»Hidden Jewish connection in Second Renaissance ?«

Have u guys noticed the Jewish connection in Second Renaissance ?

In the beginning machines are showed as slaves ("Though loyal and pure, the machines earned no respect from their masters"). The hebrews were initially slaves working for the pharoah.

" machines sought refuge in their own promised land."

The machines built their city zero-one in Palestine (persian gulf is shown and it zooms in on Palestine). "Promised Land", a clear reference to Israel. (ie) Zero-one = Israel

"Zero One prospered, and for a time, it was good. The machines' artificial intelligence could be seen in every facet of society, including the creation of new and better AI."

Some say that Israel is a technologically sophisticated nation.

"Zero One's ambassadors pleaded to be heard. At the United Nations they presented plans for a stable, civil relationship with the nations of man. Zero One's admission to the United Nations was denied."

If u remember the history, most of the nations in the world refused (and some still refuse) to recognize Israel as a nation.

"So the leaders of men conceived of their most desperate strategy yet. A final solution - the destruction of the sky"

"Final Solution" is the same word which refers to Hitler's Jewish genocide.


In short,

Machines = Jews

Zero-one = Israel


So, what r the bros trying to convey in Second Renaissance ?

Its not a specific reference to the Jewish people. The Second Renaissance is simply mirroring the injustices inflicted upon countless societies and peoples throughout history. It isn't just rhe Jews who've had a rough time (although its probably the roughest).

TSR is a metaphor and reference to the dangers and pointlessness of intolerance.

AzarN,

I fully agree. But what I wanted to know is whether the brothers are Pro-Zionist or Anti-Zionist. Whether they support Israel's ambition of "securing" the holy land or they bash Israel's attitude towards Palestine.

I think its completely irrellevant and I doubt anyone on these forums would know. Thats like asking what their favourite colour is (alright, green most likely but thats not the point either).

Fact is, I doubt their opinions regarding this matter would influence the films in any way.

Actually, I think their favorite color is gold, and here's why. . .ahh, never mind

As for the Wachowski stance on Israel-Palestine, I think the themes of their movie suggest that they would prefer the two to live together in peace, but that ain't gonna happen. It's a cop out answer, but I think that opening up a debate over whether the Wachowskis are pro-israeli or pro-palestinian will open up a can of worms that we probably don't want to start with. . .and AzarN is right, we couldn't possibly know.

However, I do think that the references to Israel have some kind of religious (but not political) message in them. Good work, Sci!

bachsoffice wrote:

As for the Wachowski stance on Israel-Palestine, I think the themes of their movie suggest that they would prefer the two to live together in peace,

hmm....thats a very good answer... I never looked at it that way. I thought the bros were secretly supporting Zionists but I was wrong. The bros want them to come together ! Thanks !

Narrator: This is the very essence of the second renaissance. Bless all forms of intelligence.

I don't think they were directly referencing it as much as they like to use Biblical references, and the Hebrews under the Pharoah were the archetypal "unjustly-persecuted slave race".

Azarn wrote -

Quote:

Its not a specific reference to the Jewish people. The Second Renaissance is simply mirroring the injustices inflicted upon countless societies and peoples throughout history. It isn't just rhe Jews who've had a rough time (although its probably the roughest).

Yeah - It seems to me that they haven't learned a thing...

scientheist wrote:

The machines built their city zero-one in Palestine (persian gulf is shown and it zooms in on Palestine). "Promised Land", a clear reference to Israel. (ie) Zero-one = Israel

I think it's closer to Iraq.

Two reasons mainly, one based on the film, the other speculative;

1) They built it close to the cradle of human civilisation - Babylon
2) Being mechanical, they would benefit from a good supply of oil.

Another Smith wrote:

Yeah - It seems to me that they haven't learned a thing...

Exactly, after WWII, it was all "This kind of atrocity must never happen again" and here we are 60 Years later Helicopter gunships vs donkey mounted catapults while they slowly wall in their neighbours in the name of security.

Sheesh!

This parralelling thing is important. I was confused when I first watched The Second Renaissance and saw that man was pretty much shown as the bad guy. Now I come to say that it is pretty similar to the problem in post first world war Germany. Germany was not adequately forgiven after the first world war and was basically estoryed and humiliated by the 'treaty of Versailles' (signed by all the allies and the Germans were not allowed to be involved).

The thing about the end of the matrix revolutions is that the bad guys (the machines) are not just a simple bad guy anymore. We recognise that there are problems on both sides and the novel ending (for blockbuster films at least) involved a compromise between the two sides. A peace.


Zero One and Zion both sounds very similar and this is because they are both different promised lands for different groups. Both seem to conflict though. For the ultimate success of Zero One, all humans must provide power for them, wheras for the ultimate success of Zion any machine must be one which is used to help them and not allowed to live for itself (because that would be a potential threat). Maybe it isn't so different from the palestine and israeli struggle after all? However, even if the machines are the israeli government, the movie doesn't involve the destruction of Zero One so you needn't worry about worrying incitements to violence

AzarN wrote:

It isn't just rhe Jews who've had a rough time (although its probably the roughest).

The Jews have had the toughest -- not the gays?

Watch out if you're a gay jew. Tough times galore!

I am gay. I have some friends that are Gay Jews. They are rejected by their own people as well as other hateful persons. So much for suffering making one sympathetic to the sufferings of others. ha!

