»Seraph«

Id like to hear your ideas on Seraph. Why is he gold? What makes him special? How did he betray the Merovingian? I have my own theories but would like to hear yours. Include aspects of religion and computer science if you have any.

personally, i think he's gold because he's the only program we see that isn't using a shell that was made by the Matrix. everything that Neo sees in the real world with his blind-sight is gold, Seraph is the only program we see through Neo's eyes that isn't riding a shell of some kind. if we take a look at who we see through Neo's eyes we get:

Agents: riding around in human hosts (green)
the Oracle: wearing a different shell, but where'd it come from? a volunteer? is it programmed by her? what? we don't know, but it don't matter...it's still a shell. (green)
Seraph: the only program we see that (presumably) is still wearing his original skin (gold)

that there's what i think of why Seraph's gold.

But the oracle is gold, why does everyone keep forgetting this? Or am I the one that's wrong? As far as I can remember, in Revolutions, smith takes over a gold body and turns it green.

Anywho, Seraph, I don't have the faintest idea, I presume he worked for the Merovingian, then maybe he became disgusted with him, possibly broke his code and went to protect the Oracle, there is definately a whole other sotry between the Oracle and the Merovingian, I hope the Wachowski's explain it soon, and with lots of high-flying kung fu and philosophy thrownin with it.

That's the whole "angel without his wings" thing that I was wondering.

I think that Seraph is gold because he
a) might be a relatively new program. He either wasn't in existance in M1 or just no one new about him.
b) he's an angel. Often cherebum (I THINK that's what their called. They're Jewish angel sort of things) are often made out of gold, along with other religion's versions on angels. But that's kind of a crummy explanation.
c) Maybe the programmers have different colors. Like, when a programmer made the Agents, all of his codes were green looking. And when Seraph was made, maybe he was made by a different programmer who's color was gold.

hope this helps!

timothy wrote:

But the oracle is gold, why does everyone keep forgetting this? Or am I the one that's wrong? As far as I can remember, in Revolutions, smith takes over a gold body and turns it green.

in the Revolutions that i saw, the body was green the whole time in that scene.

About the gold, you know Seraph is supposed to be a FIREwall. Also, the Seraphim angels' love for God or something was supposed to burn like FIRE. Opinions?

why is this topic even here...there are several thread related top seraph which explain the questions you have asked...

I wanted to get opinions from the people I know.

By the way, the anomaly, do you believe that the Merovingian was the original program created to find the flaw in the 1st matrix's collapse?

With the Merovingian thing, maybe there's proff Seraph worked for him because because at some point the Merovingian calls him "my little Judas" possibly referring to Judas Iscariot who betrayed Jesus.
And I deffinitely agree with AG on the firewall and Seraphim thing. PLus, Seraphims were the highest angels, so maybe they get a special color

I agree, too. Here is a picture that proves that the Oracle was green.
It's not the best, but it will do the trick.
matrix-explained.com...

Thats good. So i guess we can say that the Oracle's code is green. As the Brothers said, the names have been carefully crafted and have different meanings relating to different mythos. So the angel thing, the being in the first matrix thing, the firewall thing are all correct. They're all different interpretations. Our job is to find as many interpretations as we can.

I remember reading a thread about Seraph that said he use to be an angel from the first matrix's. I think that Merovingian saved him as he did the vampires in reloaded to do his dirty work or what have you, but then he betrayed him the whole judas line explains it, someone also said one of the guards says something like "no wings" I dunno if this is true I cant remember anywho it sounds like a cool theory I hear the brothers are going to make a game soley based on seraph to explain his history but im not positive on this just a rumor off the web. As for his color not sure I just figured he was gold because he was "special" as in the oracle hacked into his programming, changing him to protect herself from o say the merovingian like when neo said "programs hacking programs" maybe the gold appearance was to show that his code(self) had been altered, or it could also be different because he is from an older version of the matrix kept by the merovingian, because we dont really know if the first matrix's were green just my theory.

Ya I would love to see a movie or something on Seraph and Merv.

