»Why Neo says: "Hmm, upgrades..." in Reloaded.«

On the main page at matrix-explained.com there is a small bit about why Neo says: "Hmm, upgrades..." at the beginning of Matrix: Reloaded when he is fighting the Agents. Here is my explanation:

When the Agents attacks Neo he blocks all attacks easily with one hand. On the last hit however he has to take his other hand from his back and block it with that hand.

So that means the Agents are upgraded because he can't win from them with one hand on his back (like he did with Smith at the end of The Matrix).

You could see more into it, but I think this answer makes sense

Archy

yeah..thats right...but how are the agents upgraded...is it simply through encounters with neo and are programmed that way or is it technological advancments outwith the matrix...or is it use of the information gained from the anomaly code at the end of each cycle as well

also...if these agents are more powerful than smith then how is smith simply able to replicate himself over them with such ease...remember that smith only seems to get more powerful as he assimilates powerful programmes like the oracle

Heh... Let me not try to answer that... I honestly have no clear idea about that.

My gut feeling tells me it's the way they are programmed, perhaps a small bugfix done on the agents program or something...

And since Smith became a computer virus he can probably take on every program (that doesn't run a proper virus scanner), no matter how powerful it is, since the original code stays mostly the same, only some of the malicious Smith part is copied over the original program.

The answer is simpler than you are all thinking. Everyone on this site looks too far into things. The Agents are just software. They can be upgraded just like we can upgrade a program on out computer. It's that simple.

i think that most things in the matrix are never as simple as they appear...or at least appear to be more complicated than they are...or...oh never mind...even im confused now...hahaha

archaon wrote:

On the main page at matrix-explained.com there is a small bit about why Neo says: "Hmm, upgrades..." at the beginning of Matrix: Reloaded when he is fighting the Agents. Here is my explanation: When the Agents attacks Neo he blocks all attacks easily with one hand. On the last hit however he has to take his other hand from his back and block it with that hand. So that means the Agents are upgraded because he can't win from them with one hand on his back (like he did with Smith at the end of The Matrix). You could see more into it, but I think this answer makes sense Archy

Hmmm.. no shit

I believe that the agents were upgraded to for the sake of Neo that is all. The system (that being the matrix) relised that the agents of M1 were no good against the anomly.

Well I have good reasons to think that those were not agents but Smith himself, hence the upgrade thing.

Because Morpheus can barely hold against Smith in M1 but he does pretty well against agent johnson. Not to mention the fact that Link said that these agents came out of nowhere and that the code was weird, "something he had never seen before". Agents can't come out of nowhere, they need a human being there first so they can take over their body.

Moreover, Smith arrives a short moment before and after the fight and when he's there, we don't see the agent that was lying in the street.

The second Smith talkign to the first one arrives from the room where the battle began. Neo, before flying, feels something but sees nothing.

This is more obvious when we see Smith appearing from nowhere before the burly brawl. Crows are flying away, meaning that he just appeared there. And all the others Smith come from nowhere too and Neo is amazed to see them showing up.

And last but not least, listen the little sound that happens just after Smith says "it went as expected ?". You hear a metallic piece falling and bouncing on the floor. That's the sound of an agent's earphone falling just before Smith transforms himself from Agent to Smith.

Btw, that would explain too how the matrix was not completly infected by Smith but, a few hours after, Smith was everywhere. That's too short to take over the whole world. So, I am pretty sure that Smith had infected eveyone but that he had the ability to let his victims go on as before until he decides otherwise.

Of course, I know that people won't agree with me because, like the matrix, you must think and see beyond apparences.

Well Smith, when he was an agent seemed like the most skillful agent. Morpheus did ok against the agent on the truck but almost died when he got chucked off, he simply beat him with the advantage of suprise. I believe with Matt_Matrix, a few too people do goto far on this site to answer things but its obvious that the agents are gonna get upgraded if they wanna beat the One. It doesn't matter how strong the person or program is, all Smith does is copy his code over the victim but an agent takes control of pod people but cant take over any of Smith bodies as he probably still has the coding from when he was agent that would stop agents from taking the same body at the same time. Theres no way of stopping him because he attacks to fast like a virus & anti-viruses are always made on the system without the initial virus.

Saying the agents have upgrades after Neo saying it & seeing an agent catch one of his punches is one of the most moronic things I've ever heard.

Nothing says that Smith is more skilfull than any other agent, he's just the principal bad guy, that's all. On the other hand, saying that an upgraded agent is still under Smith's skill don't make sense at all, especially if even Neo can make the difference.

Morpheus not only killed the agent, he fought very well against him, while he didn't stand 2 minutes against Smith, moreover battling on the top of a truck is not making things easy.

