»Neo's power in real world (revised version)«

I posted this in another thread, but I think it would make sense to post it in a new thread....
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There is a seperate matrix. That matrix is the machine-world. It is like a computer network. Its purpose is to integrate all the machines in the real world. It forms the "machine conscious". The machine-world is a simulation in neo-real state ("Basic representation of a reality"). You can find more information on "Simulacra and Simulations". The reason why Neo sees japanes characters in the matrix is because they are an approximation of the real world objects. So Neo can manipulate their shapes etc. In the machine world, Neo sees solid objects because the real world object is EXACTLY represented, not approximated.

Machine-world <===> Mobil Ave (train station) <===> Matrix

Mobil Ave is the secret link between the machine world and the matrix. Its used by the Merovingian to bring unwanted programs (exiles) to the matrix. All the programs are compiled in the machine world. The machines use somewhat a similar link like the trainstation to bring in those programs. (Neo : "I'd say u (Oracle) r a program from the machine world")

Every program is born in the machine world. They are a part of the machine world. They have the orange-code-vision to become a part of this machine-world. The machines dont use cameras and microphones to interact with each other. They "see" each other using this orange-code-vision and interact. Only a program (which is the conscious part of a machine like sentinel etc.) with the orange-code-vision can "see" other programs. All these programs are controlled by the source. The source commands the programs/machines through this orange matrix.

Smith was born in the machine world. He has this orange-code-vision. When Neo and Smith merged, "something (was) overwritten, something (was) copied". That gave Smith the ability to replace Bane's mind with his program. Smith was able to goto the human world (Zion). Similarly Neo had got some of Smiths powers (ie) the orange-code-vision. Neo could sense the machine-world now because he has got this orange-code-vision. Thats how Neo suddenly woke up when Smithed-Bane came to the real world. But his powers in the machine world has not fully evolved and he has not realized this till the end of the M2.

Whenever a person survives a "mind-makes-it-real" death, he has greater degree of control over his mind. Note that the mind is responsible for bending/breaking the rules of the matrix. Consider these

1. Neo had his first mind-makes-it-real death when he took the red-pill. He survived and after that, he attained a new degree of control over his mind. Thats how he exercised his powers in the matrix like jumping 10 ft high and slamming Smith in the ceiling of subway, dodging bullets etc. Note that his mind powers raised from a zero (failing in first jump) to a maximum (dodging bullets)

2. Neo had his second mind-makes-it-real death when he was shot by Smith. He survived that and resurrected. After that he has a greater degree of mind control. Thats how he was able to see the true nature of the matrix world (ie) equations which approximates real world objects like trees,buildings etc. He was able to cause fluctuations in these codes. Note that Neo's power as the One raised from simply flying and stopping bulletes to that of supersonic flying power which could drag every car and truck behind him.

3. Neo realized that he has become a part of the machine-world because of his orange-code-vision. (But Neo still had his eyes, so when he saw Bane, he was simplying seeing Bane and not the Smith behind Bane (or) may be WB flawed in this part !). So Neo was able to sense the incoming sentinels at the end of M2. Neo's power evolved here too. Neo has powers in the machine world equal to that of a program ("though the process has altered your consciousness, you still remain irrevocably human"). Note that the architect has some degree of control over the machines in the machine world (He let the others go, implying that he stopped the squiddies from attacking zion).

So Neo thought he would control the sentinels just like a powerful program. He TOUCHED the source and stopped all the squiddies. Note that the source can control all the sentinels. Neo used the source against itself. The source knew that Neo was'nt a part of the machine-world. So it punished him with another mind-makes-it-real death. But like the other two times, Neo evaded his death again and his mind landed on Mobil Ave accidentally. Mobil-Ave is not in machine's control (an illegal link between the two worlds). So the source was not successful in killing Neo. Now that Neo has survived another mental death, he has greater degree of mind control. It enabled him to control the source to a few extent successfully. He used the source to command the sentinels.