Akshat Gupta wrote:

By the way, the anomaly, do you believe that the Merovingian was the original program created to find the flaw in the 1st matrix's collapse?

i think that is possible yes...we are told he is a programme that has existed from the very beginning...this rules out that he is a former "one"

i think that perhaps it was he who was written/chosen to find out what CAUSED the first matrix collapse

because of machine logic they thought that if the effect was the matrix collapsing then something must have caused it

hence a cause and effect based programme was written to find out...this programme was the merovingian

the oracle programme then was either written/chosen to do what the merovingian was originally designed to do and she succeeded and so the merovingian was replaced by her (this is what she took from him as refered to in revolutions...his purpose)

or more likely...the oracle was written to investigate the human psyche as we are told in reloaded and she did in fact "stumble on a solution whereby 99% of all test subjects accepted the programming and this is the way the merovingian was replaced and exiled into the matrix

why do you ask

Akshat Gupta wrote:

I wanted to get opinions from the people I know.

sorry if my post sounded a bit sharp...its only reading it now that it didnt come across quite right

Previously I was about to say that the program who was supposed to do that was the `mother' and Architect does say `SHE stumbled upon....'.

But now this makes sense. Merv was the original one to do that but he couldn't for some reason and became an exile as you said. Then the Oracle did it and she is credited as the `Mother'. Very interesting indeed. Explains a lot.

Explains:
1. Merv's ranting about causality.
2. How he became an exile.
3. Why he is considered the leader of the exiles and has the most power- he must have been the first exile program.
4. His `fall from heaven'. If you believe any of Merv's Biblical relations then we believe that he once was with God (Architect) but then had a falling out with him and left.

Anybody like to comment on this?

Good point about the wings quote, machine_program05! But tell me then, 9anyone)how does an angel come to be in the matrix?

Quote:

Good point about the wings quote, machine_program05! But tell me then, 9anyone)how does an angel come to be in the matrix?

OH, a LOT!
You know the biblical story of Adam and Eve? The Angel was the gardian to keep them out of the Garden. Some believe that the first Matrix was the Garden of Eden.

Now, I have NO IDEA how Seraph would fit into that, because you have to wonder, didn't the 1st Matrix end WHEN Adam and Eve (a.k.a pod-people) were banished? I mean, that wouldn't be very logical to have Seraph in the first place if he was only going to be there for like, 5 minutes.
I do have a theory on this though:

HOW THIS WORKS: When the machines realized that everyone was rejecting the perfect world, they created Seraph. While the Matrix was being redesigned, the people would float in a construct kind of thing (and then wake up in the new world thinking they had a dream). Seraph could be the one to stop people from:
1. Rioting or something
2. Trying to go back to the Matrix. Not that they would, because they seemed to hate it.

Here's 2 more theories:
1. What if Seraph was created to protect the Oracle from the Mero. I'm pretty sure that the Mero would be pretty ticked at the Oracle for endangering his being (he was exiled, almost deleted), AND taking his job. He and his band of werewolf/ghost/whatever outcasts probably were very intent on getting revenge. This only 1/2 explains why Merv calls Seraph Judah, though.

2. Seraph used to do his dirty work, maybe as a dark angel or something (that exists in religion, too, right? The Angel of Death?), but when Merv was exiled, Seraph refused to go with him, instead protecting the Oracle as his new job.

That's just a FEW ideas, too.

Good Ideas Splintey but a bit limited. There are a lot of angels you know. Forget about the Adam and Eve thing for now. That is a different angel than Seraph. I have a theory about everything to do with Seraph. Tell me if there are any concerns.

Okay, angels served God. Seraph is an angel figure and Architect is a God figure (A God FIGURE, Splinty, dont get mad now). So it makes sense that Seraph once served the Architect. Then Seraph betrayed the Architect for some reason and went to the dark side to work for the Merovingian. The Merovingian protected Seraph as one of his exiles if he did dirty work for him. Seraph was then made good again when the Oracle rescued her from Merv's influence. He has protected her ever since and is `forever in her debt'. Thats why Merv thinks Seraph betrayed him. This fits in with Seraph's role as a protector and someone who betrayed the Marovingian.

Thoughts?

But AG, I thought you said that a program has to have a Purpose? What was Seraph's Purpose? Maybe he isn't a program? That's a lot of Purpose's for one program, if you ask me!

OOps. Forgot about that. Seraph's original purpose was to serve the Architect. For some reason he betrayed that and became an exile. Maybe he was gonna be deleted. Anyway, so he became an exile and that explains why Smith would be chasing him. He served Merv then and then got rescued by the Oracle who either reprogrammed him or something and made him her protector. Someone else has mentioned the idea of the Oracle changing Seraph's programming as well.

better?

It's genius! (Now that it's explained) By Joe, I think you've got it!

Thanks.