That verse in Leviticus is a killer. So much for God as a loving father figure.... *shrugs*. I know where that verse is off by heart simply because I was so shocked to find it. Lev 18:22.

I have never been able to keep an even remotely literal interpretation of the Bible since finding that verse. Beforehand I might have reluctantly dismissed the Adam and Eve story. Now that I see such intolerance being labelled as 'God's law', the whole idea of the Bible as "divinely inspired" has gone straight out the window. I am much more inclined to attribute such verses to the fallibility of Moses (he wrote that bit right?).

I have come to realise over time that religion isn't about ethics. And more recently I have recognised that it isn't about supernatural beings (whether they created the world or not) or even about eternal life! While such things may be mentioned in the Bible, I am no longer convinced that they are relevant or necessary for religion.

If you read anything by Otto you will see his idea that there is a rational side to religion and an irrational side which he describes as the "numinous". The numinous is the feeling of joy and rapture one feels in gaining some kind of otherworldly (for lack of a better word) feeling. It is my opinion that this irrational side is the only relevant part of religion; the motivating factor which occurs here and now. The rational part only causes problems because it tries to establish eternal values and, where it makes mistakes, those mistakes are also made eternal.

The way I see Religion these days is through the lens of my own recent spiritual development. I discovered to my dismay about a year ago that I had a serious addiction that I could not break on my own. I started going to a 12-step support group (like Alchoholics-Anonymous). 12-step groups are inherently spiritual, but non-relgious.

I think too many people get to caught up in ideas about religion being about the next life. I truly hope they will not be disappointed, but am somewhat unoptimistic. I see Religion and spirituality as being about this life -- as for me, breaking free of a powerful addiction that was and still is stopping me from meeting my full potential as a human being. I believe that as I embrace God, as I understand God, I am on a road to a spiritual experience in this life, that will also extend beyond it. I can see the results of my spiritual progress first hand as the addiction subsides.

A lot of religion is about politics. Justifying the status quo so to speak, and about judging. I don't feel that anyone has the right to judge me, nor do I have the right to judge others. If anyone ever thinks I'm judging them, let me know, as this is something I need to correct immediately.

Have you read any Nietzsche? (Despite the bad press- he is NOT a nazi)

You should look at "The Anti-Christ" and then "Thus Spake Zarathustra"

He's online at:

Never heard the rumor that Nietzsche was one.

Hitler misunderstood Nietzsche's concept of the "superman" to mean the same thing as an 'Aryan' race. He didn't realise that it was an ideal for ALL mankind.

Many people make the mistake of dismissing Nietzsche because of Hitler's interest in it.

I think it is a sign of the intellectual stupidity of our times, that we are willing to sideline things just because someone we don't like supposedly had an interest in it. The same thing is true for the movie Metropolis, which is a fantastic movie and has nothing to do with Nazism, as far as I know.

Are you talking about the anime or the original silent movie?

I've only seen the anime and that seemed to be the opposite of Nazism. It seemed to be an anti-nazi movie, because it is about how badly the robots are treated.

To be honest, if you read Twighlight Of The Idols it is quite easy to misinterpret Nietzsche as a darwinist. He talks of breeding better people, but the thing is that Nietzsche often talks in metaphors....

Not an anime fan. Only seen the silent film. If the anime version is any good, I might rent it. What's the story behind it.

As for Neitzche and Darwin -- a lot of the ideas that permeate this culture that are often mistaken for Darwinism can actually be traced back to ancient Egyptian relgious notions.

I don't like the Wakasowois idea of humanity. apperently, we are just some other species of barbarian. This is not, REPEAT, this is not true. A more acurate depiction of humanity is the one in the Butlerahn Jihad (Dune, in which they kill Thinking Machines) in which one man CREATES A RELIGION to whip up the peasents into a fury. They didn't show the clever side of humanity. And the clever side is MUCH more dangerous than the animal inside

I think that I-Robot has a connection with part I.

scientheist wrote:

Have u guys noticed the Jewish connection in Second Renaissance ? In the beginning machines are showed as slaves ("Though loyal and pure, the machines earned no respect from their masters"). The hebrews were initially slaves working for the pharoah. " machines sought refuge in their own promised land." The machines built their city zero-one in Palestine (persian gulf is shown and it zooms in on Palestine). "Promised Land", a clear reference to Israel. (ie) Zero-one = Israel Jews are not suppose to have a state until the return of the Messiah. Ask any true Jew. "Zero One prospered, and for a time, it was good. The machines' artificial intelligence could be seen in every facet of society, including the creation of new and better AI." Some say that Israel is a technologically sophisticated nation. "Zero One's ambassadors pleaded to be heard. At the United Nations they presented plans for a stable, civil relationship with the nations of man. Zero One's admission to the United Nations was denied." If u remember the history, most of the nations in the world refused (and some still refuse) to recognize Israel as a nation. "So the leaders of men conceived of their most desperate strategy yet. A final solution - the destruction of the sky" "Final Solution" is the same word which refers to Hitler's Jewish genocide. In short, Machines = Jews Zero-one = Israel So, what r the bros trying to convey in Second Renaissance ?

Jews are not suppose to have a state until the return of the Messiah. Ask any true Jew and they will tell you the same. If they tell you otherwise, they are zionist, not Jewish.

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