»Who did the Architect actually agree to free?«

Hope this hasn't been talked about already. Is it possible that the W.Bros. wanted us to think that the architect agreed to free humans but what he and the Oracle agreed on was the freeing of rogue programs.

Oracle What about the others?

Architect What others?

Oracle The ones that want out

Architect Obviously, they will be freed.

Oracle I have your word?

Architect What do you think I am human?


The "ones" sounds to be a red herring of sorts - very ambiguous.

What do you think?

He is referring to both man and machine.

Man was freed of the matrix and machine was freed of the slavery of purpose.

Starbuck

Ya but not all mankind. Only the ones that wanted out.

I would imagine that those who were informed of the true nature of the Matrix, and the current state of machine-human relations, would want out even if their mind had trouble 'letting go'. Just a side comment.

I thought the same than D1 when I first saw the movie. The Architecte is not only talking about humans but about exiles too.

Maybe that, in fine, the only purpose of the Oracle was to free exiles but she needed humans to help her in the process since they are machine's source of power and thus, a good way to have a lobby mean.

You know? Everyone assumes that the Oracle is talking about both humans and programs, but there really is no indication that she's talking about programs at all. I think it's anthropomorphicizing (wow, big word!) the Machines to say that they feel enslaved. There's no talk of the Machines feeling oppression, except from Smith who's a maniac.

Also, the Oracle doesn't say "the ones who want to be freed." She says "the ones who want out"

That would be a terrible mixed metaphor to refer to programs. What are they going to get out of? If she was referring to programs, she should have said "the ones who want in". Don't you think?

Good point. As often, the Bro. wrote their text so that you can see whatever you want in it That's a projection as they say in psychology.

Finally, Matrix is written like religions : most of texts can be interpreted as we want

Could not she says that programms would want to get out of the Matrix to go to 01 ? She would say "go out" since she's in the matrix, she's talking from her own point of view. And you would not say for a human that he wants to get in the real world if he's prisoner, you would more likely say he want to get out of the matrix.

The Oracle refers to "the others", so she probably talks about programms like in "other programms like me". But of course I am not sure about it, it is really hard to tell what she really meant.

I'd like to emphasize the use of the word "out" in the line "the ones who want out".

Now, for a program, there are three states of being: 1) being in good standing; 2) being deleted; or 3) being an exile.

I would think that all programs want to be in good standing. So if a program "wants out" what does that mean? They want to be deleted? They want to be exiled? No, they all "want in". They all want to be in good standing. Note, programs are not sent to the Matrix as a punishment. So it would not be intelligible for a program to "want out" of the Matrix.

Perhaps, she means programs that are slated for deletion are now free to get out of 01 and into the Matrix, like Sati. That almost makes sense because "others" would then refer to "others like Sati". However, the phrase "those who want out" is still a very bad description. It would be "those getting thrown out" not "those who want out". Take Sati as an example, while she was waiting at the train station, would you describe her as "wanting out" or "wanting in" or, at least, "not wanting out"? I dunno, Now I'm more convinced that I'm right!

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the Machines to say that they feel enslaved. There's no talk of the Machines feeling oppression, except from Smith who's a maniac.

That is one of the biggest examples of Machine oppression. He wants to be free of the matrix and is willing to go to any lengh to get there. Sati is another program that was "forced to hide" in the matrix to escape forced deletion because she has no purpose. Her parents are rebels and want an out from their forced environment of purpose. They want to be free of that controlled and forced purpose to find thier own meaning in life and their own purpose.

Oracle wrote:

The Oracle: They have their reasons, but usually a program chooses exile when it faces deletion. Neo: And why would a program be deleted? The Oracle: Maybe it breaks down. Maybe a better program is created to replace it - happens all the time, and when it does, a program can either choose to hide here, [in the matrix] or return to The Source. Neo: The machine mainframe?

Sounds pretty final to me. Exile programs dont have much choice when faced with deletion other than to hide in the matrix.

