smith in Bane?
That's the only hard part for me to understand.

Does Neo understand the conversion of neural --> digital and therefore recognises Smith's code?

I think he senses him through bio-electric 'radiation'. He senses Bane's energy-waves and understands them as Smith's code-structure.
Just like he sensed the Sentinels.

Good discussion guys. When I watched Revolutions in the theater, I couldn't believe how long it took Neo to figure out Bane was Smith. How many times does Smith show up calling Neo "Mr. Andersen"? And Bane was doing it. I couldn't believe that. Oh well, can't wait till April for Revolutions to come out on DVD. There will be lots of things I didn't catch from the one viewing at the theater.

Yes I have watched it three times and that isn't even good enough That is also what makes it fun.
You enjoy watching it every time; discovering new details.

Well it is kind of logical that it took so long before Neo realised it was Smith. Who would have ever thought this was possible?

Right, I cant wait for Revolutions on DVD either. I'll have to see the details better. I've only seen it once.

Revolutions is full of ridiculous things like Neo not knowing it was Smith. Also-

Sati: Are you from the Matrix?
Neo: Yes. No. I mean, I was.

And-

Seraph: We don't want trouble.
Trainman: Get the hell away from me!

Oh please....we knew Seraph was gonna kick his ass.

And-

Neo: I need to get back. I'll pay you whatever you want.

Like the Trainman is gonna accept money. I think the deal was that in Reloaded there was enough style to go with the substance. In Revolutions, there could have been more style.

Anyway....I had the same feeling about Neo seeing Bane, Mobil Ave Neo (cant think of a nickname for you. you can call me AG if you want. thats what they all call me here).

Hmm yes...you can call me M.ave or something
It is indeed hard to shorten my name

I just use this nickname because I like his clothing when he is in Mobil Ave and also the idea that he is kind of symbolized as a lost angel there.

What does your name mean?

I dont know. Heheh.

Hi again everyone.

Mobil_Ave_Neo:

Good points. I still find it hard that Binary vs Neuro can work. I guess if we accept REV (and I dont) then we must say to ourselves that it will and does. - That I just one of the things I find hard to swallow.

Smith cutting himself... Perhaps he is testing if he really is human or if he is a program? Or prehaps he's doing exactly what you said.

If Zion's a Matrix (Yeah yeah bah bah bah LOL) Then prehaps he's testing to see if he can regenerate his wounds and prove to himself that this too is a matrix?

---

rooster:

You're not the only one. I thought to myself for the love of god, aren't you the one? Who is the only one who talks like that and calls you Mr Anderson?

Another personal hate of mine with REV was that scene for that reason.

---

Mobil_Ave_Neo:

Absolutely: Everytime I watch any of them I analyse it a bit more and usually discover more details.

It's not the fact that he would have thought it was possible or not, he should clicked to it straight away and said, 'no way' or 'oh my f*'n god!" Then Bane could have said, 'Bane will suffice' or something Smithlike.

JMHO though.

---

Akshat Gupta:

I'm going to buy it too. My Matrix set won't be complete otherwise - especially since I know they're not going to re-write it to please me, so I may as well own the damn thing. LOL

That's very true: Sati Neo Yes No I was thing. I agree.

As for Seraph and Trainman - I thought the Trainman was God in his own domain?

LOL True about the pay you whatever you want statement too.

Marcdaniel wrote:

Good points. I still find it hard that Binary vs Neuro can work. I guess if we accept REV (and I dont) then we must say to ourselves that it will and does. - That I just one of the things I find hard to swallow.

It's the near future. More things are possible.
The plug being a convertor sounds very logically.
Everything they experience from the Matrix is stored as neural-structures; else, Neo wouldn't be able to walk when he got released from his energy-pod. He wouldn't have learned how to do it yet.

Quote:

If Zion's a Matrix (Yeah yeah bah bah bah LOL) Then prehaps he's testing to see if he can regenerate his wounds and prove to himself that this too is a matrix?

Would be useless. Agents cannot recover their wounds. They have to take over another mind in order to appear clean again.

Forget it. Zion is not another Matrix. If that would be true I would be shocked and hate the WB-brothers for the rest of my life.

Quote:

You're not the only one. I thought to myself for the love of god, aren't you the one? Who is the only one who talks like that and calls you Mr Anderson?

Well yes...it sounds stupid but give the guy a break.
He is on a trip to save the world not knowing if he will ever return. He also sees his love Trinity being threatened by death. Would you think in logic and reason at that moment?

Quote:

That's very true: Sati Neo Yes No I was thing. I agree.

Why? He's not lying isn't he. He is still from the Matrix where he has a role to play as the One. So his first reaction is: yes. What's the big deal

Quote:

As for Seraph and Trainman - I thought the Trainman was God in his own domain?

Yes only in Mobil Ave station. Seraph speaks to him in a crowded subway-train which still cruises around in the Matrix. There the Trainguy is weak.

M3 rules bigtime...indeed different from M1 and M2, but a masterpiece at it's own.
The WB-brothers cut M2/M3 just at the exact right point.

Marcdaniel wrote:

I still find it hard that Binary vs Neuro can work. I guess if we accept REV (and I dont) then we must say to ourselves that it will and does. - That I just one of the things I find hard to swallow.

but not the whole AI enslaving the human race thing and building a f'n huge program to keep us captives inside our own minds, then?