»Chopping off heads in the cocoons«

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*continued from post:* matrix-explained.com... I think the Zionites would have to be pretty stupid not to realize that something was wrong if they could bring objects from the Matrix over into the real world.

The Zionites ARE stupid.

They don't understand that the machines let them live in Zion.

When someone wakes up from the Matrix, the responsible sentinel would cut their head of and liquify them or give them electroshock and reload them into the matrix.

By doing this, there would be no Zion, there would be no anomalies, and there would be no need for extra programs like agents or oracles.

emp wrote:

When someone wakes up from the Matrix, the responsible sentinel would cut their head of and liquify them or give them electroshock and reload them into the matrix.

Great idea!! Have added this

The reason they aren't immediately killed is because the red pill changes your carrier signal to make the machines that run the power plant (if you look closely you notice they are not sentinels) think you are a dead body, so they flush you down the tube to later be liquified.

So why don't the machines secure the death? Why not a short lethal shock? Why not break up the "dead" bodies in parts, just to make sure they are really dead and not fresh meat for Zion?

knnknn wrote:

So why don't the machines secure the death? Why not a short lethal shock? Why not break up the "dead" bodies in parts, just to make sure they are really dead and not fresh meat for Zion?

Are you some kind of sadomasochist?

Because they need Zion. They need Zion to control the One.

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Because they need Zion. They need Zion to control the One.

Pay attention. There wouldn't be a One.

Nope. The ONE would always exist. He is not just one single human, he is a flaw in their entire system. Therefore he is an eventuality that the machines could never be fully rid of because a new one will eventually arise. The machines therefore allow for Zion in order to control the ONES actions...

knnknn wrote:

So why don't the machines secure the death? Why not a short lethal shock? Why not break up the "dead" bodies in parts, just to make sure they are really dead and not fresh meat for Zion?

It is possible that the machines have no idea how people escape from the matrix. If this is true, then a machine, valuing effiency above all, would have no reason to go around "re-killing" humans that it perceives as dead. Just unplug, flush, and move on, never with a thought that the "dead" could be going on to populate Zion.

So you mean machines are so dumb that they can't understand where all those 250.000 came from?

Hyphen wrote:

a machine, valuing effiency above all, would have no reason to go around "re-killing" humans that it perceives as dead.

I see no reason to cut out an extra-kill. A little Arsenic infusion...

ExecNight wrote:

So you mean machines are so dumb that they can't understand where all those 250.000 came from?

They understand that the 250,000 Zionites somehow escaped from their pods, they just can't figure out the device by which they did it. I mean, if you hadn't seen the power plant scene, could you have guessed that the escapees "pretend" to be dead and then are picked up after flushing? The machines would have no clue either. Maybe they think that Morpheus and his crew fly the hovercrafts right into the plants and remove the bodies themselves. It's a much more obvious guess.

knnknn wrote:

I see no reason to cut out an extra-kill. A little Arsenic infusion...

Well, it might seem like a good idea in hindsight, but the machines would never have thought that there was any reason for going around re-killing the dead in the first place. (Besides, I think that arsenic infused bodies wouldn't be the healthiest thing to liquefy and feed to the living)

stinkz wrote:

Nope. The ONE would always exist. He is not just one single human, he is a flaw in their entire system. Therefore he is an eventuality that the machines could never be fully rid of because a new one will eventually arise. The machines therefore allow for Zion in order to control the ONES actions...

The One isn't The One until he has been freed by Morpheus and trained, taken to The Oracle, etc. etc.

When Neo wakes up in the real world pod, the machine who releases him could easily snap his head off.

This would remove all problems related to Zion, The One, Choice, etc.

My solution: The agreement between man and machine (seen in Animatrix: 2nd. ren) states that those who awake from the matrix are not to be killed instantly.

emp wrote:

When Neo wakes up in the real world pod, the machine who releases him could easily snap his head off.

Especially if you have seen Animatrix, where the black runner is killed on purpose in his pod.

f4g wrote:

emp wrote: When Neo wakes up in the real world pod, the machine who releases him could easily snap his head off. Especially if you have seen Animatrix, where the black runner is killed on purpose in his pod.

He is not killed. He just gets his mind wiped and then he is reinserted.

emp wrote:

He is not killed. He just gets his mind wiped and then he is reinserted.

Brain-dead, then.

knnknn wrote:

emp wrote: He is not killed. He just gets his mind wiped and then he is reinserted. Brain-dead, then.

Yeah, he is "Brain-Killed". So I guess he was reinserted 'coz there was so many spectators that he couldn't just disappear.

What we know:

- People wake from the matrix-sleep by the help of a red pill or by themselves (Kid, World Record man))

- When they wake up, the machines free the individual without harming him/her in any way, except from in World Record where the awakening was witnessed by too many people, and the individual had to be reinserted.

So the questions are:

Why does the machines wait until later with killing the Zionites. Why not kill them ASAP? (Possible answer is the contract signed in 2nd. Ren.)

How did the Kid get from his pod to the Neb.? He didn't eat a red pill, so they didn't have his location.

emp wrote:

How did the Kid get from his pod to the Neb.? He didn't eat a red pill, so they didn't have his location.

Good question.

(Maybe people who "self-substanciate"(sp?) give off an unusual signal or something)

As for why they don't kill off the "freed" people ASAP, maybe the drones that unplug them just merely follow commands from the pod tower control system. So much for AI, huh?

emp wrote:

I guess he was reinserted 'coz there was so many spectators that he couldn't just disappear.

Does the body disappear? Maybe it's just lying around. (Hey, that the way how people die: They die in their cocoons and the body gets buried!)

1) The bodies diappear when they are going back to Zion. This is because their bodies are a hack into the Matrix. But even after Cypher pulled the plug for Switch (he switched off the white flesh of the chick, so to speak) her body didn't disappear.

2) We don't know what happens with the bodies when they are unplugged from the cocoon. We cannot even be sure that they are covered in silver, because this could be something that only Neo saw.

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Does the body disappear? Maybe it's just lying around. (Hey, that the way how people die: They die in their cocoons and the body gets buried!)

You are correct. Well, there must be a reason the World Record guy was plugged back in.

Maybe it was because he reached enlightenment not because of the systemic anomaly, but pure willpower. Ergo, not a threat to the system.

Maybe I should send another letter.

this contract everyone keeps mentioning...i have one problem with it. why would the machines honor such a thing? wouldn't there have to be some kind of human or person left alive on the surface (not in zion) for something like that to matter? the people that have signed on that document have long since drifted down to the soil in the form of radioactive dust. i just don't see how this can be used any longer as a reason for anything that the machines do...

Da_IcE wrote:

...why would the machines honor such a thing?...

Yeah, particularly since it was a United Nations contract and especially if the machies were American



(puts on flame retardent underwear)

marl64 wrote:

Da_IcE wrote: ...why would the machines honor such a thing?... Yeah, particularly since it was a United Nations contract and especially if the machies were American (puts on flame retardent underwear)

Lol. If the machines were from the States, they would probably bomb the matix on a regular basis.