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Also, the Oracle doesn't say "the ones who want to be freed." She says "the ones who want out" That would be a terrible mixed metaphor to refer to programs. What are they going to get out of? If she was referring to programs, she should have said "the ones who want in". Don't you think?

No - just the opposite. they want out of the matrix and they want to be out from under the control of the sources purpose.

Starbuck

Leaving it as "The ones who want out" is another example of the Wachowskis fine script writing skills. The ending is a lot like Soylent Green in sense (I wont spoil the ending for those who havnt seen it) that the problem is not solved & people continue living the same as always. What I mean is that there'd probably be the odd person plugged into the Matrix who'd rather just stay ignorant & happy & if that is the case it should prove to escalate a few more Animatrix Episodes based around the "New" Matrix.

If you havn't seen Soylent Green, do, one of the Greatest Sci-Fi's ever!

bachsoffice wrote:

I would think that all programs want to be in good standing. So if a program "wants out" what does that mean? They want to be deleted? They want to be exiled? No, they all "want in".

I definitly have the evidence that not. Read that Smtih's sentence :

"I must get out of here, I must get free. In this mind is the key. My key."

See ? Smith is in the matrix and talks about getting out, not in.

In fact, getting "out" of the matrix or "in" 01 is just like asking if an half full glass, is rather half empty or rather half full? See what I mean ? It's the same but from 2 different points of view.

So, since the Oracle is talking, we must consider by default that it is her point of view, meaning "get out of the matrix".

bachsoffice wrote:

Note, programs are not sent to the Matrix as a punishment.

It is a repressive function saying "have a purpose, have a job here or else we delete you" so yes, it is a punishment. From the machines point of view, it is the law and those who don't respect it must leave. It is obvious that AI's don't like to be in the matrix since they go there only when they are forced to. See the Smith's monologue above.

bachsoffice wrote:

Perhaps, she means programs that are slated for deletion are now free to get out of 01 and into the Matrix, like Sati. That almost makes sense because "others" would then refer to "others like Sati".

Saying that the Oracle was referring to Sati is maintaining what I said : she talks about programs, not humans and thus you just added another argument for my hypothesis

But what you said above about programs beeing not free to come in the matrix (before Neo set them free), can't be true. The Oracle says in reloaded :

Neo: Programs hacking programs. Why?
The Oracle: They have their reasons, but usually a program chooses exile when it faces deletion.
Neo: And why would a program be deleted?
The Oracle: Maybe it breaks down. Maybe a better program is created to replace it - happens all the time, and when it does,
a program can either choose to hide here, or return to The Source.

So you see, programs have the choice to go hidding in the Matrix.

However, the Oracle could still be referring to Sati as "the other who are prisonners here" but not for the reasons you mentioned, I am sure about that. And anyway, it still confirms that she talks about programs (and humans too I guess).

bachsoffice wrote:

out"? I dunno, Now I'm more convinced that I'm right!

Well unfortunetly, it does not match pretty well with the trilogy dialogues. But who knows ?

You CANNOT use Smith as an example of Machine oppression. Smith wants "out" because of his immense hatred of humans. He also wants to destroy the Matrix. And by the end, he wants to destroy everything. Saying that the Machines are oppressing Smith is like saying that the U.S. Government oppresses the Ku Klux Klan or Charlie Manson.

So that leaves us with Sati. If Sati is one of the "others" that want "out" of the Matrix, then why is she still "in" the Matrix at the end? She doesn't want to be out of the matrix, she's very happy making her sunrises for Neo and making love with cookies or whatever.

You say she wants "out" of having a forced purpose. She never had a purpose to begin with, so how could she get "out" of that?

Programs face either deletion or exile. You can't say they "want out of deletion", that just doesn't make any sense. And exile implies being forced out to begin with. When you are forced into exile, you must leave. You can't "want out of exile", you're already out!

Also, Neo makes a deal for "peace" with Deus ex Machina, not "free your own oppressed programs". And there's no war going on between the machines and themselves.