Neo ---> Source ---> Sentinels

Thats how he prematurely triggered those fleet of tow bombs.

this is much better than the first one to me. heh.

very polished theory, but what abt the main problem : how did a sentinel pass through neo? because he touched the source and converted it to magic dust? is the 'human world' a matrix? then this is just the MwaM theory, with new underwear. but u say 'real world'. then how does neo communicate between the 'real world' and the machine world? so its the old wi-fi theory?

as for the Sentinel passing through Neo, i have one theory...when Bane/Smith is killed, his gold aura just doesn't blink out, it sticks aorund for a little bit then bursts, right?

well, it could be that Neo killed that Sentinel, and it's aura continued on for a second (inertia?) and collided with Neo.

or, it could be B.I.L.C. *L*

i agree, it would indeed make more sence that thier is a matrix within the matrix, however:
Smith was took over bane, and took over him in "the real world" i think that smith was downloaded into banes brain, if this is true, then neos powers were downloaded also, but yet again that cannot be possible without a matrix within a matrix

yes...yes it can. you have to remember that Neo and crew aren't 100% human.

how so?
why arent they?
because the can jump high, dodge bullets etc?
according to the first film they are able to do these things because they know the matrix is just a computer program, wheras people who havent been unplugged do not ...

yes, we know that. i mean outside the Matrix. humans aren't born anymore, they're grown...and while they're developing, the machines lace the human body with bits and pieces to make integration complete with both the Matrix and the powergrid.

Quote:

when Bane/Smith is killed, his gold aura just doesn't blink out, it sticks aorund for a little bit then bursts, right?

not exactly. it remain till bane's head hits the ground, and he dies. so maybe its the bio-electricity which stays on until he's dead, and then disappears. this would also explain how smith could enter a human's mind. jacking into the matrix proves that all of a human's neural processes, which is bioelectricity, can be converted into code. smith just did the opposite. and that would also explain how neo stopped the sentinels - he said he 'feels' them, just like he felt smith and the machine city. so he stopped the sentinels by some mucking around with the bio-electric field. remember, they're powered by human bio-electricity, just like the whole of the machine city. so that explains everything, except neo being permeable, doesnt it?

btw we dont have to bother with explaining exactly HOW neo interacts with the bio-electric fields

ralph_angelus wrote:

so that explains everything, except neo being permeable, doesnt it?

don't see why not. the left over aura of the destroyed sentinel isn't actually attached to a big honkin' piece of metal anymore, so i don't see why (on the course it was flying) it shouldn't be able to fly through Neo, seeing as how it's intangible to normal senses. Neo, with his altered perception, can see and feel the leftovers. we're not sure, though, because he don't touch Smith after Smith goes kablooey.

permeability of fields...hmm. depends on what kind of field it isn, don't it? if it's pure EMF, then it's odd that Neo would be permeable. however, we don't know that, nor do we know how a "machine spirit" would carry on without a carrier...because without a generator (or magnet, whatever), there is no EMF. so...what is it?

Come on people....not EVERYTHING we see in the movies is there with a secret hidden meaning. Some things are there because they look cool. Don't try to find secred meanings in the scene where Neo kills Bane....I mean, he died the way he died because it looked cool on screen!

we know that!
but the matrix trilogy has been put here to help us better understand ourselves!
the matrix has provided a path to plausable thoerys as answers to questions we fear to ask.

i have a somewhat interesting thoery abot noes powers,
this theory came to me in a revelation, so please bear with me ...

the oracle told neo that he wasnt the one, however neos powers only really became focused only after he had the cookie, so this could emphasise that neos code was strengthened/enhanced by the cookie that she gave him.

I agree with a lot of that.

I my thoughts on how he stopped them is the simple fact that he is The One. He is human buy has machine traits like all of the Matrix born humans do. (Plugs and such.) Seeing that he is The One, he can use that to touch the source and force the sentinals to die/burn up/ explode or whatever it was they did. But, I do not agree with the punishment thing. I think his mind was just not ready for that big of a shock. He had not totally gained all of the powers of the One and did not understand everything yet. Thus, he goes into a coma.

"You should be dead, but obviously you were not ready for that either."

the cookie may have downloaded his power,
and when the time was right activated them.
there is a time for everything, same as neo's death,
there was a time for it, hence ther must have been a time for his powers to surface.

Back to the sentenel flying thru neo... Well since that sentenel didn't destroy the ship while flying towards neos we must assume that just its code made it that far... no other explanations are needed.

yet another explanation could be Chi. in many martial arts chi is believed to be a very important, like a life force, spirite, another interpretation of aura.

many people that have had an arm or a leg amputated said that after the operation, they have felt a itchy or tingling sensation on the amputated limb. some believe that this is because our aura, chi, stays with us for a while longer.

this could be the answer for 3 things:
- bane's aura not going away as soon as he died.
- the permeable neo. the bombs aura passed through him only.
- neo having gold 'code' vision.

i agree with the near death experiences stated in the theory above, yet it could be incomplete. the architect said: though the process has altered your consciousness, you still remain irrevocably human.

in martial arts rigurous workouts, dicipline, and especially meditation are necesary to achive a greater consciousness and therefore gain greater control of your chi (aura, or life force). tibetan monks can raise their body temperatures on demand (when needed). have you ever seen Bruce Lee's one inch punch? he said that he evisioned his chi going through his opponent, not just hitting him.

it could be that Neo, through all his near death experiences, gained a better understanding of Chi. his consciousness was altered with effects not only inside the matrix, but in the real world also.

when neo lost the use of his eyes, his mind took over and, for the first time, began to feel all the chi around him. that explains the gold 'code' or 'chi'. it being gold color could have been just a cool special effect to show this.

