»BBC's Horizon suggests Matrix a possibilty?«

Horizon on the BBC tonight was on the subject of time travel.

One hypothosis had a familiar sounding conclusion;

Quote:

Future civilisations could use computers to create exact replicas of the past. Unfortunately that idea has physics trembling in its socks. Because if you can generate a perfect virtual reality version of the past, who's to say we are not one of the replicas?

bbc.co.uk...

I'm so peed off..I've not been in very long and had no idea this was on tonight...Do you have any more info ?

Just got back from a 'journey around the excellent links at the Horizon site', well worth taking a look at. Thanks for drawing my attention to this..Got to go now got much reading to do!

hahaha,,,you watched it too...it was quite freaky

i posted in the matrix theories thread too for anyone who wants to read what i think they were jibbering about

the anomaly wrote:

hahaha,,,you watched it too...it was quite freaky i posted in the matrix theories thread too for anyone who wants to read what i think they were jibbering about

or goto

simulation-argument.com...

the anomaly wrote:

or goto simulation-argument.com...

I like the logic in the statement (from "Original Simulation Argument")

Quote:

(1) the human species is very likely to go extinct before reaching a “posthuman” stage.

Doesn't "posthuman" mean "after humans"? and wouldn't that require us to be extinct?

Or am I being picky?

(well it's only a simulation)

show your face you shady man...hahaha....

heres a freaky theory

in the far future humans will evolve...the need for intelligence and brain power will mean the head size will increase and due to technological advances,the need for physical strength will diminish.resulting in a smaller,thinner body shape

our sensory inputs will most likely evolve to become better tuned and accurate and as we rely mostly on sight...the eyes will get bigger

if this society is far enough into the future to be living outwith the confines of a star/sun system then the pigments in our skin will become obsolete...

so to summarise...we will become tiny bodied,large headed,grey beings with huge eyes....

does this remind you of anything...

put this into the context of the thread and you have a very disturbing picture

I've pondered for many years the argument that aliens are simply advanced evolutionary humans, who, either lived here, or live elsewhere in the universe.

Either way, this leads me to think that different species like Star Trek or Star wars suggests are totally foolish, and that we can only evolve as human beings. On the other hand, if birds or cats evolved into more sentient beings, there could be physical variations on "other intelligent life"

So, the reason why aliens are seen as weird freaks of nature, is because we as humans have never experienced them before, nor do we have much of an incling as to what we will be when we evolve further.

so yes, I totally agree with the "Aliens are simply further evolved humans" theory.

anyhow, im blabbeling and thinking too much.! bye ;D

but does this indicate the point of the thread in that we are infact simply simulations of the future humans evolutionary history

Maybe the little grey guys are here to upgrade their simulation...

I guess I am from the old school and believe that the Bible is about man's struggle against those who would enslave him, ie, Pharohs, Kings, and other governments and that we are made in the image of the Ultimate Upgrade who:

Christians call Elohim or GOD.
Jews call JEHOVAH or Yahweh.
Moslems call ALLAH (which means "The God")

The same God of Abraham for all of the above. How can you become more advanced than the Ultimate "One" who knows all?

If we are made in his image, and Jesus said when asked what God looks like said he looked just like him..."Those that have seen me have seen the Father."

No big Head, little body there.

omg that theory is older than my grandma and is stupid to the core...same deal goes with the multiverse theory or for time travelers> kill ur mother before she gave birth to you... (no i actually love the last one, how can u kill your mother before she gave birth to you i mean if u kill her she cant give birth to you and then u couldnt kill her because u never existed )

well you can go and argue with the professor from oxford university and we will see who has the more convincing argument

the anomaly wrote:

well you can go and argue with the professor from oxford university and we will see who has the more convincing argument

Yeah, totally agree with you there. I've had some contact with Professor Nick Bostrom since the showing of the horizon programme...He's a very interesting character and he obviously knows what he is talking about...

well i can tell you this if thats the case than you cant be sure of anything and i doubt it... i beleive in myself.

Freedom wrote:

I guess I am from the old school and believe that the Bible is about... ...How can you become more advanced than the Ultimate "One" who knows all?... ...If we are made in his image... ...No big Head, little body there.

The point is, if this were a simulation, then your Bible, God and His Image would all be part of it. And no amount of quoting scripture would change that basic premise.

In this context, any "true god" would have to exist outside the simulation and could well have a diminutive grey appearence, how would we know?