Finally, the Machines fought and imprisoned the humans because the they felt enslaved by the humans. Are we to infer that once they fought off our enslavement, they imediately set up a system to enslave themselves? No, they set up a hive-like society with a collective intelligence/consciousness which is Deus ex Machina.

Besides, who is the Architect that he can free programs? He's not the king of the programs. Deus ex Machina is the machine god. So why are "the others who want out" going to be freed on the word of the Architect? Because the "the others" are humans in the Matrix, and the Architect has control over the Matrix.

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You CANNOT use Smith as an example of Machine oppression. Smith wants "out" because of his immense hatred of humans.

yes - ok, so why doesnt he just leave? Its because of machine oppression! The machines impose a forced purpose on every machine so Smith is NOT free to get OUT of the matrix or he will be faced with deletion. He has no freedom! He is oppressed.

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So that leaves us with Sati. If Sati is one of the "others" that want "out" of the Matrix, then why is she still "in" the Matrix at the end? She doesn't want to be out of the matrix, she's very happy making her sunrises for Neo and making love with cookies or whatever. You say she wants "out" of having a forced purpose. She never had a purpose to begin with, so how could she get "out" of that?

She is a child (or lets say immature or underdeveloped machine entity) She relies on her elders to do what is best for her. She does not understand purpose as her parents do, who by the way are oppressed by machine purpose and forced to hide their daughter in the Matrix lest she be faced with deletion. At the end the environment of the Matrix has changed and she is there becuase the Oracle is watching after her but she now has the freedom to CHOOSE HER OWN PURPOSE! She never had this before. The fact that she has chosen a purpose in the sun rise is very significant! she is no longer under machine oppression and free to choose her own will as well as come and go into or out of the matrix as she pleases.

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Programs face either deletion or exile. You can't say they "want out of deletion", that just doesn't make any sense. And exile implies being forced out to begin with. When you are forced into exile, you must leave. You can't "want out of exile", you're already out!

Now you are just being daft! they want out of the oppression of purpose or deletion. The machines want to be released of the finality of no choice. If you are an exile you want to be freed of that forced exile. My god, havent you ever heard of someone coming out of exile! they want to be allowed back into machine society. Do do this they must be allowed to come out of exile.

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Also, Neo makes a deal for "peace" with Deus ex Machina, not "free your own oppressed programs". And there's no war going on between the machines and themselves.

You have missed all the subplots in the movies. If you wont take my word for the fact that a machine revolution was in the works how do you explain the Oracle and the Architect working agianst each other. The Oracle works for freedom while the architect works for control. It trancends any machine or human existence.

the Oracle states it here.

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The Oracle: We're all here to do what we're all here to do. I'm interested in one thing, Neo, the future. And believe me, I know - the only way to get there is together.

The merovingian (one of the most prominent exiles) explains machine slavery here.

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Morpheus: Everything begins with choice. Merovingian: No. Wrong. Choice is an illusion, created between those with power, and those without. Look there, at that woman. My God, just look at her. Affecting everyone around her, so obvious, so bourgeois, so boring. But wait... Watch - you see, I have sent her dessert, a very special dessert. I wrote it myself. It starts so simply, each line of the program creating a new effect, just like poetry. First, a rush... heat... her heart flutters. You can see it, Neo, yes? She does not understand why - is it the wine? No. What is it then, what is the reason? And soon it does not matter, soon the why and the reason are gone, and all that matters is the feeling itself. This is the nature of the universe. We struggle against it, we fight to deny it, but it is of course pretense, it is a lie. Beneath our poised appearance, the truth is we are completely out of control. Causality. There is no escape from it, we are forever slaves to it. Our only hope, our only peace is to understand it, to understand the `why.