If Smith had to infect every human being one per one, It would take much longer than a few hours. He should have started it earlier wich is not the case since when Neo goes the Oracle, everything is normal. Don't you think that we should have been seeing everywhere on tv news that a strange man in black is taking over the world ?

For the rest, you didn't answer to my other arguments like Link's comments and all.

Hmmmm.... me saying Smith was the most skillful agent when he was one was foolish. I think Morpheus & Trinity being able to fight Agents so well (UPGRADED AGENTS) is for they have been enlightened by Neo in a sence. They have freed their minds even further then their once limited approach to what they could do in the Matrix. Maybe there'll be an Animatrix Episode about Smith's taking of the Matrix. CANT WAIT FOR ANIMATRIX 2!

Apocryphe wrote:

Because Morpheus can barely hold against Smith in M1 but he does pretty well against agent johnson.

i think this has more to do with Morpheus's sense of purpose and confidence in himself due to the events in M1 than anything else.

Apocryphe wrote:

This is more obvious when we see Smith appearing from nowhere before the burly brawl.

nice of you to bring up the Burly Brawl...the Agent that shows up there is surprised to see Smith. since we have no on-screen evidence otherwise, we believe that this is the same Agent that got beaten by Neo after the Captain's meeting. if these Agents were Smith, then why would he be so surprised to see Smith there?

Apocryphe wrote:

The second Smith talkign to the first one arrives from the room where the battle began. Neo, before flying, feels something but sees nothing.

this is just supposition on your part.

Apocryphe wrote:

Crows are flying away, meaning that he just appeared there. And all the others Smith come from nowhere too and Neo is amazed to see them showing up.

while i tend to agree with the first appearence of Smith in this scene, the other Smiths come from places where they could have been inside or otherwise hidden.


your theory is well-thought out, but it's not supported by any evidence. the sound at Smith walking up could have just as easily been an earpiece falling because Smith just took over the Agent (or host) that just got beat, OR the sound could have been Smith's shoe on a piece of glass. the street is covered in it from the falling lamp part.

Quote:

i think this has more to do with Morpheus's sense of purpose and confidence in himself due to the events in M1 than anything else.

Well that is supposition too Don't you think that Morpheus would fight for his life and the prophecy that he was defending as much in M1 than in M2 ? It is a little bit light as an argument.

Quote:

the Agent that shows up there is surprised to see Smith.

About the surprise of the Agent : they had not met before because Smith does not need to infect a program to invest it, he does that only with programs occupying human bodies (like the Oracle or The Merovingien do, explaining so how they could escape Smith). As the Architecte said, the anomaly is affecting even the most simplistic equations, meaning that the anomaly is in every program at every level. Smith was able to copy other program's hability without them even knowing it.

If not, how explain that Smith had all the keys, how comes that he knew where special doors were, the door leading to the source included?

Don't forget that Agents can't die : if the body they occupy dies, they reapear in someone else's body. So, even if SMith had copied that agent before, Smith only took over the body the Agent was occupying (meaning the woman with tomatoes).
That's a fact 100%, because we see that same agent at the end of Reloaded trying to kill Trinity. So you see, he survived Smith by hosting another body as Agents always do

Quote:

Quote: The second Smith talkign to the first one arrives from the room where the battle began. Neo, before flying, feels something but sees nothing. this is just supposition on your part.

You must be kidding, right ? Please watch the scene again.

Quote:

while i tend to agree with the first appearence of Smith in this scene, the other Smiths come from places where they could have been inside or otherwise hidden.

Impossible, I have watched it over and over... most of the others Smith cannot come from doors.

And for the sound of the earphone... it is defintly not the sound of a glass and remember that it is bouncing.
Anyway, why put such a sound if it has no meaning. The scenes were shoot in studios and 99% of the sounds that you hear on screen are added by specialist of sound effects after the shooting. Even the sound of Smith walking on glass is not the original one. So that noise cannot be there by chance, it was purposely put there.

Hmm... that's not a bad idea. All that theory would explain why Seraph had to fight each guy who wanted to meet the oracle. He says that it is to recognize them, but why does he need to fight them since he sees their faces ?

It directly implies that there is a program able to change his shift; or else why does Seraph check them ?

Hey apocryphe, I guess by your name that you are french. I'm from Lille, and you ?

Cya !

No, I am from Belgium, but I'm glad to have someone speaking french around.

Apocryphe wrote:

Don't forget that Agents can't die.

Smith died. Tou-fucking-che!

Apocryphe wrote:

Quote: The second Smith talkign to the first one arrives from the room where the battle began. Neo, before flying, feels something but sees nothing. this is just supposition on your part.