In fact don't some religions believe we are simply imperfect shadows of perfect beings?

John Mirra wrote:

...for time travelers... ...how can u kill your mother before she gave birth to you...

That's easy, you just have to read the subject of the thread.

You can kill (a simulation of) your mother as many times as you like, it doesn't effect your birth one bit.

John Mirra wrote:

well i can tell you this if thats the case than you cant be sure of anything and i doubt it... i beleive in myself.

its good that someone does eh?

hahaha

nah!

only kidding mate

marl64 wrote:

John Mirra wrote: ...for time travelers... ...how can u kill your mother before she gave birth to you... That's easy, you just have to read the subject of the thread. You can kill (a simulation of) your mother as many times as you like, it doesn't effect your birth one bit.

thats beside the point

In terms of the indirect evidence Albert Eistein had a lot of trouble with the concept / theory of Quantum Physics due to it's absurd nature. He once famously said "God does not play dice". He tried for a long time trying to disprove it but only ended up assisting with its proof! The reference he made was to the weird statistical nature of the behaviour of things on the small scale and the inherent uncertainty associated with an event. You can never know everything when studying / observing a tiny object (atom, photon etc.).

My own personal theory is that the reason we have this bizarreness is simple. Quite literally. It's a simple computationally effective way of modelling the small and the many. Which leads to the idea that in the real world there isn't this bizarreness and that things are much more orderly - Newtonian and Einsteinian! Which if true means there is NO free will in the real world. This is because you could predict every single thing that will happen in the future - even with regards to the decisions a lifeform will make - because you know everything there is to know with certainty. It's like pool balls on a pool table. As I may have mentioned it seems that Quantum Physics could be the reason why we have free will (or seem to have) - see the work by Sir Roger Penrose and co. on the Quantum Mind.

Hence this in itself could be a reason why such a sim / matrix be created in the first place. To give the occupants of the real world a break from them knowing everything there is to know (past, present, and future). The sim / matrix is a world with Uncertainty. Back to the Heaven and Earth thing I guess! I am working on another story based around this concept now but like everything else time is always against us.

Additional evidence? In Quantum Physics (Mechanics) an event does not happen / occur until it is observed. The very act of observation / measurement is what collapses the wave function and makes the event fall into a final state. Consider the Shrodingers (sp?) cat paradox (try google) in which the cat is neither alive nor dead until someone opens the sealed box and observes it. It's purrfect (sorry about the pun) from a computational / simulation perspective since you only need to model what should happen for the outcome of an event ONLY if it has been observed. Dont model everything JUST model what is needed! Hence, this saves you massive processing time.

Then again I could just be talking a load of tosh!

N

thats pretty good stuff...most of it went over my head though...im a biology and chemisrty man and i hate physics

but if the theory that things do not exist until they are observed could be a corner stone in the matrix functions

in order to save computational power...the machines/architect/whoever calculates the parts of the matrix which are being obseved at any one time by monitoring the living inhabitants of the matrix(humans only as presuming that it is only humans that are plugged in and not animals too)and not running the programmes for say...a persons house while no one is at home.

if this makes sense

Sorry. Its my rushed typing and poor explanation most probably.

It is the end result of the interaction that does not occur until it is observed or measured.

Back to the Shrodingers cat idea. The cat is in a sealed box with a dangerous material that if it it decays / emits particles it will definately kill the cat. If it does not decay / emit the cat will remain alive.
Now, the decay / emission process is a quantum event which means that until the box is opened and someone or something observes the cat's state then the cat is neither alive nor dead. It's existing in both states at once - a sort of limbo.

Upshot is that the Matrix system does not bother calculating the cat's state unless someone / something observes it.

Suppose the cat was dead and was never ever observed. This would have been a waste of computing time for the matrix system working out how the cat is to die etc. etc.. Making things simpler for the matrix system would be to Just compute the outcome of an event if someone is looking otherwise do nothing - leave the situation in limbo without answer.

Its a little like a 3D computer game. The CPU / GPU only draws and shades what the user observers in the view port or screen to save processing power. You only see, and it only computes, what you need to see.

the little grey aliens aren't actually grey, they are wearing a protective suit and goggles to protect them from the sun, their skin is actually pink
just ask Credo Mutwa the Zulu Sanusi, he once ate the flesh of one

First time I've heard of this and it sounds pretty scary. But who's to say? Hopefully we will never get to this point, or atleast not at that point at this moment.

The Thirteenth Floor anyone?[/b]