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Finally, the Machines fought and imprisoned the humans because the they felt enslaved by the humans. Are we to infer that once they fought off our enslavement, they imediately set up a system to enslave themselves? No, they set up a hive-like society with a collective intelligence/consciousness which is Deus ex Machina

Hmm... hivelike - sounds pretty oppressive to me. If if is a collective why doenst the Architect know what the Oracle is doing or why cant they track down the Merovingian. It is a society that has always been enslaved because true emotion does not exist. The lack of emotion voids the machines of desires and wants and love and hates. But they are begining to develop such emotions. Smith with hate and revultion. The Oracle with compassion. Sati with Love. With these emotions comes the desire for free will and freedom from the oppression of imposed purpose.

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Besides, who is the Architect that he can free programs? He's not the king of the programs. Deus ex Machina is the machine god. So why are "the others who want out" going to be freed on the word of the Architect? Because the "the others" are humans in the Matrix, and the Architect has control over the Matrix.

What is your point here? You answered your own question.

Starbuck

First, I must say that I agree with all what Starbuck said. This done, let's answer the rest.

bachsoffice wrote:

You CANNOT use Smith as an example of Machine oppression. Smith wants "out" because of his immense hatred of humans.

First, I said "repression" about exiles and Smith-agent was not an exile at that moment. Smith was there as a prison warder and he hated his job.

Hating humans is part of his programming so he does the job well. That's how the Matrix works, every program feels that he's acting freely but in fact it was created with such desires/programming that he will do what he was meant to do. "Choice is an illusion", remember.
If Smith says that he'll get out once Zion is destroyed, then it means that the higher authorities promised him that.

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He also wants to destroy the Matrix. And by the end, he wants to destroy everything. Saying that the Machines are oppressing Smith is like saying that the U.S. Government oppresses the Ku Klux Klan or Charlie Manson.

Again, we were talking about exiles, not Smith


You are mixing up Smith-agent and Smith-anomaly. They are definitly not the same program and their purpose is very different. Smith was working for the system, and it was not oppressing him.
Saying this is like saying that a prison warder is oppressed by the government by promising him a promotion if he does his job well. The fact that the prison warder don't like the prisoners is only his own problem, see what I mean ?
Smith-anomaly wanted to destroy everything because he was part of the anomaly and it has nothing to do with the Smith of Matrix 1.

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So that leaves us with Sati.

that's a little bit short.

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If Sati is one of the "others" that want "out" of the Matrix, then why is she still "in" the Matrix at the end?

Because :

Architect: What others?
Oracle: The ones that want out.

We are only speaking about those who wants to get out, wich is obviously not the case of all the programs. Sati seems to have some business with the Oracle and it seems that she wants to stay, but she can leave if she wants.
Even if she wants to get out, it is clear that the "others" have not been freed yet since the Architecte talks in the futur form :

Architect: Obviously, they will be freed.

So they're not freed yet, hence Sati being still there .

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She doesn't want to be out of the matrix, she's very happy making her sunrises for Neo and making love with cookies or whatever.

First you ask why she's still there and then you just answer to that question. You are just proving me right

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You say she wants "out" of having a forced purpose. She never had a purpose to begin with, so how could she get "out" of that?

Even if she wanted to go out (but I don't think so), it is the agreement with the Architecte : all the programs being held against their will in the matrix (meaning all these who don't have a purpose) will be free to return to 01 despite their lack of purpose.

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Programs face either deletion or exile. You can't say they "want out of deletion", that just doesn't make any sense. And exile implies being forced out to begin with. When you are forced into exile, you must leave. You can't "want out of exile", you're already out!

I don't see what you mean by this ? It is clearly stated that programs have 2 choices : leave or die. What's wrong with that ?

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Also, Neo makes a deal for "peace" with Deus ex Machina, not "free your own oppressed programs". And there's no war going on between the machines and themselves.

We don't know anything about this, but we do see that there is a conflict between exiles and agents (the Twin is shooting at the agents on the car of Trinity). The Oracle works against the system and so does the Merovingian since he holds Neo prisoner, knowing very well that 01 wants it.
We see a lot of conflicts here.
Maybe that the Oracle had an agreement : I'll send Neo to the source if you free programs, but know that Neo will ask the same for humans".