You must be kidding, right ? Please watch the scene again.[/quote]

i'm not talking about Neo, i'm talking about where the second Smith came from. where did you see that he came from the room? not in the movie...

Apocryphe wrote:

Well I have good reasons to think that those were not agents but Smith himself, hence the upgrade thing. Because Morpheus can barely hold against Smith in M1 but he does pretty well against agent johnson. Not to mention the fact that Link said that these agents came out of nowhere and that the code was weird, "something he had never seen before". Agents can't come out of nowhere, they need a human being there first so they can take over their body. Moreover, Smith arrives a short moment before and after the fight and when he's there, we don't see the agent that was lying in the street. The second Smith talkign to the first one arrives from the room where the battle began. Neo, before flying, feels something but sees nothing. This is more obvious when we see Smith appearing from nowhere before the burly brawl. Crows are flying away, meaning that he just appeared there. And all the others Smith come from nowhere too and Neo is amazed to see them showing up. And last but not least, listen the little sound that happens just after Smith says "it went as expected ?". You hear a metallic piece falling and bouncing on the floor. That's the sound of an agent's earphone falling just before Smith transforms himself from Agent to Smith. Btw, that would explain too how the matrix was not completly infected by Smith but, a few hours after, Smith was everywhere. That's too short to take over the whole world. So, I am pretty sure that Smith had infected eveyone but that he had the ability to let his victims go on as before until he decides otherwise. Of course, I know that people won't agree with me because, like the matrix, you must think and see beyond apparences.

Err...not quite. The upgraded Agents were NOT Smith.

The upgrades comment simply suggests that the agents are now a wee bit more advanced than those in M1. Its really very simple. Take the program 'Flash'. Flash 1 was good. But, when they realsied they could improve it, they made Flash 2. Same with the agents. Advancements were probably just made in their programming.

And the 'They came out of nowhere' line means that they simply arrived very quickly.

"And then the code got all wierd".

This is the arrival of Smith. Link isn't familiar with Smith (especially not the new Smith) and his anomolous prescence would have seemed, as he puts it "wierd".

"They came out of nowhere" is most probably a reference to the first appearance of the new agents, they have only just arrived in the matrix, having come from the source. The agents look different, they are big, muscular men and Neo clearly regards them as something new. The agents also appear to be seeing neo for the first time, they comment about it, asking there leader what they should do and he reassures them. Neo hears the agents coming and them entering the matrix for the first time would most probably make an echo that he can pick up.

Of course, everyoen forgt the strange code never-seen before, the fact that agents dont come out of nowhere etc.

So I won't debate about the obvious.

Of course, everyone forget the strange code never-seen before, the fact that agents cant come out of nowhere etc.

So I won't debate about the obvious.

Silvercat wrote:

"They came out of nowhere" is most probably a reference to the first appearance of the new agents, they have only just arrived in the matrix, having come from the source. The agents look different, they are big, muscular men and Neo clearly regards them as something new. The agents also appear to be seeing neo for the first time, they comment about it, asking there leader what they should do and he reassures them. Neo hears the agents coming and them entering the matrix for the first time would most probably make an echo that he can pick up.

Very nice point and I'm inclined to agree. But would the machines really leave the system vulnerable for 6 months? Perhaps there were other agents before Johnson and the reloaded crew.

Yes, i figured that Smith's two henchmen would still be present, trying to keep order, for that six months. We know that Morpheus and the captains freed more minds than ever in the last six months, so chances are the two agents got a repeated kicking from Neo, but soldiered on until the last.

Of course, they did run from Neo, so they could have fled for good, hard to say, even if they had done this i would assume that further version 1.0 agents of their ilk would be drafted in to replace them.

Considering how the new agents were actually left unconscious, something seemingly impossible for agents as we have seen, when Neo beats on them well...those old agents didnt stand a rats chance. They would still be a danger to normal hackers, so the only limit to how many minds could be freed would be ship availability...and how much coffee Neo can drink to keep him active. The machines probably upped the sentinel defences of the plant sewers also.

Azarn > "sigh" is all what i have to say at this point of deepness. Anyone with a little logic around here ?

Its all about overall balance in the system.

I try not to think about it as how do they upgrade - we could answer that in loads different ways. As the Merovingian might say its not the "HOW" thats important it is the "WHY".

The Architect and the oracle together represent the mechanism which achieve overall balance and function within Matrix - We haven't really questioned how Neo "upgrades" - as Neo gets better the system must balance him out - on the opposing side to Neo within the matrix you have the smith phenomenon plus the agents - the overall sum has to balance - otherwise the architect gets upset.

It's just a sarcastic remark people!