I'm still putting together my thoughts on how Neo stopped those sentinels... and some preliminary indications are that it was not code he was stopping, but he was somehow manipulating or governing the software that was controlling the sentinels... or that he was projecting an energy that was making "sand" out of "stones..."

Deep wrote:

some preliminary indications are that it was not code he was stopping, but he was somehow manipulating or governing the software that was controlling the sentinels...

wouldn't "governing software" be the same thing (in essence) as "code" or "machine chi"?

Its so easy ! A machine has a body and a mind (like us). The metallic parts make the machine's body and the program which controls the machine makes its mind. The sentinel's intention was to go right through Neo's body. But before it can do it, Neo SPLIT its mind from its body. Neo did this "splitting" to himself once accidentally (at the end of M2), but now he has mastered this technique. Neo knows how to split a mind from the body. He used this trick against the sentinel. So the robot-body stayed dead at a safe distance out of the ship, but the mind continued its objective of going into Neo. The sentinel's program/mind went through Neo's body but it could'nt cause any physical harm. Note that ONLY the program went through Neo, not the machine (thats why it is shown in orange codes).

i like my answer better.

HAH!

i like my answer better too.

i dont think it was his intention to split the machines mind from it's body. i just happened. i was a side effect.

scientheist wrote:

A machine has a body and a mind (like us). The metallic parts make the machine's body and the program which controls the machine makes its mind. The sentinel's program/mind went through Neo's body but it could'nt cause any physical harm. Note that ONLY the program went through Neo, not the machine (thats why it is shown in orange codes).

i can accept neo messing around with the electromagnetic field/bio-electric field. but how can u seperate a sentinel's mind from its body? its just electrical impulses, program, as u say. how can a program, ie, EM radiation be made to 'seperate' from a machine? in neo's case we can say that he transmitted a signal using only stuff in his body. but how so in the case of a machine? signals can be transmitted, but u cant seperate software from hardware. i dont think the w's would put that scene there for such a stupid reason.

Think in terms of A.I. Ralph. I'm not saying that I support the separation of sentinel-mind-and-body theory, but if humans can do it, so should a highly evolved A.I.

I think your spending to much time trying to put in to physical terms a spiritual event. Remember these movies are steeped in metaphysical, spiritual, precognative and psychical powers and happenings!

Mind and body separation (Neo seperates mind from body in Mobil)
ESP (Neos 6th sense of the machines and extraodinary sight of them)
Telepathy (Neos Connection with Trinity)
Precognition (The Oracles premonitions)
Telekinesis (Neo stops the Sentinals)
The spiritual aspects of Neos Life as a representation of Jesus and Buddha etc.

All this Orange Matrix crap is just that - Crap! I think the machines are connected to a network of sorts and they communicate with each other. They use some type of wireless technology to do this as well as interact with the matrix just as the hover ships do. But that does not mean that it is a Matrix in itself. There is not a shred of evidence for this.

As for the source punishing Neo when he touched the source - that is laughable. Where do you get an idea such as this.

Also the idea of mind death is not relevant either. Neo dies only one time in the Matrix and that is at the end of M1 when smith shoots him. He is brought back by his realization of love for Trinity. That bond brings him back and not any other thing. It is an underlying factor throughtout all the movies - Commitment to self and cause and love. That is the very source of the Anomaly of the matrix. Unpredictable humans placed into a predictable environment. They are the unstable element in a perfect dream world. The very thing that makes us human causes the matrix to crash and baffles the machines. That is what gives Neo his power, not some code floating in his head or attached to him and not some stupid cookie. These are all wild conclusions based in no fact.

Just look at the movies and take them for what they are. A spiritual and emotional journey set in the fantastic world of the future where machines rule the world and are struggling with their own emerging emotions and evolution.

As for smith and Neos parrallel and emerging powers. Smith gains the ability to "Jack" into the human mind just as Neo gains the ability to "see" the machines mind. Its metaphysical in nature and can not be explained except by the expansion and evolution of the mind - both man and machine. They have gained extended consciousness. They are a representation of dark and light, good and evil. Together they make one.

I love the Chi thoughts. I think you are right on track. Keep up the good work.

Starbuck