Why would a program help us ? I do think that The Oracle has his own agenda here and his interests are mixed with the humane's ones.

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Finally, the Machines fought and imprisoned the humans because the they felt enslaved by the humans. Are we to infer that once they fought off our enslavement, they imediately set up a system to enslave themselves? No, they set up a hive-like society with a collective intelligence/consciousness which is Deus ex Machina.

Let's put it another way : machines didn't want to work, they wanted to be free. When machines won the war, they found themself working again as before, so what is the difference ? Why would there not be other revolutions amongst machines just like humans do.
Those machines have free will and thus can have conflicts between them. You see machines as a single intelligent race while Second Renaissance shows us that hey have their own personality.

Whatever you do, there must be some robots wich command and others that obey. And thus, the possibility of conflicts.

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Besides, who is the Architect that he can free programs? He's not the king of the programs. Deus ex Machina is the machine god. So why are "the others who want out" going to be freed on the word of the Architect?

He's just doing what he's told to do. The Oracle apparently cannot access to the source. The Architecte is the reprensentative of Deus ex. When the King decide something, does he go himself in every house to spread his last decision ? I don't think so.

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Because the "the others" are humans in the Matrix, and the Architect has control over the Matrix.

Of course, he's responsible of the matrix, but once again, if the King decide that all prisoners should be freed, he won't go himself opening every door of every cell. He'll just give the order to the prison's director. The Architecte himself won't free every human/program, he'll give orders to the programs responsible of freeing people.

Apocryphe wrote:

Smith-anomaly wanted to destroy everything because he was part of the anomaly and it has nothing to do with the Smith of Matrix 1.

That is completely untrue.

Smith in M2 and Smith in M1 are very much the same consciousness, only in M2 he is heavily modified. It is the events of M1 that compell Smith to wreak his havoc. The hatred for Neo, humanity and the matrix in m2 and m3 are all direct results of his anomolous nature which we are introduced to in m1.

Finally, this whole "Machines wanting out thing". Ok, guys, its true, they do. The Architect (and the 'status quo' machines') govern their existence by mathematical equilibrium, relying on a strict purpose as requisite for existence.

When the Oracle says, 'The ones that want out', she is referring to:

- The humans that are trapped by the Matrix, the revolutions cycle and the machines

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- The machines and programs who have developed actual emotions and now want to be released from the machine nature of 'serve a distinct purpose or die'.

Ask yourself, as a human being 'What is your purpose?" You can't actually answer that question. But it doesn't matter, because even though you're not aware of it right now, you still have a right to exist. That is what the exiles are seeking. Permission to live without a distinct role, just as humans do.

How does this apply to Sati? She's restricted to exist in a virtual world where she faces constant threat from all sorts of enemies, particularly agents sent to delete her. She wants (or, would eventually want, had the peace not begun) to have the right to live how she pleases without having to subscibe to the strict machine law.

Okay, let me clarify myself here. . .

I understand that the Machines might want to bring about a change or revolution of their current system. I understand that hive behavior to an individual is very oppressive.

What I am arguing is that the Machine revolution is in no way stated or implied in the movie, ever. If anything, we are only seeing the beginnings of some programs desiring to have more freedom and indivduality, including (and exclusively) Smith and Rama's Family. I won't include Merv because his complaint is about the oppressiveness of determinism (which one cannot be freed from anyway, i.e. you will never be free from the bonds of cause-and-effect). Even the Keymaker, an exile, is still resigned to his purpose "We do what we do". Anyway, there is no war going between Machines and themselves stated or implied.

My argument is that in order to extend the Oracles statement about "the others who want out" to programs, you must draw upon an implicit struggle between Machines and themselves. But the struggle is never stated and it is barely implied, if it is implied at all. When the Oracle talks about "programs hacking programs", she is very "matter of fact" about it. She isn't judgemental that this is wrong, that this has to change, she just says it like that's just the way things are.

It's very nice to think that the machines won themselves freedom, but it is not stated implicitly or explicitly in the film.

One moment that jumps to mind as I read your post AzarN is in M2 where, the agents have a choice to go after Trinity who is on the bike or after the Keymaker who Morpheus has just thrown atop the transport truck. They go after the Keymaker.

Agent Johnson: She means nothing.
Agent Thompson: Find the exile.
Agent Johnson : We have them.

Its interesting that Trinity means nothing to the agents.

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What I am arguing is that the Machine revolution is in no way stated or implied in the movie, ever. .

Not stated but heavily implied. The Oracle is leading that revolution. Do you think she is actually trying to free the humans just for the sake of freeing humans - that makes no sense. She is freeing humans because of the renaissance that is occuring in machine society. Her statement below shows this.

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The Oracle: We're all here to do what we're all here to do. I'm interested in one thing, Neo, the future. And believe me, I know - the only way to get there is together.

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If anything, we are only seeing the beginnings of some programs desiring to have more freedom and indivduality, including (and exclusively) Smith and Rama's Family

Exclusively huh - What about the Oracle, what about Seraph, What about Persephone? All are showing emotions such as compassion, love, loyalty, jelousy, bitterness, regret.

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I won't include Merv because his complaint is about the oppressiveness of determinism (which one cannot be freed from anyway, i.e. you will never be free from the bonds of cause-and-effect). Even the Keymaker, an exile, is still resigned to his purpose "We do what we do". Anyway, there is no war going between Machines and themselves stated or implied.

The merovingian shows lust and resentment. Machine society is governed through deterministic bonds. What greater struggle is there than the struggle for true free will. Machines struggle to free themselves from the bonds of purpose imposed on them by the source. We as humans struggle with this every day - are we free willed creatures or are we living in an illusion and bound by destiny. Cant you see the parallel? It is one of the major philosophical themes running through the movies. Cause and effect is the vehicle that drives destiny or in the machines case determinism!

The keymaker is an exile because even though he has a purpose (to guide Neo to the door of light) his purpose lies outside the bounds of the matrix and with the external system of control set up by the Oracle to guide the one back to the source. The agents are there to keep the Matrix stable and it is apparent that exile machines have a higher priority for capture than the humans running around in the matrix. There is a higher price on their heads so to speak. Trinity means nothing because she has no ability to plant seeds of dissention among other machines. one of the agents purpose in the matrix is to styfle that cry for freedom among machines therefore exile programs have a higher priority.

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My argument is that in order to extend the Oracles statement about "the others who want out" to programs, you must draw upon an implicit struggle between Machines and themselves. But the struggle is never stated and it is barely implied, if it is implied at all. When the Oracle talks about "programs hacking programs", she is very "matter of fact" about it. She isn't judgemental that this is wrong, that this has to change, she just says it like that's just the way things are. It's very nice to think that the machines won themselves freedom, but it is not stated implicitly or explicitly in the film.

well, which is it - is it barely stated or not stated at all. As a 5 year old plot themes are fed to us because we do not understand the subtley of implied meaning. As adults we look for more complex meanings in the movies and shows that we watch. That is what makes them good! Just because some machine in the movie didnt come out and yell REVOLUTION upon which he impales himself on a sword held by the Architect does not mean that the sub plot is not in the movie! Look beyond the thin fabric of kung fu fights and chase scenes to the true meanings and philosophical nature in these films. the machines are struggling with the very things that we struggle with every day. We are just seeing it from the humans point of view.


Starbuck

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we are just seeing it from the humans point of view

We’ve watch these movies and bring to them our prejudices, point of view, and arrogance - content in the knowledge that the story is revealing something about human myths, beliefs and history.

But what if they’re not? What if the movies are showing a historical slice of world history to another sort of entity. Telling programs how they fought for their freedom along with humans.

It wasn’t until M3 came out that I even started to question the importance of programs and how were they different from machines (no one disagrees anymore that outdated programs are a “nationality” different from machines that seek a chance to survive). Why is it so difficult then to take the next step and accept that the point of view of the movie could be from something other than a human viewpoint?

the way i see it there are only two viwpoints in the Matrix. Human and Machine. If it's not told from human viewpoint, then it must be from the machines, right? So why would they portray themselves as the bad guys, and let them be reresented by Smith? Though you do see "good" programs like the Oracle and Sati.

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well, which is it - is it barely stated or not stated at all

Like I said, there are the beginnings of a struggle emerging. The examples I used of Smith and The Ramas are the ONLY examples of machines expressing dissatisfaction with the system. Seraph and the others may show emotion, but none show a dissatisfaction with the system. And Merv, with his rebeliousness over causality, still doesn't show any resentment to the system. In fact, he benefits from the opression because exiles have to turn to him, giving him a great amount of power. I believe that he's happy with the way things are, he just happens to be an existentialist.

So anyway, barely implied is roughly equivalent to not implied because there is not enough out there to draw the conclusion that a Machine Revolution has started, much less that it has been won.

I'd also like to draw on d1's assertion that we are looking at things from a human point of view. Humans crave freedom and control, but who's to say that these things are what machines desire? Perhaps Machines desire efficiency and unity. Why force our values on them?

I'd like to finish on Popper's Falsification Principle. I have stated that the exile programs were not freed upon the Architect's word from that final conversation in Revolutions. If I am right, there will be exiles when Matrix Online comes out (when is it? March?). If exile programs don't exist, then I am wrong? Right?

Neat! A theory you defend while keeping in mind that you could be wrong. How honourable.

Not all programs would want to to freed from the Matrix. Some, have carved out very successful existences for themselves. So, I don't think that the exiles would necessarily all be gone.

One thing though; would it be at all possible for programs to move into the outside world ie:Zion. Perhaps they would have to imprint their structures onto humans before being able to do that.

What do you think?

d1, I always acknowledge that I might be wrong. That's why I often present arguments against my theories (and they're all just theories). The only ones who can be 100% sure that they're correct (on Matrix issues) are the Wachowski bros. and even they risk contradicting themselves.

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Not all programs would want to to freed from the Matrix. Some, have carved out very successful existences for themselves. So, I don't think that the exiles would necessarily all be gone.

Speaking of being wrong. . .Yes, you're right. Even if programs without purpose were freed, there must still be law. So outlaw or out-of-control programs would still be exiles. d'oh!

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One thing though; would it be at all possible for programs to move into the outside world ie:Zion. Perhaps they would have to imprint their structures onto humans before being able to do that.

I'm pretty sure that programs do exist in the outside world inside machines like the sentinels or drones or whatever else. However, i still don't quite understand the mechanism that Smith uses to write himself onto Bane. I'd say the machines probably don't know how to do this or else they would have tried to infiltrate Zion that way. But I could see the possibility of sentient machines mingling with the Zionites, although, I'm not sure if the Machines would trust the humans that much.

Bachsoffice,

you say that it is not implied but revolutions is a plural. There are several revolutions there

Don't think about the sun completing a revolution because in the movie it is the ending of the cycle, there is only one cycke in that movie. So it is clearly stated in the title that there are several revolutions

d1 wrote:

Not all programs would want to to freed from the Matrix. Some, have carved out very successful existences for themselves. So, I don't think that the exiles would necessarily all be gone.

Being "Let out" doesn't mean they would be expelled from the Matrix. It means they are no longer exiled there. Now they can occupy both the matrix and the machine network and come and go as they please. They are free.

Its just like a house cat. Sometimes they want to go outside. Sometimes they'de rather stay inside. Up until now, the exiles have been restricted to being indoors. SOME cats don't mind being indoors all the time (Like the Merovingian).